Perhaps but then you'd have something to compare to what others have claimed about God.
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The God of Jesus
- Thread starter Nakosis
- Start date
Perhaps but then you'd have something to compare to what others have claimed about God.
One of justice, mercy and love.
firedragon
Veteran Member
Depends on the gospel you would read. You will definitely have to separate the two types. The Synoptics and John. The thing is, this would be a repetition of repeatedly discussed and well known matters.
With no methodologies or vis a vis, criticisms, you can see the evolution of christology and the concept of God. From Mark to John.
You would never see the Johannine statements like "before Abraham was I am" though egw eimi and Egw Eimi Ho on could be disputed in some ways which phrase is referred to in John, and other phrases like he and I are one, which may also be contested with johns statements about the disciples also being one, in any of the synoptics.
What you are doing is, avoiding Paul and the other pseudonymous writings, along with some other writings in the NT. When you do that, it is very difficult to get the Jesus what is currently propagated as "the Jesus".
Interesting.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
There are many other scriptures to compare the New Testament to, including the Old Testament, the Qur'an and the Writings of Baha'u'llah.
Well, funny thing. I thought this would be easy. To come up with a list of statements Jesus made about God.
I thought maybe something that could be googled. However what I get is a bunch of sites trying to prove Jesus is God.
Maybe Jesus did not say much about God. In looking through Mark, this is all I found.
God is good
You can't, you have to connect to the living word of light of the time, Jesus (a) emphasized he was the light of the world as long as he was in the world. So Gospels is about the means to know God, which is through the likes of Moses, Elijah, and Jesus. Today, it's through Imam Mahdi you can see God and connect to him. There is always a word of God and light from God and spirit from God that is termed "the holy spirit" and is God's power on earth.
So without a living Guide, to me, the Gospels are dead and don't make any sense. The same is of the Torah and books between Gospels and Torah and same with Quran.
They emphasize on the Guides and means, and so if there is none in this time, no guide, then you can't understand what it's calling to and reminding of.
Holy books are reminding how to connect to God through his invisible connectors in the unseen journey.
Take away that connection and you can't understand them. This is why blind dark hearts don't understand Quran or Gospels.
What do you mean "image"? If you mean like a mental picture, we should imagine nothing at all, for God is not a thing. If you mean idea, we should have the idea of an eternal Father who is a spirit which has never been seen, who provides for all, is just, loves the world and does not desire to condemn it, who has given judgment to the Lord Jesus, and so on.
Ok, but lots of people think they do understand the message of these messengers. You are just one among many who claim they can.
Sand Dancer
Crazy Cat Lady
A heck of a lot better one than the OT shows. If the religion is about Jesus, then Jesus' views should be the utmost.
Yeah, I struggled with that word. What I meant was clear picture or understanding.
Jesus says a lot about God's kingdom but not about God.
The OT says a lot about God. In the Gospels, I'm not really finding much.
That's what I thought too.
That's because a lot of information is referenced and assumed (such as knowledge of the OT) as background knowledge, and the Gospels themselves were made in communities who assumed a lot of things about their readers (firstly, that they were themselves).
Sand Dancer
Crazy Cat Lady
What Christians should have done is not included the OT in their canon. As their Jesus ceases to be Jewish, then the NT is all they should need. I think many like the Levitical laws and just use Jesus as gatekeeper to heaven. Ugh.
Hidingfromyou
Member
Since the NT differs from the OT, does this mean that the deity it portrays changed from bad to good? I mean, the OT has the deity ordering its chosen people to commit genocide, but in the NT, the deity is much less nasty (though still quite sexist and accepting slavery), so did the deity grow in terms of morality?
Further, can we expect a new NT where the deity accepts contemporary morality, like accepting that multiple genders exist and that the death penalty is questionable?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Whenever Jesus refers to the Father, He is talking about God. I don't have time to look right now, but just from memory I know that Jesus has said a lot about the Father. However, the problem is that many New Testament verses conflate Jesus (the Son) and God (the Father) as if they are the same, but they are not, and that is clear by what Jesus says about the Father. For example:
Jesus claimed to reveal God, Whom He called Father, but Jesus differentiated Himself from God:
John 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself, even so gave he to the Son also to have life in himself:
John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
John 16:23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.
Jesus said that God was greater than He was:
Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
How could Jesus pray to and go to the Father if Jesus WAS the God the Father?
John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
John 16:16 A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father.
John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Jesus said He was from God and that God sent Him, again differentiating Himself from God:
John 17:3 And eternal life means to know you, the only true God, and to know Jesus Christ, whom you sent.
John 7:28 Then cried Jesus in the temple as he taught, saying, Ye both know me, and ye know whence I am: and I am not come of myself, but he that sent me is true, whom ye know not. 29 But I know him: for I am from him, and he hath sent me.
Jesus even stated specifically that the Father had knowledge which was not possessed by the Son.
Matthew 24:36 No one knows about that day or hour, not even the Son, but the Father only.
Mark 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
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DNB
Christian
Matthew 24
1 Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2 “Do you see all these things?” he asked. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”
3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”
4 Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.
9 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.
22 “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.
26 “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.
29 “Immediately after the distress of those days
“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’
God doesn't answer prayers, doesn't rescue cancer victims from pain, debilitation, and death, and has cruelly flooded the world, killing innocents.
Jesus has cured the sick, fed the hungry, and railed against churches that collected bobbles while ignoring the suffering.
God even allowed Jesus to be horribly tortured to death while Jesus asked him "why hath thou forsaken me?"
Parents always ask....where did I go wrong? In this case, Jesus was a good kid, but his father has a far worse reputation.
Look at all of the posts that say that God is loving. There must be a lot of love inside God because none ever came out.
In the bible, Jesus speaks of God as his father. Surely, then the Catholic notion of the trinity (father, son, and holy spirit) is not correct. That is, they are not the same entity.
DNB
Christian
First of all, that only the Father is deity, and that there are no other divine beings or persons in the universe, other than the Father.
You claim that you couldn't find any direct remarks that Jesus made about God, other than the Kingdom. And, yet, when Jesus says that he was sent by the Father in order to offer the world salvation, is that not worth 1,000 words about God's character? When he speaks about the impending perdition to those who have defied God, is not God's justice exemplified by such statements. When Jesus refers to what will occur once he is raised from the dead, for both himself and the redeemed, does God's love not become apparent by such facts? The power and authority that has been bestowed upon Jesus for the love that he showed towards the Father, does that not make the Father kind, generous and non-tyrannical? How Jesus refers to sinners as inexorably corrupt, but allows them to be absolved of their sins simply by having faith in his lordship, is God not clearly gracious and merciful?