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How Socialist...

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
How that voice is distributed matters.
I prefer that it be distributed rather than centralized.

In my opinion, both American parties are 100% right-wing.
Democrats focus on social issues only (LGBTs, minorities) but I have never heard them speak of Economics.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
In my opinion, both American parties are 100% right-wing.
Democrats focus on social issues only (LGBTs, minorities) but I have never heard them speak of Economics.
Oh, they do voice opinions about economics...strong ones.
Left v right is all relative.
To N Koreans, you Eurostanians are all Ayn devotees.
 
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metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
How Socialist are you willing to go?

Free education
Payed public education at least through two years of college but preferably more. However, conditions are needed.

Free healthcare
Generally speaking, yes. However, we shouldn't have to pay for your face-lift.:p

Yes.

Free housing for the needy
No, but at least partially subsidized.

Open borders
No, and nor is that "socialist".

Guaranteed employment
No, but government should work on trying to create as much employment as possible in a free market.

Government owned utilities
Either owned or heavily regulated.

Government control of corporations
No, but regulations undoubedly should be in order when needed.


I'm pretty much a "Scandinavian socialist", much like "the Bern".
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Oh, they do voice opinions about economics.
Left v right is all relative.
To N Koreans, you Eurostanians are all Ayn devotees.
Exactly. It is all relative.
The US have a Constitution that does not call for socialism.
We do. :)
I base myself upon that meter. In General, all of Europe is much more "leftist" than the US.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Generally speaking, yes. However, we shouldn't have to pay for your face-lift.:p
.

In fact, in Europe in single-payer free healthcare countries, no useless surgery is paid for by the State.
Only all those necessary for your survival/health.
If one has cancer, I do not understand how it is acceptable that the patient pays for the surgery that can save their life.
It is absurd that physicians consider this acceptable.
Or if a woman delivers a baby in the hospital, she has to pay medical bills.
I find all this extremely abhorrent.

And I do not think that the so called health insurance companies are guided by "philanthropic Christian spirit" .
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Exactly. It is all relative.
The US have a Constitution that does not call for socialism.
We do. :)
I base myself upon that meter. In General, all of Europe is much more "leftist" than the US.
Looking at Wikipedia's info about Italy, you
guys look pretty capitalist to me, ie, private
ownership of the means of production.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
They are playing. It is a game. The problem is that they play with real money.

And real lives, too. That leads to an even bigger problem when those who lose refuse to walk away from the table and be "good sports" about it. Sometimes, people play dirty. In the old west, sometimes a game of poker could go awry and turn into a shootout.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Looking at Wikipedia's info about Italy, you
guys look pretty capitalist to me, ie, private
ownership of the means of production.
Capitalism is compatible with Socialism.
Free enterprise is still free, even if the State owns banks, enterprises, etc...
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Might as well go for it. Itvwill be a huge free-for-all party and by the time it all bottoms out and crashes like Greece or Venezuela, hopefully I will be dead by then.

Well, lets see what folks are looking for.

IMO socialism by the people sounds ideal but never seems to work out that way.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Capitalism is compatible with Socialism.
You must be using a definition of "socialism" I've not
yet encountered in any dictionary. What would that be?
Free enterprise is still free, even if the State owns banks, enterprises, etc...
Free from the perspective of the state, eh.
(That's the PRC's view of things, ie, the freedom to be as they say.)
I prefer that it be free from the perspective of the private sector.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
You must be using a definition of "socialism" I've not
yet encountered in any dictionary. What would that be?
.
As I said in a previous post

If you ask me, what Socialism is, I would answer: Art 18 (Labor basic law).
That is, the article that forbids employers from laying off employees without just cause.
Example: if the employer wants to get to profit maximization of his firm, by firing people, that is not a just cause. And the employer will be condemned to compensate the employee (worth up to 24 months of salary).
This is the basic principle of socialism, in my humble opinion. :)

Profit maximization at cost of people's unemployment is not tolerated, for it is uncostitutional.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
To a community where unreasonable wealth and unreasonable poverty are ended.

Free education
Free healthcare
Free housing for the needy[/.QUOTE]
Yes. Paid for with funds from (mostly) Income, inheritance and purchase taxation....


Government owned services..... Yes.
YOu will believe in those, I reckon, Nakosis.

While I think health, education and welfare something that ends up being beneficial to a nation, our politicians obtain almost celebrity status. Instead of serving the people they seem more interested in serving themselves. So I have a problem trusting the government with the funding.

Oh you would be, I reckon, if you were weakened, disabled, sick, without funds, cold, homeless etc.
You would be..... :D

Same motivation some religious have just replacing God with the government.

I don't think that you really would agree with State schools closed down, State run Hospitals ended, Millions living under tenting and corrugated iron, etc...... think about it.

My concern with socialism is the need to trust the governing body. Not really with the social programs.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
That's not full blown socialism....just socialistic, ie,
yet another degree of control of business by government.
That means we have a socialistic Constitution.
JP Morgan told us. Those are not my words.
They told us as if it were something negative.
 
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