How can a believer in a God discuss with an Atheist?

Conscious thoughts said:

Honestly now I am confused

How can a believer discuss with someone about God, when the other person don't even have an understanding of the word God

@Unveiled Artist you answered in an other of my OP's
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How can one discuss different understandings of God if we can not use that word?

This OP is made so non-believers can answer their understanding or lack of understanding of what God is in their understanding.
If God does not exist to you, how can you have so strong opinions about something that in you view does not exist?

And no, this OP is not for you to speak about believers, but it's about YOUR understanding or lack of it when speaking about God in discussions. So now you have to answer, and not ask questions toward OP starter or other believers.

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Like many others atheists i was raised in a religion, in my case church of england. So yes there are atheist's who can know both sides of the argument.

I can understand that believers consider their god to be a real entity, i just wish they could understand that I (and other atheists) don't consider gods as anything more than imagination that can be observed on an MRI scan

Conscious thoughts said:

I am not afraid or fear attack, I ask how they can discuss God when having no clue of or believe God exist.

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Just because someone doesn't believe there are Gods doesn't mean they don't know about the concept or understand the concept.

Most atheists have looked into various religious beliefs and simply found them wanting. It isn't rare for an atheist to know the religious books of a believer better than the believer. Often, they also know the history of the ideas and the historical controversies leading to the current beliefs.

To say they don't have a clue is usually wrong. They have a clue but simply don't agree.

Conscious thoughts said:

So it is impossible for an atheist to discuss topics about God? Why is it that certain believers are "attacked" by atheists for their belief in God, if atheists does not even know what a God is? ( in the form of a higher being)

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Well, one reason that atheists don't know what God is is because theists can't seem to agree amongst themselves.

Is God the first cause? A morality giver? The creator of the universe? The inspirer of ecstatic experiences?

And which God? Yahweh? Allah? Zeus? Ahura Mazda? Thor?

And which theology do you adopt? Positive theology? Negative theology? Universalism?

Which religion do you adopt? Catholicism? Orthodox Christianity? Arianism? Baptist? Sunni? Shiite? Hindu?

From an atheist perspective, there seem to be as many different notions of God as there are different believers: no two people seem to be able to agree.

Then, when we try to pin down the specific meaning one person uses, we are seen as attacking. When we express skepticism, we are seen as attacking. When we ask for evidence, we are seen as attacking.

Conscious thoughts said:

That to means, you listen to what belivers do say

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But then, if you ask for evidence, or questions to clarify, or ask about alternatives, that is seen as an attack.

Conscious thoughts said:

There a probably many reasons for people become non-believers, but how do one lose connection with God?

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Well, often atheists realize that they were simply fooling themselves and that their previous beliefs simply don't seem reasonable any longer. They go from believing to not believing. In that case, the way they would say it is that the initial connection was illusory.

Conscious thoughts said:

Honestly now I am confused

How can a believer discuss with someone about God, when the other person don't even have an understanding of the word God

@Unveiled Artist you answered in an other of my OP's

I wonder why you would think atheists dont know what the word means?
Likely, a lot of atheists will prove to have a broader understanding or experience with what
the word "god " means in people's lives than a
pious member of one sect
How can one discuss different understandings of God if we

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Conscious thoughts said:

Honestly now I am confused

How can a believer discuss with someone about God, when the other person don't even have an understanding of the word God

@Unveiled Artist you answered in an other of my OP's
[

How can one discuss different understandings of God if we can not use that word?

This OP is made so non-believers can answer their understanding or lack of understanding of what God is in their understanding.
If God does not exist to you, how can you have so strong opinions about something that in you view does not exist?

And no, this OP is not for you to speak about believers, but it's about YOUR understanding or lack of it when speaking about God in discussions. So now you have to answer, and not ask questions toward OP starter or other believers.

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Im happy to respond but Im not responsive to being told what I have to do.
Answer if you like but I am curious, why
you want to discuss god(s) with atheists,
And
Why you would think we dont understand what the word means.
Likely many an atheist knows it better than many a pious churchgoer.

Conscious thoughts said:

Honestly now I am confused

How can a believer discuss with someone about God, when the other person don't even have an understanding of the word God

@Unveiled Artist you answered in an other of my OP's
[

How can one discuss different understandings of God if we can not use that word?

This OP is made so non-believers can answer their understanding or lack of understanding of what God is in their understanding.
If God does not exist to you, how can you have so strong opinions about something that in you view does not exist?

And no, this OP is not for you to speak about believers, but it's about YOUR understanding or lack of it when speaking about God in discussions. So now you have to answer, and not ask questions toward OP starter or other believers.

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Biblically speaking, it is best to limit god conversations to the people (nearly 98% or so of people) who have an interest in spiritual things.

HonestJoe said:

What makes you say some atheists don't understand the word of God? Is that just because they disagree with your interpretation and beliefs?

The vast, vast majority of atheists (and theists for that matter) in the world aren't involved in any kind of religious discussion. Those of us who choose to engage on forums like this are a tiny minority.

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I said that because no matter what believers say to those few atheists, the atheists refuse to listen

Conscious thoughts said:

What you say is interesting i know some atheists do read religious books, but how then can some atheists not understand the word God? Thats the main issue in OP

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They usually understand it. But that is the very reason that they don't think it *is* the word of a supernatural being. ALL religious texts look, to us, like a few people trying to get power over others by telling them fancy stories to keep them in line.

It is possible to read a book, understand what it says, and still think the book is fiction.

Conscious thoughts said:

If atheists isn't interested in either learning or mocking about God, what are they doing in a religious discussion

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Often, they are interested in the history of ideas. Or they want to see the variety of different belief systems. Or they want to counter false information about atheism. Or they want to present another side to things. Or they see religious beliefs as something that need to be cured. Or they want to counter the effects of religion on society.

Conscious thoughts said:

What you say is interesting i know some atheists do read religious books, but how then can some atheists not understand the word God? Thats the main issue in OP

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They can understand it academically. Some of the atheist scholars are among the best in the world.

Academic approach and theological approach should be taken separately. TO be an academic, in some critical studies theists take a methodological approach, but atheists dont have to because they are naturalists anyway (generally). That is why atheist scholarship is very important for the field.

But theology is also important for theology. Without theology, theology cannot exist. I believe in the marriage of both of this.

Anyway, one must note that I am speaking of atheist scholars. Not some apologist who studied an anti Islamic Christian website called Jihad watch or studied Christianity from a particular church that abused them. The normal source of knowledge seems to be this.

Atheists are not so uneducated. They are very highly educated. I mean the academics. And when you have a discussion with them you would realise that it is easier to have a discussion about God and what ever topics you wish to discuss, with academic atheists. There is no question about it.

Conscious thoughts said:

Btw, this thread is not about me........

I ask atheists to answer, but i it seems they can't

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Such a charming invitation

Conscious thoughts said:

I said that because no matter what believers say to those few atheists, the atheists refuse to listen

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Or refuse to believe. There is a difference. We listen, think about what was said, and don't think it is valid.

This OP was about atheists answer, not defending theists.

Unveiled Artist said:

There's too much assumption of what god is. How do you know it's unknowable, for example?

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I don't. I know that is unknown today (as there is no agreed upon definition) but it might be knowable - though the chances are slim.
I have full confidence in the believers that they will come up with an agreed upon definition if it is knowable. ;-)

Unveiled Artist said:

People have different religious or spiritual (or very intense and well-meaning) experiences that may be easier to discuss than it would if you use the term god to describe it.

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I'll let them decide that as they are in the best position to judge what they believe and what they feel.

Conscious thoughts said:

If atheists isn't interested in either learning or mocking about God, what are they doing in a religious discussion

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Because you mentioned atheists specifically along with inviting discussion????

Basically, I'm providing an answer that most atheists are just not interested in people's beliefs. Unless of course, there are extraordinary evidences to back up extraordinary claims or views.

Conscious thoughts said:

How can a believer discuss with someone about God, when the other person don't even have an understanding of the word God

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In my experience, every single person has their own personal understanding of "god", and more often then not, that understanding is incompatible with other people's understanding.

Which kind of makes sense if one considers gods to be not real and only existing between people's ears. In that case, everyone will form their own personal image of this imaginary being.

If God does not exist to you, how can you have so strong opinions about something that in you view does not exist?

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The opinions are about the beliefs and the various manifestations thereof in religious cultures / populations / individuals. It's societal impact etc.

Not concerning the subject matter of the beliefs.
Although, when people describe their personal understanding of an entity, then we can discuss that entity using their own personal understanding that they have just shared as a starting point.

So for example, when some person tells me that his god hates nonbelievers and will be torturing homosexuals for eternity just because they were born homosexuals, then I can easily make a case that such a god would be an immoral unjust barbarian monster.

And no, this OP is not for you to speak about believers, but it's about YOUR understanding or lack of it when speaking about God in discussions. So now you have to answer, and not ask questions toward OP starter or other believers.

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Consider Darth Vader. Or Luke Skywalker. Or Frodo. Or Harry Potter. Iron man. Spiderman. Superman. .....

None of these entities exist. None of these are believed to exist. Nevertheless, what's to stop us from looking at the lore in which they are mentioned and described, and judge them for the character they are portrayed as in said lore?

Do you really need to believe that Darth Vader actually exists in order to recognize his evil ways?

Conscious thoughts said:

So it is impossible for an atheist to discuss topics about God?

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Just as it is impossible for anyone to discuss topics about Darth Vader, Luke Skywalker, Frodo, Neo, etc.

Why is it that certain believers are "attacked" by atheists for their belief in God

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Are you sure you aren't confusing "beliefs" with "believers" here?
I sure tend to attack beliefs.

Conscious thoughts said:

If atheists isn't interested in either learning or mocking about God, what are they doing in a religious discussion

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I didn't join this forum to talk about gods per say.
I joined to talk with people about their beliefs.

Beliefs, and the justifications for them, interest me.

In short: "the supernatural" does not interest me. People who believe in the supernatural, do.

Conscious thoughts said:

I said that because no matter what believers say to those few atheists, the atheists refuse to listen

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Again, what makes you think they're not listening? Maybe they are listening but just don't agree with you. Maybe you're not listening to them. You do seem to be making a lot of assertions about what atheists know or believe without any kind of backing for those claims.

Laika said:

I'll let them decide that as they are in the best position to judge what they believe and what they feel.

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Can you relate to what they say and feel when it comes to experiences? "God" aside, I'm sure many have had these experiences maybe by midlife perhaps.

TagliatelliMonster said:

In my experience, every single person has their own personal understanding of "god", and more often then not, that understanding is incompatible with other people's understanding.

Which kind of makes sense if one considers gods to be not real and only existing between people's ears. In that case, everyone will form their own personal image of this imaginary being.



The opinions are about the beliefs and the various manifestations thereof in religious cultures / populations / individuals. It's societal impact etc.

Not concerning the subject matter of the beliefs.
Although, when people describe their personal understanding of an entity, then we can discuss that entity using their own personal understanding that they have just shared as a starting point.

So for example, when some person tells me that his god hates nonbelievers and will be torturing homosexuals for eternity just because they were born homosexuals, then I can easily make a case that such a god would be an immoral unjust barbarian monster.




Consider Darth Vader. Or Luke Skywalker. Or Frodo. Or Harry Potter. Iron man. Spiderman. Superman. .....

None of these entities exist. None of these are believed to exist. Nevertheless, what's to stop us from looking at the lore in which they are mentioned and described, and judge them for the character they are portrayed as in said lore?

Do you really need to believe that Darth Vader actually exists in order to recognize his evil ways?

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Its " if god does not exist to you"
v
" if god only exists to you"

Twilight Hue said:

Because you mentioned atheists specifically along with inviting discussion????

Basically, I'm providing an answer that most atheists are just not interested in people's beliefs. Unless of course, there are extraordinary evidences to back up extraordinary claims or views.

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Some are just most of us can't relate to the specific God(s) spoken so having a conversation both parties need to be open. Mutual understanding.