mashiach question

Eddi · Nov 26, 2021

I have a question for the Jews of RF

So Jews only please!

@Rival too if she has anything to contribute

I have been looking into why Jesus Christ is not The Messiah and I must say that I no longer believe he was

I am therefore studying the Jewish concept, as the concept is Jewish!

Have just read this webpage

Was Jesus the Messiah?

It says that The Messiah must do all the following things for them (could The Messiah be a she??? - genuine question!) to be correctly called The Messiah:

1) He must be Jewish. (Deuteronomy. 17:15, Numbers 24:17)

2) He must be a member of the tribe of Judah (Genesis 49:10) and a direct male descendant of King David (I Chronicles 17:11, Psalms 89:29-38, Jeremiah 33:17, II Samuel 7:12-16) and King Solomon. (I Chronicles 22:10, II Chronicles 7:18)

3) He must gather the Jewish people from exile and return them to Israel. (Isaiah 27:12-13, Isaiah 11:12)

4) He must rebuild the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem. (Micah 4:1)

5) He must bring world peace. (Isaiah 2:4, Isaiah 11:6, Micah 4:3)

6) He must influence the entire world to acknowledge and serve one G-d. (Isaiah 11:9, Isaiah 40:5, Zephaniah 3:9)

This sounds like a very tall order

And I cannot imagine how one person could achieve all this...

So, my question is: does The Messiah have to have achieved all these in his (or her???) life-time?

Or could they still be credited as being The Messiah but in hindsight, only after they have died and such things (that they initially caused) have come to pass, after their death?

For instance, could some of these things occur because of The Messiah but only many years after The Messiah dies – but could still be attributable to them? Thus making them The Messiah but not in their lifetime?

Harel13 · Nov 26, 2021

Eddi said:
could The Messiah be a she??? - genuine question!

Male-only. Sorry.

Eddi said:
This sounds like a very tall order

And I cannot imagine how one person could achieve all this...

It is, but obviously he doesn't do it by himself. He will be assisted by the Nation of Israel.

Eddi said:
So, my question is: does The Messiah have to have achieved all these in his (or her???) life-time?

Yup. His. No her.

Eddi said:
Or could they still be credited as being The Messiah but in hindsight, only after they have died and such things (that they initially caused) have come to pass, after their death?

No, not that I'm aware.

Eddi · Nov 26, 2021

Harel13 said:
Male-only. Sorry.

It is, but obviously he doesn't do it by himself. He will be assisted by the Nation of Israel.

Yup. His. No her.

No, not that I'm aware.

Interesting, thanks for your reply!

But how will he be identified? How would people know it's him?

Are people on the look-out for a gifted and brilliant child who may be The Messiah?

Because surely he would have to be identified at a young age? Especially given that he will only have the lifespan of a normal human being?

How will people know it is him before he does the things he is supposed to do?

How will the Jewish people know who The Messiah is, if he has not yet done what he is supposed to do? What other signs are there, that would point to him being The Messiah and therefore someone to obey and follow?

Basically: would he have to be identified as The Messiah before he can do his things? Surely he would??? And if so, how?

Eddi · Nov 26, 2021

Basically, what I'm asking is:

1) How will people know that The Messiah is The Messiah? - before he does his stuff
2) Is anyone actually doing anything to actively identify people who have the potential to be The Messiah?

dybmh · Nov 26, 2021

Eddi said:
1) How will people know that The Messiah is The Messiah? - before he does his stuff

The Messiah will be the leader of the Jewish people during the messianic era. People will know it's the messianic era because of something called מחיה-המתים, the ressurection of the dead. I think it's described in Ezekial and Daniel. So once there's a Temple, and the dead are rising from their graves, then it makes sense to look to the current leader as the Messiah.

Eddi said:
2) Is anyone actually doing anything to actively identify people who have the potential to be The Messiah

There might be groups out there looking for him; but being Jewish, following laws and celebrating the holidays is a lot of work. In general Jewish people focus on day to day activities not on the Messiah.

Shaul · Nov 26, 2021

The scriptures proclaim that the things you mentioned will happen at the time of the moshiach. But it doesn’t say that he (yes, the moshiach will be a male) himself has to necessarily do all of them.

A key point is that trying to predict when the moshiach is coming isn’t necessary to do and is actually a waste of time. The key point is that he is in fact coming whenever he shall. Therefore those that are wise prepare themselves for that inevitable day.

Harel13 · Nov 28, 2021

Eddi said:
1) How will people know that The Messiah is The Messiah? - before he does his

Basically what @dybmh said, except without the resurrection. It'll happen but only farther in the future, according to Maimonides. It's not a requirement for recognizing the messianic age.

Eddi said:
Is anyone actually doing anything to actively identify people who have the potential to be The Messiah?

Not that I'm aware. This isn't like the search for the new Dalai Lama.

IndigoChild5559 · Nov 28, 2021

Eddi said:
I have a question for the Jews of RF

So Jews only please!

@Rival too if she has anything to contribute

I have been looking into why Jesus Christ is not The Messiah and I must say that I no longer believe he was

I am therefore studying the Jewish concept, as the concept is Jewish!

Have just read this webpage

Was Jesus the Messiah?

It says that The Messiah must do all the following things for them (could The Messiah be a she??? - genuine question!) to be correctly called The Messiah:

1) He must be Jewish. (Deuteronomy. 17:15, Numbers 24:17)

2) He must be a member of the tribe of Judah (Genesis 49:10) and a direct male descendant of King David (I Chronicles 17:11, Psalms 89:29-38, Jeremiah 33:17, II Samuel 7:12-16) and King Solomon. (I Chronicles 22:10, II Chronicles 7:18)

3) He must gather the Jewish people from exile and return them to Israel. (Isaiah 27:12-13, Isaiah 11:12)

4) He must rebuild the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem. (Micah 4:1)

5) He must bring world peace. (Isaiah 2:4, Isaiah 11:6, Micah 4:3)

6) He must influence the entire world to acknowledge and serve one G-d. (Isaiah 11:9, Isaiah 40:5, Zephaniah 3:9)

This sounds like a very tall order

And I cannot imagine how one person could achieve all this...

So, my question is: does The Messiah have to have achieved all these in his (or her???) life-time?

Or could they still be credited as being The Messiah but in hindsight, only after they have died and such things (that they initially caused) have come to pass, after their death?

For instance, could some of these things occur because of The Messiah but only many years after The Messiah dies – but could still be attributable to them? Thus making them The Messiah but not in their lifetime?

Yes, the messiah will fulfill all those things in his one lifetime. The fulfillment of all these prophecies is really the only way we have of identifying the messiah.

IndigoChild5559 · Nov 28, 2021

Eddi said:
Basically, what I'm asking is:

1) How will people know that The Messiah is The Messiah? - before he does his stuff
2) Is anyone actually doing anything to actively identify people who have the potential to be The Messiah?

There is no way to know if someone is the messiah before he fulfills all the prophecies. and if he dies having not checked off everything on the list, it means he wasn't the messiah.

mashiach question

Eddi

Agnostic

Harel13

Am Yisrael Chai

Eddi

Agnostic

Eddi

Agnostic

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש

Shaul

Well-Known Member

Harel13

Am Yisrael Chai

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.