Christian Trump Supporters

Kenny · Dec 22, 2021

Quetzal said:
Why and how does someone like Donald Trump corner the Christian vote?

Actually, the Christian vote isn't as homogenous as one would think though. The media has convinced people of that as it was reported that 18% voted for Biden and almost another 2% for other.

However, there would be many factors why they voted for Trump.

Democratic Platform promotes abortion through 9 months
Redefinition of marriage
Religious liberty
Have the mention of God stay in Government
Anti-school choice
promoting of sex in education instead of sex-education

These are probably mitigating circumstances where they may swing towards the Republican vote.

But there are varying opinions on the different points.

ecco · Dec 22, 2021

Socratic Berean said:
For Christian Trump supporters:

Are there any other kind?

Are there any atheist Trump supporters out there? I'd be very surprised.

Quetzal · Dec 22, 2021

KenS said:
Democratic Platform promotes abortion through 9 months

Good post but I think this is the winner. Many Christians that I know (doesn't mean all) are one issue voters on abortion.

ecco · Dec 22, 2021

KenS said:
However, there would be many factors why they voted for Trump.

Democratic Platform promotes abortion through 9 months

Redefinition of marriage

Religious liberty

Have the mention of God stay in Government

Anti-school choice

promoting of sex in education instead of sex-education

That's the propaganda.

Please show where The Democratic Platform promotes abortion through 9 months. A little off-subject, but why do you think the Government should be allowed to interfere between a patient and their doctor?
Marriages provide certain benefits to spouses. I believe it is only fair that these privileges are extended to gay people. I suppose you would prefer that a woman cannot visit her lifelong partner in the hospital.
Please explain (be specific) which religious liberties have been curtailed by the Democrats.
Which god's name should stay in the Government of the USA? Allah? Shiva? Oh, you mean the god you believe in. That's very selfish. Especially since the founding fathers insisted that god stay out of government. Do you know why? Perhaps you need to familiarize yourself with the Hundred Years War. Perhaps you need a refresher on why the Pilgrims and the Puritans fled Europe. It sure wasn't because atheists kicked them out.
Since anyone can send their kids to schools of their choosing (if they can afford the tuition), your comment is nonsensical.
Care to give some examples?

Let's see if you can support your allegations.

We Never Know · Dec 22, 2021

Socratic Berean said:
For Christian Trump supporters: please provide a scripturally-based argument for your decision to back this man (without changing the subject to denigrate any opponent), including an explanation for rejecting scripture that clearly casts this person, based on his speech and actions (past and present), as an unfit ruler.

In my opinion anyone that votes for a president based on christianity or lack of christianity isnt voting for them based on how well they would do their job.

Kenny · Dec 22, 2021

Quetzal said:
Good post but I think this is the winner. Many Christians that I know (doesn't mean all) are one issue voters on abortion.

That is true, though not all.

The one issue position, as I understand it, is that if they won't respect the life of an unborn child, they won't respect pretty much everything.

Quetzal · Dec 22, 2021

KenS said:
That is true, though not all.

The one issue position, as I understand it, is that if they won't respect the life of an unborn child, they won't respect pretty much everything.

Do you agree with that sentiment? I have my own thoughts, but you first!

Socratic Berean · Dec 22, 2021

PureX said:
I don't think there's anyone on RF that would fit your criteria. There are Christian Trump supporters, but I don't think they are assuming Trump is 'God's manservant' or anything. They just think he represents their social-economic agenda better that the democrats.

That is true, but scripture does not instruct us to focus on agendas or policies when evaluating the fitness of a leader.

Socratic Berean · Dec 22, 2021

KenS said:
I agree that I don't agree with John Piper

That is my position too.

So this would vary person to person. Someone may say "You shouldn't vote for Trump because of his language and past".

Another may say, "Language and past is irrelevant when it comes to killing babies in the womb. (scripture - "thou shalt not kill"

For me, who has his own past, killing babies in the womb trumps (no pun intended) is more important than language and past.

Then again, there could be another discussion between people on when is a baby considered a baby... but it is the principle that I am talking about

Yes, but what people say or believe or feel dodges the point: is their support biblical or not when it comes to clear definitions in scripture of fit and unfit rulers. (Trying to legislate hearts, sin, is folly, and that is what people do when they choose a candidate in hopes of furthering a law on what, for most Believers, is a moral issue…especially when they choose a candidate who fits biblical definitions of an unfit ruler in order to try to legislate a sin issue.)

Socratic Berean · Dec 22, 2021

metis said:
There's a LOT more to being pro-life than just the issue of abortion, and this is why I have a problem with so many in the religious right.

Agreed. If Christians focused on adopting children and supporting single pregnant mothers in need as much as they focus on trying to legislate the issue of abortion, we’d have no orphanages in the U.S. and the “pro-life” conversation would be very different.

Quetzal · Dec 22, 2021

Socratic Berean said:
Agreed. If Christians focused on adopting children and supporting single pregnant mothers in need as much as they focus on trying to legislate the issue of abortion, we’d have no orphanages in the U.S. and the “pro-life” conversation would be very different.

I argue that framing the discussion as 'pro life' is not accurate. There is nothing to be done about it now, but framing it that way insinuates that opponents are anti-life or want life to end. That isn't the case.

Socratic Berean · Dec 22, 2021

Left Coast said:
I'm neither a Christian nor a Trump supporter, though this passage (Romans 13) seems relevant:

"Let every person be subject to the governing authorities; for there is no authority except from God, and those authorities that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists authority resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Do you wish to have no fear of the authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive its approval; for it is God’s servant for your good. But if you do what is wrong, you should be afraid, for the authority does not bear the sword in vain! It is the servant of God to execute wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be subject, not only because of wrath but also because of conscience. For the same reason you also pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, busy with this very thing. Pay to all what is due them—taxes to whom taxes are due, revenue to whom revenue is due, respect to whom respect is due, honor to whom honor is due."

This passage stands on its own, but it addresses a different topic: submission to authority, which only comes to power through the permissive will of God (whether it be Biden, Trump, Obama, or other). It does not address the attributes of good and bad leaders, and God’s permissive will has certainly allowed for bad leaders across time and nations.

Socratic Berean · Dec 22, 2021

Quetzal said:
I argue that framing the discussion as 'pro life' is not accurate. There is nothing to be done about it now, but framing it that way insinuates that opponents are anti-life or want life to end. That isn't the case.

Agreed. “Pro-life” voters who are also hawkish on foreign policy and advocate for an expansion of capital punishment seem a bit conflicted.

Socratic Berean · Dec 22, 2021

We Never Know said:
In my opinion anyone that votes for a president based on christianity or lack of christianity isnt voting for them based on how well they would do their job.

There’s a difference between voting “based on Christianity” versus voting based on scriptural definitions (largely found in the pre-Christian Old Testament) of fit and unfit rulers—definitions that are shared by other faiths and modern leadership and management theory.

Left Coast · Dec 22, 2021

Socratic Berean said:
This passage stands on its own, but it addresses a different topic: submission to authority, which only comes to power through the permissive will of God (whether it be Biden, Trump, Obama, or other). It does not address the attributes of good and bad leaders, and God’s permissive will has certainly allowed for bad leaders across time and nations.

The passage is much more assertive in its language than the suggestion that God just "permits" leaders you don't like. Rulers are, "from God," "instituted by God," "God's servants," and resisting them is resisting, "what God has appointed."

The Bible's writers were unfamiliar with democratic elections and Presidents and so on - the Biblical God's preferred form of government is generally monarchy/theocracy. So if the question is who a modern Christian should vote for to be President in a secular democracy, that's really not addressed in the Biblical texts.

Socratic Berean · Dec 22, 2021

Left Coast said:
The passage is much more assertive in its language than the suggestion that God just "permits" leaders you don't like. Rulers are, "from God," "instituted by God," "God's servants," and resisting them is resisting, "what God has appointed."

The Bible's writers were unfamiliar with democratic elections and Presidents and so on - the Biblical God's preferred form of government is generally monarchy/theocracy. So if the question is who a modern Christian should vote for to be President in a secular democracy, that's really not addressed in the Biblical texts.

Scripture is full of examples on how we are to identify and choose sound leaders. Exodus 18:21 is but one of many examples:

“…select capable men from all people—men who fear God, trustworthy men who hate dishonest gain—and appoint them as officials over thousands, hundreds, fifties, and tens.”

Rival · Dec 22, 2021

Left Coast said:
the Biblical God's preferred form of government is generally monarchy/theocracy.

To be fair, the system given in the Torah is for the community to appoint judges. There were even female judges such as Deborah. Israel then demanded a king and God said they'd regret it, so it seems like a concession.

Left Coast · Dec 22, 2021

Socratic Berean said:
Scripture is full of examples on how we are to identify and choose sound leaders. Exodus 18:21 is but one of many examples:

“…select capable men from all people—men who fear God, trustworthy men who hate dishonest gain—and appoint them as officials over thousands, hundreds, fifties, and tens.”

This was an instruction specifically to Moses to individually choose lieutenants for himself, who was the unelected leader of the Israelites directly appointed by God. Far cry from a democratic election.

ecco · Dec 22, 2021

KenS said:
That is true, though not all.

The one issue position, as I understand it, is that if they won't respect the life of an unborn child, they won't respect pretty much everything.

FETUS, Ken. It's a fetus - not a child. Do you know of any fetus that has a social security number? Do you know of any fetus that the IRS will accept as a dependent?

Just because some in your religion changed their mind about what constitutes a human being, doesn't give them or you the right to shove those definitions down the Constitution's throat.

ecco · Dec 22, 2021

Quetzal said:
I argue that framing the discussion as 'pro life' is not accurate. There is nothing to be done about it now, but framing it that way insinuates that opponents are anti-life or want life to end. That isn't the case.

It's all part of the Conservative Religious Propaganda. Pro-Life sounded better than Anti-Abortion.

Of course, the hypocrisy is there for all to see. Death Penalty - that's OK with the Pro-Lifers.

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