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The self

VoidCat

VoidCat

Pronouns: he/him/they/them
I was discussing with a friend and a question popped in mind I've been wondering for months now. Why is it main religions feel the self is not a good thing? In Dharmic religions it's an illusion. In Christianity the self is terrible and sinful. Why is that? I just don't get it. Im not trying to debate just trying to understand why one would think the self is terrible or is an illusion. I don't understand it and Im just curious.
 
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Twilight Hue

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
RayofLight said:
I was discussing with a friend and a question popped in mind I've been wondering for months now. Why is it main religions feel the self is not a good thing? In Dhramic religions it's an illusion. In Christianity the self is terrible and sinful. Why is that? I just don't get it. Im not trying to debate just trying to understand why one would think the self is terrible or is an illusion. I don't understand it and Im just curious.
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Well illusory. Not an illusion in some dharmic viewpoints.

The self is there, but it's temporary and regarded as an aggregate, as opposed to being complete in terms of how self is regarded and perceived.
 
Ashoka

Ashoka

श्री कृष्णा शरणं मम
Hi! In Hinduism, the Self is not illusionary, but is actually, in monistic sects, equated with Brahman (the ultimate). The Upanishads say only a fool denies the self. I'm interested in responses as well, so I will be be following this thread.
 
L

Lain

Well-Known Member
RayofLight said:
I was discussing with a friend and a question popped in mind I've been wondering for months now. Why is it main religions feel the self is not a good thing? In Dharmic religions it's an illusion. In Christianity the self is terrible and sinful. Why is that? I just don't get it. Im not trying to debate just trying to understand why one would think the self is terrible or is an illusion. I don't understand it and Im just curious.
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In my opinion: there is a false self and a true self. The latter is good and grows in goodness, following the former ends in eternal death. They are distinguished so harshly because many think that just because a thought comes to them or a desire it means "I want that" or "I think that," or that just because a thought has "I" it means it's theirs, which in Christian theology is not the case. Persons are good and not evil, it's just we are corrupted (one may think of it as lacking all the good we should have). I think of myself (what is truly me) as extremely good and blessed.
 
VoidCat

VoidCat

Pronouns: he/him/they/them
Twilight Hue said:
Well illusory. Not an illusion in some dharmic viewpoints.

The self is there, but it's temporary and regarded as an aggregate, as opposed to being complete in terms of how self is regarded and perceived.
Click to expand...

Ashoka said:
Hi! In Hinduism, the Self is not illusionary, but is actually, in monistic sects, equated with Brahman (the ultimate). The Upanishads say only a fool denies the self. I'm interested in responses as well, so I will be be following this thread.
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good to know I know very little bout Dharmic paths
 
sun rise

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
RayofLight said:
m not trying to debate just trying to understand why one would think the self is terrible or is an illusion.
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It's not the self is an illusion as much as our experiences are of illusion. We think a table is solid because we can thump our hand into it. But science has shown that the table is mostly empty space so our perception of solidity is basically incorrect.

The drop, atma, experiences it self as separate from paramatma, Supreme Self, the Ocean. The reality is that the drop is not separate from the ocean or perhaps paradoxically separate and not-separate at the same time.

Certain actions build the apparent separation, what in the west is called 'sin'. Other actions being more sense of unity.
 
Vinayaka

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Ashoka said:
Hi! In Hinduism, the Self is not illusionary, but is actually, in monistic sects, equated with Brahman (the ultimate). The Upanishads say only a fool denies the self. I'm interested in responses as well, so I will be be following this thread.
Click to expand...

I believe OP is talking about the small ego self, not the Self. Traditionally, one is capitalized, as you did, to indicate the difference. Yes the Self is the only permanent reality, identical in essence to Brahman, but also yes, the self (ego, personality) is illusion, mostly because it's totally temporal.
 
Ashoka

Ashoka

श्री कृष्णा शरणं मम
Vinayaka said:
I believe OP is talking about the small ego self, not the Self. Traditionally, one is capitalized, as you did, to indicate the difference. Yes the Self is the only permanent reality, identical in essence to Brahman, but also yes, the self (ego, personality) is illusion, mostly because it's totally temporal.
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That is very interesting. So the self is false then, and is actually our ego; but the true Self is Brahma (in my view). I think that's right?
 
Vinayaka

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Ashoka said:
That is very interesting. So the self is false then, and is actually our ego; but the true Self is Brahma (in my view). I think that's right?
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Yes. It has lead to a lot of confusion for many people over the years who falsely believe the small self is identical to God. It's another product of a language (English) not having a suitable word for the concept, and using what somebody considered was close.
 
Aupmanyav

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Ashoka Said: "That is very interesting. So the self is false then, and is actually our ego; but the true Self is Brahma (in my view). I think that's right?"
Brahman. Brahma is a puranic God of creation and fate (Vidhata).
 
Aupmanyav

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
RayofLight said:
I'm not trying to debate just trying to understand why one would think the self is terrible or is an illusion. I don't understand it and I'm just curious.
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In Advaita (non-dual) Hinduism, 'self' is ALL INCLUSIVE, nothing is left out, is singular, nothing to compare with, so it is neither terrible nor lovable, it just is. However, any individuality is an illusion.
 
IndigoChild5559

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
RayofLight said:
I was discussing with a friend and a question popped in mind I've been wondering for months now. Why is it main religions feel the self is not a good thing? In Dharmic religions it's an illusion. In Christianity the self is terrible and sinful. Why is that? I just don't get it. Im not trying to debate just trying to understand why one would think the self is terrible or is an illusion. I don't understand it and Im just curious.
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I don't know that it is honest to say that Chrsitains are against the self. Sure they believe in Original sin,but they also teach that we are made in the image of God.
 
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