How can a believer in a God discuss with an Atheist?

Nimos said:

Atheists use the definitions of God(s) which comes from what we are told or what scriptures tells us about them. Anyone can pick up a bible or the Quran or some other religious text and read it and learn about how and what God(s) is according to these, you don't have to be a theist to understand these texts.

Think about how many Muslims, just to use them as example that believes in the word of the Quran, yet they don't agree on the meaning of it and are willing to kill each other due to understanding it differently. If theists were the only ones that could understand it and get a clear image of what God is, then they are doing a very poor job at it to be honest. And the same goes with Christians, Jews etc.

The main issue as I see it, is that when theists talk about God they are extremely vague in explaining what said God is. But I think if you asked theists of different religions, even within your own, to clearly define exactly what they believe God is, what he is capable of, whether he intervene in our lives etc. that you probably wouldn't agree with almost 90% of them. When someone uses the word God and explain their feeling about such God, such as him being loving or whatever, you would probably agree, but that person might very well be a Christian saying that, which doesn't agree on your idea of a God, if you go in details. The commonality you speak of, only exist due to the vague definition of God that people use, if you ask me.

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What you say is interesting i know some atheists do read religious books, but how then can some atheists not understand the word God? Thats the main issue in OP

Honestly an atheist isn't even interested in God concepts nor what it entails.

It seems the issues revolves almost about proselytizing and affirmation of one's belief for one's self to which any atheist would disregard as self serving on behalf of a person touting their beliefs.

Atheists in general, with some exceptions, just don't care about the subject.

Conscious thoughts said:

That to means, you listen to what belivers do say

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Yeah. I try and I hope that's what I do. It's the only way to learn new things after all.

Twilight Hue said:

Honestly an atheist isn't even interested in God concepts nor what it entails.

It seems the issues revolves almost about proselytizing and affirmation of one's belief for one's self to which any atheist would disregard as self serving on behalf of a person touting their beliefs.

Atheists in general, with some exceptions, just don't care about the subject.

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It seems to me a bit ironic that an atheist would join a religious forum because they are not interested in God concepts or what they entail and just don't care about the subject...

Twilight Hue said:

Honestly an atheist isn't even interested in God concepts nor what it entails.

It seems the issues revolves almost about proselytizing and affirmation of one's belief for one's self to which any atheist would disregard as self serving on behalf of a person touting their beliefs.

Atheists in general, with some exceptions, just don't care about the subject.

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If atheists isn't interested in either learning or mocking about God, what are they doing in a religious discussion

Conscious thoughts said:

What you say is interesting i know some atheists do read religious books, but how then can some atheists not understand the word God? Thats the main issue in OP

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I haven't read the Quran so don't know it in great details, but have read most of the bible and some of it more than once. So a common issue, when I ask a Christian, but might as well be a Muslim as well, is for instance to tell me what God is to them, and they might say that he is this and that, lets say all loving for instance. Then I might ask them if they think parents should be allowed to kill their children if these curse them? And they will most likely say no. Then I show them one or two passages in the bible where God and Jesus say that this is what you ought to do, because that is what the law say. Then I might ask them how they reached the conclusion that such God is all loving then, if they don't agree with this?

Some of them might very well say that this only apply to the Jews or that the law doesn't apply anymore because Jesus fulfilled it, or that I don't understand it as an atheist or what other excuse they might have. The fact is that the God they believe in according to the OT said this and it is right there in the text for them to read. I didn't put it there I didn't change its meaning or anything, but only asked the question, how a God can be said to be all loving, if such being at any point thought that parents should be allowed to kill their children.

So I hope you see the issue here, I use the very scriptures they believe is inspired God or have religious meaning to ask them question about the God they believe in, yet as you state in the OP, Im the one being accused of not understanding God, despite not having manipulated or misrepresented what exactly the religious texts say that God told people. That is not really fair is it? How is it, that a theist is allowed to ignore such statement or misrepresent it as having a different meaning and then being told that they understand God better than me, when they are the ones manipulating the texts and not me?

Conscious thoughts said:

There a probably many reasons for people become non-believers, but how do one lose connection with God?

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Easy, I never felt a connection,
This god is not very compassionate my lovely niece died of a brain tumour at age 26, look at those kids starving, the boy, Arthur, who was 6 and dies because of maltreatment by his parents god stood by and watched
A god needs to earn respect, I see no such evidence of a god, less of one I could respect

Conscious thoughts said:

If atheists isn't interested in either learning or mocking about God, what are they doing in a religious discussion

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When religions stop interfering in politics and stop having privileges', like tax exemption, that others don't have.
When as in my country religious state schools who can choose their pupils by where they pray stop getting funding I'll perhaps stop posting.
When our second chamber of parliament loses its 26 unelected bishops, I'll stop posting.

I could go on, abortion, same sex marriage, etc but I'm sure you get the picture

SalixIncendium said:

It seems to me a bit ironic that an atheist would join a religious forum because they are not interested in God concepts or what they entail and just don't care about the subject...

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I am considering joining an NFL forum, know any good ones?

I don't understand the game, and have no real interest in it, but I thought I'd tell them that nothing they do makes any sense to me. I'm sure when I tell them how logic and reason dictate that football is played with the feet, they'll see the error of their ways. The ball isn't even ball shaped, might as well call the game unicorn horn as football.

Conscious thoughts said:

Honestly now I am confused

How can a believer discuss with someone about God, when the other person don't even have an understanding of the word God

@Unveiled Artist you answered in an other of my OP's
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How can one discuss different understandings of God if we can not use that word?

This OP is made so non-believers can answer their understanding or lack of understanding of what God is in their understanding.
If God does not exist to you, how can you have so strong opinions about something that in you view does not exist?

And no, this OP is not for you to speak about believers, but it's about YOUR understanding or lack of it when speaking about God in discussions. So now you have to answer, and not ask questions toward OP starter or other believers.

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In my experience, theists usually don't have the same understanding of the word "God" either.

If you want to be clearly understood, define your terms. Explain the important points of what you mean instead of assuming that the people you're talking to will automatically understand.

(This applies to much more than the word "God")

Conscious thoughts said:

If atheists isn't interested in either learning or mocking about God, what are they doing in a religious discussion

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Personally, I find religion fascinating as a social phenomenon and want to figure out how it works.

Conscious thoughts said:

What you say is interesting i know some atheists do read religious books, but how then can some atheists not understand the word God? Thats the main issue in OP

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What makes you say some atheists don't understand the word of God? Is that just because they disagree with your interpretation and beliefs?

Conscious thoughts said:

If atheists isn't interested in either learning or mocking about God, what are they doing in a religious discussion

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The vast, vast majority of atheists (and theists for that matter) in the world aren't involved in any kind of religious discussion. Those of us who choose to engage on forums like this are a tiny minority.

Heyo said:

I don't know. I don't know the context and I don't know @Unveiled Artist's mind.
Maybe she's on her way to become an Agnostic. For us, "god" is a word without meaning.

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Agnostic? I always thought that word was weird. Never believed deities exist to get an idea of what they are to assume that they "could."

The word god does have a meaning. It's not an abrahamic word just a placeholder for a variety of experiences or causes thereof that believers can't put in words.

Does the term god need to have a fixed definition?

Think outside the box?

Abrahamics don't own the word.

Conscious thoughts said:

Honestly now I am confused

How can a believer discuss with someone about God, when the other person don't even have an understanding of the word God

@Unveiled Artist you answered in an other of my OP's
[

How can one discuss different understandings of God if we can not use that word?

This OP is made so non-believers can answer their understanding or lack of understanding of what God is in their understanding.
If God does not exist to you, how can you have so strong opinions about something that in you view does not exist?

And no, this OP is not for you to speak about believers, but it's about YOUR understanding or lack of it when speaking about God in discussions. So now you have to answer, and not ask questions toward OP starter or other believers.

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I'm confused too. Which one should I be replying to?

I'm not referring to me personally just (as mentioned) people in general. It's not always about me.

Conscious thoughts said:

Honestly now I am confused

How can a believer discuss with someone about God, when the other person don't even have an understanding of the word God

@Unveiled Artist you answered in an other of my OP's
[

How can one discuss different understandings of God if we can not use that word?

This OP is made so non-believers can answer their understanding or lack of understanding of what God is in their understanding.
If God does not exist to you, how can you have so strong opinions about something that in you view does not exist?

And no, this OP is not for you to speak about believers, but it's about YOUR understanding or lack of it when speaking about God in discussions. So now you have to answer, and not ask questions toward OP starter or other believers.

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Next time (if I'm still here) could you quote me so I can trail back to which conversations you're referring to if not in the thread discussed?

RestlessSoul said:

I am considering joining an NFL forum, know any good ones?

I don't understand the game, and have no real interest in it, but I thought I'd tell them that nothing they do makes any sense to me. I'm sure when I tell them how logic and reason dictate that football is played with the feet, they'll see the error of their ways. The ball isn't even ball shaped, might as well call the game unicorn horn as football.

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We call it hand-egg on this side of the pond. We have a sport here that's played with feet kicking a roughly ball shaped bladder. We call that football.

Conscious thoughts said:

How can a believer discuss with someone about God, when the other person don't even have an understanding of the word God

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Because the word god isn't a Sufi, Christian, Hindu (etc) term. It's just a placeholder to define experiences or the person or thing that's the cause of those experiences in which to most people who believe in god has changed their lives. So, if you think outside the box and ask people what events and experiences "changed their lives" and where/who/what they attributed those experiences to, the theology falls short and the common human experiences arises. (This is assuming that many atheist think outside the box too). Atheist doesn't mean "no believe/having spiritual experiences." It just and only means disbelief in god.

Here's an example:

@Laika

As an atheist, I'm generally more than happy to accept whatever definition of God a religious believer has in mind and debate its merits. I prefer to discuss the emotional and spiritual associations and experiences people have because, even as a non-believer, it can still tell me something about my relationship with the universe and my place in it.

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People have different religious or spiritual (or very intense and well-meaning) experiences that may be easier to discuss than it would if you use the term god to describe it.

Conscious thoughts said:

How can one discuss different understandings of God if we can not use that word?

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Because the term isn't needed to discuss what changes people's lives and theology isn't necessary to discuss it whether it be from Wiccan, Christian, Sufi, or whomever whether they believe in something or not.

Conscious thoughts said:

This OP is made so non-believers can answer their understanding or lack of understanding of what God is in their understanding.

If God does not exist to you, how can you have so strong opinions about something that in you view does not exist?

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A lot of non-believers have had experiences with god growing up and later came to the conclusion god didn't exist apart from what they are told. So they have the same foundation of reasoning (whether their family, say, were Christian, Muslim, whatever) but later on their experiences didn't align with the logic when they got older. Just going by what's on RF. For me personally, I was not raised in a religious household. If not for RF and my catholic friend, I would have never believed in any religion regardless the nature.

Conscious thoughts said:

And no, this OP is not for you to speak about believers, but it's about YOUR understanding or lack of it when speaking about God in discussions. So now you have to answer, and not ask questions toward OP starter or other believers.

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To get a sense of what the OP is talking about, people will question the OP. You need to give some context (definitions for example and pointers as another RFer said) so people can actually refer to the topic ... but believers aren't in a secret club, though. I don't know if there is a theists DIR but if there is maybe put your questions there. It seems you get frustrated when beliefs about god are challenged rather than accepted on common terms.

Unveiled Artist said:

Agnostic? I always thought that word was weird. Never believed deities exist to get an idea of what they are to assume that they "could."

The word god does have a meaning. It's not an abrahamic word just a placeholder for a variety of experiences or causes thereof that believers can't put in words.

Does the term god need to have a fixed definition?

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Only if you use it as if it had a fixed definition. There are multiple words that have multiple meaning. Usually one can guess the meaning from the context. (See "football" in this thread.)
But with "god" there are so many different, often opposing definitions that without the complete description, there is no way to guess the meaning from the context. (Which makes the word itself meaningless.)

Heyo said:

Only if you use it as if it had a fixed definition. There are multiple words that have multiple meaning. Usually one can guess the meaning from the context. (See "football" in this thread.)
But with "god" there are so many different, often opposing definitions that without the complete description, there is no way to guess the meaning from the context. (Which makes the word itself meaningless.)

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It would be easier to use "proper pronouns" Allah, Zues (people do believe in), Jehovah, Brahman, and so forth or describe it if there's no term than to use one term to describe assumed to be similar experiences. It's a useless term but, hey, blame the Greeks.

Heyo said:

Theists and atheists share the illusion of understanding what a god is. Only that the one believes it exists and the other doesn't.
It is the Agnostic who doesn't have an idea what a god is - and neither do you, as s/he will tell you.
Then it turns from a discussion about god(s) into a discussion about unknowability.

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The problem is,heyo, is CT doesn't believe god as a deity or being. It's a mystic experience. So, unless atheist never had anything that changed their worldview both are talking past each other over a word.

There's too much assumption of what god is. How do you know it's unknowable, for example?