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The real cause of Islamic terrorism

niranjan

Member
Here is an excerpt from the Indian spiritual genius and savant Swami Vivekananda’s (1863-1902) book ‘ Raja Yoga’.

" We find , in studying history, one fact held in common by all the great teachers of religion the world ever had . They all claim to have got their truths from beyond, only many of them did not know where they got them from. For instance, one would say that an angel came down in the form of a human being, with wings, and said to him, “Hear, O man, this is the message”.Another says that a Deva, a bright being, appeared to him. A third says he dreamed that his ancestor came and told him certain things. He did not know anything beyond that .But this is common that all claim that this knowledge has come to them from beyond, not through their reasoning power. What does the science of Yoga teach? It teaches that they were right in claiming that all this knowledge came to them from beyond reasoning, but that it came from within themselves.
The Yogi teaches that the mind itself has a higher state of existence, beyond reason, a superconscious state, and when the mind gets to that higher state,then this knowledge, beyond reasoning, comes to man . Metaphysical and transcendental knowledge comes to that man .This state of going beyond reason, transcending ordinary human nature, may sometimes come by chance to a man who does not understand its science; he , as it were, stumbles upon it. When he stumbles upon it, he generally interprets it as coming from outside. So this explains why an inspiration, or transcendental knowledge, may be the same in different countries, but in one country it will seem to come through an angel, and in another through a Deva, and in a third through God. What does it mean? It means that the mind brought the knowledge by its own nature, and that the finding of the knowledge was interpreted according to the belief and education of the person through whom it came. The real fact is that these various men, as it were, stumbled upon this superconscious state.
The Yogi says there is a great danger in stumbling upon this state. In a good many cases there is the danger of the brain being deranged, and , as a rule, you will find that all those men, however great they were, who had stumbled upon this superconscious state, without understanding it, groped in the dark, and generally had, along with their knowledge, some quaint superstition. They opened themselves to hallucinations. Mohammed claimed that the Angel Gabriel came to him in a cave one day and took him on the heavenly horse, Harak, and he visited the heavens. But with all that , Mohammed spoke some wonderful truths. If you read the Koran, you find the most wonderful truths mixed with superstitions. How will you explain it? That man was inspired, no doubt, but that inspiration was, as it were, stumbled upon. He was not a trained Yogi, and did not know the reason of what he was doing. Think of the good Mohammed did to the world, and think of the great evil that has been done through his fanaticism! Think of the millions massacred through his teachings, mothers bereft of their children, children made orphans, whole countries destroyed, millions upon millions of people killed!
So we see this danger by studying the lives of great teachers like Mohammed and others. Yet we find, at the same time , that they were all inspired. Whenever a prophet got into the superconscious state by heightening his emotional nature, he brought away from it not only some truths, but some fanaticism also, some superstition which injured the world as much as the greatness of the teaching helped. To get any reason out of the mass of incongruity we call human life, we have to transcend our reason, but we must do it scientifically , slowly, by regular practice, and we must cast off all superstition .We must take up the study of the superconscious state just as any other science. On reason we must have to lay our foundation, we must follow reason as far as it leads, and when reason fails, reason itself will show us the way to the highest plane. When you hear a man say, “I am inspired” , and then talk irrationally, reject it. Why? Because these three states-instinct, reason, and superconsciousness , or the unconscious, conscious, and superconscious states-belong to one and the same mind. There are not three minds in one man, but one state of it develops into the others. Instinct develops into reason, and reason into the transcendental consciousness; therefore, not one of the states contradicts the others. Real inspiration never contradicts reason, but fulfils it. Just as you find the great prophets saying, “ I come not to destroy but to fulfil” , so inspiration always comes to fulfil reason, and is in harmony with it."
 

niranjan

Member
These prophets were not unique; they were men as you or I. They were great Yogis. They had gained this superconsciousness, and you and I can get the same. They were not peculiar people. The very fact that one man ever reached that state proves that it is possible for every man to do so. Not only is it possible, but every man must, eventually, get to that state, and that is religion.
--Swami Vivekananda
 

niranjan

Member
Here is an another excerpt from Swami Vivekananda's 'Raja Yoga' dealing with the subject of superconsciousness or enlightenment.
"When I eat food, I do it consciously; when I assimilate it, I do it unconsciously. When the food is manufactured into blood, it is done unconsciously.When out of the blood all the different parts of my body are strengthened , it is done unconsciously. And yet it is I who am doing all this; there cannot be twenty people in this one body. How do I know that I do it, and nobody else?It may be urged that my business is only in eating and assimilating the food, and that strengthening the body by the food is done for me by somebody else. That cannot be, because it can be demonstrated that almost every action of which we are now unconscious can be brought up to the plane of consciousness. The heart is beating apparently without our control. None of us here can control the heart; it goes on its own way. But by practice men can bring even the heart under control, until it will beat at will, slowly, or quickly, or almost stop. Nearly every part of the body can be brought under control. What does this show? That the functions which are beneath consciousness are also performed by us, only we are doing it unconsciously.
We have, then,two planes in which the human mind works. First is the conscious plane , in which all work is always accompanied with the feeling of egoism. Next comes the unconscious plane, where all work is unaccompanied by the feeling of egoism. That part of mind-work which is unaccompanied with the feeling of egoism is unconscious work, and that part which is accompanied with the feeling of egoism is conscious work. In the lower animals this unconscious work is called instinct. In higher animals, and in the highest of all animals, man, what is called conscious work prevails.
But it does not end here. There is a still higher plane upon which the mind can work. It can go beyond consciousness. Just as, unconscious work is beneath consciousnes, so there is another work which is above consciousness and which also is not accompanied with the feeling of egoism. The feeling of egoism is only on the middle plane. When the mind is above or below that plane, there is no feeling of "I", and yet the mind works. When the mind goes beyond this line of self-consciousness, it is called Samadhi, or superconsciousness. How , for instance, do we know that a man in Samadhi has not gone below consciousness, has not degenerated instead of going higher?In both cases the works are unaccompanied with egoism. The answer is, by the effects, by the results of the work, we know that which is below, and that which is above. When a man goes into deep sleep, he enters a plane beneath consciousness. He works the body all the time, he breathes , he moves the body, perhaps , in his sleep, without any unaccompanying feeling of ego; he is unconscious, and when he returns from his sleep, he is the same man who went into it. The sum total of the knowledge which he had before he went into the sleep remains the same; it does not increase at all. No enlightenment comes. But when a man goes into Samadhi, if he goes into it a fool, he comes out a sage.
What makes the difference? From one state a man comes out the very same man that he went in , and from another state the man comes out enlightened, a sage, a prophet, a saint, his whole character changed, his life changed, illumined. These are the two effects. Now the effects being different, the causes must be different. As this illumination with which a man comes back from Samadhi is much higher than can be got by reasoning in a conscious state, it must , therefore, be superconsciousness, and Samadhi is called the superconscious state."
 

Laila

Active Member
Solution to Islamic terrorism: be more Islamic.
If terrorists were more 'Islamic' they would never be terrorists in the first place. The term 'Islamic terrorist' is an oxymoron. Any so called 'Islamic' terrorist has truly not comprehended Islam.
 

Booko

Deviled Hen
It's pretty convenient to put such comments about Islam and Muhammad here in the Hinduism forum, where no one can debate you about it.

I don't suppose you'd care to mention the slaughter of Muslims being done in the name of Hinduism. :sarcastic
 

xexon

Destroyer of Worlds
Islamic terrorism is directly related to US meddling in the affairs of Middle Eastern countries.

Don't kid yourself, this has gone on for many decades now, and people have had enough of it. Most of it for oil's sake. The flip side is our continuing support of Israel, despite it's human rights record towards Arabs.

Oil and Israel.

Know this.


x
 

john313

warrior-poet
They opened themselves to hallucinations. Mohammed claimed that the Angel Gabriel came to him in a cave one day and took him on the heavenly horse, Harak, and he visited the heavens
gabriel has a physical body just like humans. sometimes people describe things with "strage" descriptions when the words to [sysonym of describe] them to his followers do not exist.

Think of the good Mohammed did to the world, and think of the great evil that has been done through his fanaticism! Think of the millions massacred through his teachings, mothers bereft of their children, children made orphans, whole countries destroyed, millions upon millions of people killed!
can you back that up with any quotes from muhammad in correct context? if you are going to post something saying he is responsible for millions of deaths, you could at least do that much. but please post them in a debate section.
once his teachings are taken out of context, they are no longer his teachings.

These prophets were not unique; they were men as you or I. They were great Yogis. They had gained this superconsciousness, and you and I can get the same. They were not peculiar people. The very fact that one man ever reached that state proves that it is possible for every man to do so. Not only is it possible, but every man must, eventually, get to that state, and that is religion.
--Swami Vivekananda
i think this is a great quote, but it contradicts the first post about muhammad teaching evil. unless you think that is what great yogis teach.

peace


 

xexon

Destroyer of Worlds
Yogis don't really believe in evil as many do, they merely see it as the far end of a spectrum.

The message itself has no real difference, only in the way it is worded according to the culture that produces it.

The path itself never changes form, but it is decorated according to the season.



x
 

john313

warrior-poet
perhaps the words "...unless you think great yogis teach that we should massacre and murder innocent people." would be more appropriate when speaking on that level of perception. i was using his words "...the great evil...".
i was under the assumption that the author has not perceived that level yet based on the content of the statement. if he had, he would understand that there is no problem with islam or the teachings of muhammad, the problem is with those falsely calling themselves muslims. like laila said above, "The term 'Islamic terrorist' is an oxymoron". but then on a higher level of course, there is no problem at all.

peace
 

niranjan

Member
Booko said:
It's pretty convenient to put such comments about Islam and Muhammad here in the Hinduism forum, where no one can debate you about it.

I don't suppose you'd care to mention the slaughter of Muslims being done in the name of Hinduism. :sarcastic

I condemn fanaticism , fundamentalism and dogmatism anywhere in all forms.
You seem to be referring to the Gujarat riots where about 2000 muslims were killed, and in the Mumbai riots where 3000 muslims were killed. These are the only riots that had taken place in India in a long time. And in both cases , these riots were started by the muslims , which you overlook.
You also overlook the fact that Aurangzeb, Babar, Mahmud of Ghazni, had in their campaigns in India slaughtered thousands of hindus and sikhs and buddhists , simply due to the fact they were not willing to embrace Islam. What do you have to say about this?
I do not wish to take sides, but it is a fact that the Bahais, Zoroastrians, Hindus,Jains, Buddhists, and Sikhs had been victims of Islamic terrorism.
 

niranjan

Member
john313 said:
can you back that up with any quotes from muhammad in correct context? if you are going to post something saying he is responsible for millions of deaths, you could at least do that much. but please post them in a debate section.
once his teachings are taken out of context, they are no longer his teachings.



Google Islamic terrorism verses and you will find the answers you need.
 

Booko

Deviled Hen
niranjan said:
I do not wish to take sides, but it is a fact that the Bahais, Zoroastrians, Hindus,Jains, Buddhists, and Sikhs had been victims of Islamic terrorism.

As a Baha'i, I'm well aware what fanatical Muslims have done to my fellows.

However, we recognize that this is not Muhammad's fault, but the fault of people who have become fanatics.

Like Laila said, the solution to Islamic fanaticism is for Muslims to be better Muslims.

Fanaticism in religion is hardly unique to Islam. It seems to happen in pretty much every religion once it reaches a certain age.
 

Booko

Deviled Hen
niranjan said:
Google Islamic terrorism verses and you will find the answers you need.

Great idea! Let's Google "Hindu nationalists" and see what turns up!

Hm...assassinations in the name of Hinduism:
http://www.ishipress.com/mohandas.htm

Oh, here's a nice one:
Thousands of people have lost their lives in the numerous religious wars that have marked India’s history; murderous conflicts have broken out time and again between the Hindu majority and the Muslim minority. But this time, the Gujarat massacre goes beyond interreligious squabbling: it gives indications of a new government-condoned strategy based on ethnic cleansing.

Full story: http://www.alternatives.ca/article231.html

Here's one in a series:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/3478687.stm

Or:
[FONT=verdana,arial,sans-serif] Why does Hindu nationalism take an aggressive, exclusive form? This is a question of psychology as well as politics. Rajeev Bhargava, in New Delhi, examines the worldview of activists who use ‘Indianness’ as a weapon against their Muslim, Christian, and secular fellow-citizens.[/FONT]

http://www.opendemocracy.net/democracy/article_1566.jsp

Oh, and here's PDF that's definitely worth a read:
The implications of the increasing success of the Hindu nationalist movement are massive, both for India and for global tolerance of human rights violations.
Full article here:
http://www.bard.edu/institutes/bgia/journal/vol4/45-47.pdf


It looks like your claim that "it's all the Muslims' fault" doesn't stand up to scrutiny too well after all.


[FONT=verdana,arial,sans-serif][/FONT]
 

Hema

Sweet n Spicy
Niranjan Ji, I am a Hindu and I know what the Moguls did to India. I know how they tried to take away Hinduism from my ancestors. I know that texts like the Ramayan had to be adapted to seem like a mere story just so that the Moguls would leave it alone. For this reason, Hanumanji was portrayed as a monkey. Hanumanji is so close to my heart. He is like my big brother. It makes me so mad to know that all of this happened.

However, what the Moguls did and what Islamic terrorists did are not a reflection of the true nature of Islam. I have a few Muslim friends and Islam is really a peaceful religion. When people of a certain religion do awful things like these, the true followers are wrongly stereotyped.
 

Wandered Off

Sporadic Driveby Member
niranjan said:
What does the science of Yoga teach? It teaches that they were right in claiming that all this knowledge came to them from beyond reasoning, but that it came from within themselves.
Interesting. Unless I'm misreading it, Yoga seems to share Deism's suspicion of externally "revealed" religions, at least to a point. Do Hindus teach that their revelation came from within? Sorry for the basic question, but I'm woefully unfamiliar with Hinduism, or even whether Yoga and Hinduism are aligned.
 

Hema

Sweet n Spicy
Wandered Off said:
Interesting. Unless I'm misreading it, Yoga seems to share Deism's suspicion of externally "revealed" religions, at least to a point. Do Hindus teach that their revelation came from within? Sorry for the basic question, but I'm woefully unfamiliar with Hinduism, or even whether Yoga and Hinduism are aligned.

Hinduism began with the Vedas. The Vedas were not created by any human being. The Vedas are revealed knowledge given directly from God to the first Saints and Sages on earth. The Vedas are Shruti texts, Shruti literally means "what is heard". The other texts in Hinduism are Smriti, which literally means, "what is remembered". Yoga and Hinduism are aligned. There are different types of yoga, eg. Bhakti yoga - devotion for God, Karma yoga - through action, good deeds (think - "To find God, serve humanity", Gyan yoga - acquiring spiritual knowledge etc.
 

Booko

Deviled Hen
Hema said:
There are different types of yoga, eg. Bhakti yoga - devotion for God, Karma yoga - through action, good deeds (think - "To find God, serve humanity", Gyan yoga - acquiring spiritual knowledge etc.

Hema, I would love it if, sometime when you have time, you started a thread just on this.
 

Wandered Off

Sporadic Driveby Member
Hema said:
The Vedas are revealed knowledge given directly from God to the first Saints and Sages on earth.
Thanks, Hema. Does Swami Vivekananda’s statement that "it came from within themselves" mean that God revealed it from within the sages, as opposed to an external revelation of the type claimed in other faiths?
 

niranjan

Member
Booko said:
It looks like your claim that "it's all the Muslims' fault" doesn't stand up to scrutiny too well after all.

As I stated in my previous posts I loathe to take sides . But then again where is it written in all your links that the Gujarat riots and the Mumbai riots were not started by the muslims.
I condemn fanaticism and dogmatism in all religions whatsoever , and I certainly do not support the assassination of Mahatma Gandhi by Godse. Godse, however , had his reasons for killing Gandhi, as he felt that Gandhi's teaching of staunch non-violence , left many hindus defenceless in the face of muslim aggression , as is seen in the Calcutta riots ( which was started by Mohammad Jinnah's declaration of Direct Action , for the creation of an independent muslim state) and also in the partition riots, where thousands of Sikhs and Hindus were killed.
Having said this I again maintain that the assassination of Gandhi was a major tragedy, as is the Calcutta riots and the partition riots.
 

niranjan

Member
Hindu nationalism is a reaction against Islamic fundamentalism and the attempts of Christian missionaries to convert Hindus to Christianity. The Hindus are traumatized by the seperation of Pakistan and Bangladesh (east Pakistan) from India and hence they naturally feel threatened by Islamic fundamentalism and Christian missionary activity in India , which they feel will reduce the Hindus to a minority in their own country. Hence their aggressiveness and exclusiveness. (which I maintain is reactive and not proactive).
However unlike the Christian and Islamic faiths , they never have tried to convert non-Hindus to Hinduism by force or lure of monetary benefits . They are only trying to protect their existing numbers , and they are not trying to increase their numbers.
 
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