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I love dharmic religions

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
My understanding of hell is that it is a state of consciousness where humans suffer, even in this life on earth.
Heaven is also a state of consciousness but not of suffering, only be glory and peace.
Both is possible to realise in this life time.

Hell and heaven exist in this world, but are not clear to all. After death, they are augmented, but still not clear to all. Only day of judgment is reality augmented to it's full proof view, and no one doubts, and hell and heaven take only full form after that.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Hell also due to magic of Iblis is enjoyed in intoxication from his sorcery in this world. That is the True Dunya we be warned about.

While heaven is surrounded by what we hate.

It's not easy a trial, but those who love God and pray to him, will find their way if they are sincere.
 

Samael_Khan

Goosebender
It's forever per Quran to my understanding. Some people try to twist through all those verses, but it's obvious it is per Quran by what I witness.

Sufi and Irfan type Shiites often see it as temporary depending, some do, some don't.

Since human life is limited in most cases to under 100 years, would you say it is fair that people should be punished for eternity because of their ignorance or even their negative deeds?

I will ignore the temporary hell punishment concept for now.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Since human life is limited in most cases to under 100 years, would you say it is fair that people should be punished for eternity because of their ignorance or even their negative deeds?

I will ignore the temporary hell punishment concept for now.

What is a good deed, bought traveling towards God. What is an evil deed, but traveling away from God.

If we are traveling towards God, we will be rewarded by a pace depending on our deeds as well as God's grace and intercession of some servants of God.

If we are traveling away from God, the punishment will amplify depending on how pace away from God.

Because God's Eternal light has been mixed with that of time, this how deeds are accounted for.

Every deed is either running away from God or towards him. This is why before we eat, we remember God's Name and wish to do it per his light and face, so that we do everything including eating for God.

Not only are they of a forever nature, because it's either aimed towards God or away. They take on infinite forms, just different gates of hell will have a different pace and type of punishments, but they all take on multiplying and doubling and redoubling.

And rewards are not finite, but forever, the pace towards God.
 

Sand Dancer

Crazy Cat Lady
My first introduction to Hinduism is...ha, it's kind of embarrassing, but it was "The Idiot's Guide to Hinduism". I loved it. I devoured it, wanting to learn more and more.

Those are great books, don't be embarrassed. I use them too.
 

Destin

New Member
I neither agree nor disagree. I simply believe the reason people shop at the world of religion is. Yahweh's spiritual way it's too hard and choosing other man made religions give people some wiggle room to do what they desire.
 

Samael_Khan

Goosebender
What is a good deed, bought traveling towards God. What is an evil deed, but traveling away from God.

If we are traveling towards God, we will be rewarded by a pace depending on our deeds as well as God's grace and intercession of some servants of God.

If we are traveling away from God, the punishment will amplify depending on how pace away from God.

Because God's Eternal light has been mixed with that of time, this how deeds are accounted for.

Every deed is either running away from God or towards him. This is why before we eat, we remember God's Name and wish to do it per his light and face, so that we do everything including eating for God.

Not only are they of a forever nature, because it's either aimed towards God or away. They take on infinite forms, just different gates of hell will have a different pace and type of punishments, but they all take on multiplying and doubling and redoubling.

And rewards are not finite, but forever, the pace towards God.

This doesn't make sense, because of our limited lifespan, therefore rewards and punishments should be finite. It would make more sense for reward and punishment to be finite, and then the person gets reincarnated with memories intact in a new form on earth, to go through the process of living and then punishment or reward again. Another alternative is that a person ceases to exist after reward or punishment. That is if justice means equal reward and punishment for your deeds.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
I think the OP once told me, they deem that his mercy must prevail his wrath and retributive justice. And so they don't believe that this is possible if hell is forever, in which is the case for Islam for a lot of people (disbelievers in general, though some non-Muslims are exempt if they have no means to faith or disbelief).

They probably see it too much wrath and not enough mercy that God punishes people for not being guided to his proper religion.
I don't believer in retributive justice, because I don't believe in retribution at all. I don't believe God gets any payback from punishing us at all. He intends for all of us to return to His presence someday, but for some, the process will just be longer and harder than it will be for others. This is due to the fact that their life choices will hold them back from attaining their full potential as quickly as they otherwise might. At any rate, I see us as being eternal beings, and I don't see reincarnation as being in any way essential for us to progress to become what God wants us to become. In other words, I will always be me, and I don't have to live a life as either another human being or another life form in order to fulfill my destiny.
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I love dharmic religions. Why? Because of the teachings of karma and reincarnation is common sense.
The law of karma and reincarnation make also sense since it is both justice and mercy.
If God/ Gods really is both justice and love then reincarnation has to be true. And in the dharmic religions it is more important to be a good person than to believe in God/gods

Any thoughts? What do you think about what I wrote? Do you agree or disgree?
I don't believe in reincarnation. I accept occasional psychological interpretations of karma ─ sometimes people do generate by their actions a result that's "what they deserve", though much more often they don't.

But I'm with you on the important things ─ justice, mercy, love, inclusion, decency.
 

mangalavara

सो ऽहम्
Premium Member
I love dharmic religions.

That makes two of us. :)

Why? Because of the teachings of karma and reincarnation is common sense.

I would say the doctrine of karma is common sense. Both karma and reincarnation, from my perspective, make wonderful sense of life, the world, and everything.

In North American culture, when people speak of karma, what they have in mind is 'What goes around comes around.' In other words, what you do to others will come back to either benefit or harm you, and it depends on what you did. On the other hand, Hindu scriptures speak of the doctrine of karma differently. Karma is the doctrine that you become what you do. For example, in this life, if you uphold dharma and worship devas, your next human life might be as a Brahmin or priest. If you are an excellent Brahmin, your next life might be one where you have a divine body in a higher world. So then, a focus on divine things and acting in accordance with divinity would lead you to divinity. Similarly, focusing on sense gratification and being very lazy and irresponsible might result in your next human life being a miserly one. The life after that might be one of a house pet. So then, being overly focused on sense gratification and acting like a lowly animal would lead you to being a lowly animal. While merit and demerit are not the same thing as karma, they are tied to it and reincarnation.

If God/ Gods really is both justice and love then reincarnation has to be true.

I agree. It does not make sense to give a person an everlasting reward or an everlasting punishment for a temporal deed. After a person of much merit lives for aeons in a heavenly world, that person will return to this world. Similarly, a person of much demerit who lives for aeons in a hellish world will return to this one. Not only does this make sense in light of justice, it makes sense in light of the truth that creation will not give us eternal satisfaction. A person who lives in a heavenly world will eventually grow tired or bored with it. There is something infinitely better: oneness with God, who is uncreated.

And in the dharmic religions it is more important to be a good person than to believe in God/gods

Yes. We can believe in God's existence all we want, but if we choose not to do his will, are we dear to him? No.

My first introduction to Hinduism is...ha, it's kind of embarrassing, but it was "The Idiot's Guide to Hinduism". I loved it. I devoured it, wanting to learn more and more.

Ah, yes. Linda Johnsen's The Complete Idiot's Guide to Hinduism. I've read it once. I recommend it to anyone who would read only one book about Hinduism. :)
 
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firedragon

Veteran Member
Very often the insights one receives, no matter which religion it is, makes one like it better. So what comes first, the insights, or the liking?

Its subjective.

Objectively, islamic teaching is to use your reason, not just what you are "liking".
 

halbhh

The wonder and awe of "all things".
I love dharmic religions. Why? Because of the teachings of karma and reincarnation is common sense.
The law of karma and reincarnation make also sense since it is both justice and mercy.
If God/ Gods really is both justice and love then reincarnation has to be true. And in the dharmic religions it is more important to be a good person than to believe in God/gods

Any thoughts? What do you think about what I wrote? Do you agree or disgree?
What causes that reincarnation?

That's God. Another name for God is the "ground of being". Or simply existence itself --

"Moses said to God, “Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ Then what shall I tell them?”...

God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I AM has sent me to you.’”
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
We are talking about philosophy of Islam with respect to hell. In this philosophy, you have to say, say God did provide proof, would it be right or wrong for God to punish for turning away from his proofs and guidance?
No rambling, no fooling around. I said what proof do you have for the existence of your God and for Mohammad being his messenger? I ask a straight question and I will welcome a straight answer.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
The Hindu concept of Justice and Mercy only makes rational sense IF people remember their past lives. Since people do not, there might be mercy, but certainly no justice is served because people do not remember their past lives, so one is basically punishing a new person with a recycled soul. (People should let me know if I am misunderstanding something here.)
:D Your question is valid. Some Hindus would say that your mind may not remember past lives but your soul (atma) will remember it.
At least, Hinduism bases its justice on the deeds of a person and not on his belief in this God or that God. It is fair to all.
Well, I am a total atheist and have rejected even the possibility of there being any God or humans having any soul which reincarnates after death. You can say that I am a total goner.
 

Clara Tea

Well-Known Member
I love dharmic religions. Why? Because of the teachings of karma and reincarnation is common sense.
The law of karma and reincarnation make also sense since it is both justice and mercy.
If God/ Gods really is both justice and love then reincarnation has to be true. And in the dharmic religions it is more important to be a good person than to believe in God/gods

Any thoughts? What do you think about what I wrote? Do you agree or disgree?

The Dharmic religion believed in reincarnation before the famous psychic, Edgar Cayce, did. Cayce didn't want to believe a lot of things of his visions. He had been raised a Christian, and many of the beliefs didn't gibe. Yet, he could not doubt that his visions came true. He did things like predict where to find the cure for a rare disease (bottle on an obscure shelf in an obscure drug store in an obscure town), and the cure worked. Cayce didn't want to believe in Atlantis, or aliens from other planets, but he was forced to believe because all of the other things came true.

Karma obviously works. For example, if you abandon belief in God and defy God's commands, bad things will happen. God tells us things for a reason. In Revelation (New Testament, Christian religion), it said that if anyone attacks Babylon, Iraq, God's wrath will be horrible. For example, Revelation 15 says that there will be 7 plagues if Iraq is attacked.

Karma also works by supporting the wrong president. The result is wars, torture camps, bankrupt economy (outsourced jobs, debt), lies, etc. Of course they blame the past president and next president for their own faults. Karma is a package deal....vote for this candidate, and get all of the horrible things that this candidate will bring to bear (and there are a lot of things).

Christians believe that if you do bad things, you will go to hell. In hell, you meet souls who also did bad things. So, Karma works by making you rub shoulders with other bad people.
 

Clara Tea

Well-Known Member
Hell and heaven exist in this world, but are not clear to all. After death, they are augmented, but still not clear to all. Only day of judgment is reality augmented to it's full proof view, and no one doubts, and hell and heaven take only full form after that.

Before death, afterlife is a speculation (unless you consult a psychic). After death, the afterlife is a certainty. It is much like quantum mechanic's Schroedinger's Cat (a cat locked in a box with a deadly poison that might or might not kill the cat in a given amount of time....so you can calculate a probability that it is still alive or dead). But, after the box is opened, it is revealed that the cat is either dead or alive (it is a certainty).

It is odd that your religion already solved the Schroedinger's Cat dilemma, though it took some of the greatest minds in modern physics until modern times to come to the same conclusion. Again....you are brilliant.
 

Clara Tea

Well-Known Member
:D Your question is valid. Some Hindus would say that your mind may not remember past lives but your soul (atma) will remember it.
At least, Hinduism bases its justice on the deeds of a person and not on his belief in this God or that God. It is fair to all.
Well, I am a total atheist and have rejected even the possibility of there being any God or humans having any soul which reincarnates after death. You can say that I am a total goner.

If a soul is reincarnated, the past life is usually (though not always) forgotten. I wonder when the lapse in memory occurs? Do we forget our past life when we enter heaven? If so, there is no grand reunion with dead husbands, dogs, friends, etc. Maybe a soul's memory is wiped out just before they depart heaven to be reincarnated again.

When rapturing to heaven, I'll reach down and grab your collar (you're coming with me....so stick close).
 

Clara Tea

Well-Known Member
My first introduction to Hinduism is...ha, it's kind of embarrassing, but it was "The Idiot's Guide to Hinduism". I loved it. I devoured it, wanting to learn more and more.

I am in training to become an idiot savant. I still need a small amount of extra training to get the idiot part, then I can start on the savant part. May I borrow your book?
 
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