Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Your "evidence" has been discussed and dismissed.
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Atheists: What would be evidence of God’s existence?
- Thread starter Trailblazer
- Start date
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Okay, below is the definition... Now you can tell me how we could procure evidence of this God.
God in the Baháʼí Faith
The Baháʼí view of God is essentially monotheistic. God is the imperishable, uncreated being who is the source of all existence.[1] He is described as "a personal God, unknowable, inaccessible, the source of all Revelation, eternal, omniscient, omnipresent and almighty".[2][3] Though transcendent and inaccessible directly, his image is reflected in his creation. The purpose of creation is for the created to have the capacity to know and love its creator.[4] God communicates his will and purpose to humanity through intermediaries, known as Manifestations of God, who are the prophets and messengers that have founded religions from prehistoric times up to the present day.[5]
The Baháʼí teachings state that there is only one God and that his essence is absolutely inaccessible from the physical realm of existence and that, therefore, his reality is completely unknowable. Thus, all of humanity's conceptions of God which have been derived throughout history are mere manifestations of the human mind and not at all reflective of the nature of God's essence. While God's essence is inaccessible, a subordinate form of knowledge is available by way of mediation by divine messengers, known as Manifestations of God.
While the Baháʼí writings teach of a personal god who is a being with a personality (including the capacity to reason and to feel love), they clearly state that this does not imply a human or physical form.[2] Shoghi Effendi writes:
What is meant by personal God is a God Who is conscious of His creation, Who has a Mind, a Will, a Purpose, and not, as many scientists and materialists believe, an unconscious and determined force operating in the universe. Such conception of the Divine Being, as the Supreme and ever present Reality in the world, is not anthropomorphic, for it transcends all human limitations and forms, and does by no means attempt to define the essence of Divinity which is obviously beyond any human comprehension. To say that God is a personal Reality does not mean that He has a physical form, or does in any way resemble a human being. To entertain such belief would be sheer blasphemy.[15][16]
I make no claims because I have nothing to claim. Baha'u'llah made the claims and I believe His claims are true.
Since Baha'u'llah made the claims He had the burden of proof. As a believer, I have no burden of proof unless I am trying to convince atheists that what I believe is true.
You should be asking yourself why atheists can never (at least I have never seen it) search for the evidence of God on their own but instead expect believers to do their homework as assigned by God.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I know that it has been dismissed by all the atheists here but he is a new guy on the block so I am just giving him what he asked for. I don't expect any different result, I am just doing the job Baha'u'llah gave me to do.
“Consort with all men, O people of Bahá, in a spirit of friendliness and fellowship. If ye be aware of a certain truth, if ye possess a jewel, of which others are deprived, share it with them in a language of utmost kindliness and good-will. If it be accepted, if it fulfil its purpose, your object is attained. If anyone should refuse it, leave him unto himself, and beseech God to guide him. Beware lest ye deal unkindly with him. A kindly tongue is the lodestone of the hearts of men. It is the bread of the spirit, it clotheth the words with meaning, it is the fountain of the light of wisdom and understanding….” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 289
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Let's stay on task. I never said anything about evidence. I was only responding to one comment and what I said is true...The scriptures that the Messengers reveal are accessible to everyone.
ADigitalArtist said: Sounds like a god, if it wants to be viewed as existing and impactful, should make such evidence accessible to everyone. Otherwise they shouldn't be surprised it's not convincing anyone who doesn't see any reason to consider those messengers divine.
The scriptures that the Messengers reveal are accessible to everyone.
rational experiences
Veteran Member
Human life is lived in a non choice reason for self presence.
Choice to attack gods human stated bodies by machine maths science inventions.
Reason to teach why a holy human baby only owning human parents became as an adult life sacrificed.
Then babies born proved human life sacrifice. Holy human.
To state not the God of science by human determination.
Science always claiming the lesser human form in any science thesis.
I.e. An ape and not human parents.
I.e. an alien being.
I.e. a Satan being.
The nuclear state dust converting nuclear image forming in clouds by feedback.
Natural clouds first seen image is smoking rolling as natural history....is not animal or human image.
Science by humans thesis always the sacrificed human non presence form.
Yet they are healthy fully owned human life.
So first human has to be fully owned first in thesis God states.
Mass.
Water ground oxygenated mass is earths God ground state. Thinning just above mountains.
Water mass proving separated life lives within the water body allowing free movement.
Mass stays static the mass.
Life from birds above us to ground life walking around.
Radiation at the ground state metals or machine bodies cooled by same oxygenated water.
Proof we never came from machine science thesis of humans reactions inside said machine.
If you quote God history as a man father speaking to us in and from a separate place. Then first father humans life was lived and died. Was earth heaven recorded.
The eternal body real uses recorded human life memories to communicate back to us. As our human parents holy children spiritual.
Men just human keep claiming father is now a God term.
Spiritual advice
Natural.
Humans first holy healthy proved science human chosen attacked sacrificed our life. Science caused lowered human form.
Choice to attack gods human stated bodies by machine maths science inventions.
Reason to teach why a holy human baby only owning human parents became as an adult life sacrificed.
Then babies born proved human life sacrifice. Holy human.
To state not the God of science by human determination.
Science always claiming the lesser human form in any science thesis.
I.e. An ape and not human parents.
I.e. an alien being.
I.e. a Satan being.
The nuclear state dust converting nuclear image forming in clouds by feedback.
Natural clouds first seen image is smoking rolling as natural history....is not animal or human image.
Science by humans thesis always the sacrificed human non presence form.
Yet they are healthy fully owned human life.
So first human has to be fully owned first in thesis God states.
Mass.
Water ground oxygenated mass is earths God ground state. Thinning just above mountains.
Water mass proving separated life lives within the water body allowing free movement.
Mass stays static the mass.
Life from birds above us to ground life walking around.
Radiation at the ground state metals or machine bodies cooled by same oxygenated water.
Proof we never came from machine science thesis of humans reactions inside said machine.
If you quote God history as a man father speaking to us in and from a separate place. Then first father humans life was lived and died. Was earth heaven recorded.
The eternal body real uses recorded human life memories to communicate back to us. As our human parents holy children spiritual.
Men just human keep claiming father is now a God term.
Spiritual advice
Natural.
Humans first holy healthy proved science human chosen attacked sacrificed our life. Science caused lowered human form.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Trailblazer said: We cannot infer from omnipotence and omniscience that God would do what it would take to convince everyone of his existence.
I never said that God could not do what it would take to convince everyone of his existence. In fact, on numerous posts I have explained that God could do just that, if He wanted to, and I explained why He does not do that, because He does not want to do it, and I have explained why God does not want to do it.
The reason why has made no discernible effort to show He exists to you is not because He either doesn't exist or doesn't care or because He is playing sadistic games. The reason why is because God expects you to search for Him and discover that He exists all by yourself, and that is one reason why God created you with a rational mind. God is not an evidence delivery boy.
Let's turn this around. Give me one good reason why God should prove to you that He exists, given you are perfectly capable of determining that for yourself?
There is no objective evidence that deities create humans in their image, but there is also no evidence that humans create deities in their image. Thus all you have is a personal opinion which is no better than my belief.
There is a logical reason why each and every one of those deities vary according to the the epoch and culture from which the stories about them emerged. It is because God reveals Himself through different Messengers in every age and God is revealed differently in different scriptures. Not only that but religious people misinterpret those scriptures and thus they believe that God is not who God is, such as believing that God became the man Jesus.
Human conceptions of God are not God, they are conceptions, and thus subject to error. Errors that humans make are in no way proof that there is not one true God, which is what I believe.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
If God is unknowable and inaccessible what is the difference between him and no God at all? It sounds like you are claiming to have an irrational belief since there is no way to confirm or refute it.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
And that is because you do not appear to understand the concept of evidence. Doing something because someone told you to is not a valid excuse.
I just jumped off the bridge because Timmy told me to. Not very convincing.
We Never Know
No Slack
There are many things in this world that are unknowable and inaccessible unless you are involved with it.
Does that mean they don't exist?
rational experiences
Veteran Member
Man science as science the state does not practice human spirituality.
Humans argue who choose to apply both conditions.
Yet as God O earth is first natural. Gods heavens is natural. A human is natural first. So science the con coerced by words.
Humans quote spiritual wisdom about God was only ever a natural humans experience.
It can never be a science.
Otherwise the theist just a human concluded they created life.
As a human conscious form the adult you did create life. Consciousness thin king tells you already.
So you challenge the theist. As we know first.
First science theory human sex for anyone today is by human for babies. Is sex in science studies.
No is the direct answer.
So consciousness human first just lied. Sex is why anyone is living today human.
As sex is why human life is created
Then the human baby adult self argues. No I will explain how the first two original human life was formed.
As a healthy human being.
As if you own rights and thesis to claim I invented their presence by my human thinking. As just a baby human.
In real life they are present. A spirit body image heaven recorded of first human life and voice. Once living now deceased.
So I ask you human. How did they emerge forwards from that known human baby aware status memory human back into organic life?
No status as water oxygen owns why a heavenly recorded memory exists recorded. What we live within ourselves.
Is what we are all consciously aware of first.
Then biology states a human living argument. Closest living lesser body life form apes.
Two concluded human evidences science does not own any human god theme.
Why natural human life argues versus science as science was first only satanic advice of humans living.
Humans argue who choose to apply both conditions.
Yet as God O earth is first natural. Gods heavens is natural. A human is natural first. So science the con coerced by words.
Humans quote spiritual wisdom about God was only ever a natural humans experience.
It can never be a science.
Otherwise the theist just a human concluded they created life.
As a human conscious form the adult you did create life. Consciousness thin king tells you already.
So you challenge the theist. As we know first.
First science theory human sex for anyone today is by human for babies. Is sex in science studies.
No is the direct answer.
So consciousness human first just lied. Sex is why anyone is living today human.
As sex is why human life is created
Then the human baby adult self argues. No I will explain how the first two original human life was formed.
As a healthy human being.
As if you own rights and thesis to claim I invented their presence by my human thinking. As just a baby human.
In real life they are present. A spirit body image heaven recorded of first human life and voice. Once living now deceased.
So I ask you human. How did they emerge forwards from that known human baby aware status memory human back into organic life?
No status as water oxygen owns why a heavenly recorded memory exists recorded. What we live within ourselves.
Is what we are all consciously aware of first.
Then biology states a human living argument. Closest living lesser body life form apes.
Two concluded human evidences science does not own any human god theme.
Why natural human life argues versus science as science was first only satanic advice of humans living.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Did you miss this part of the definition?
The Baháʼí teachings state that there is only one God and that his essence is absolutely inaccessible from the physical realm of existence and that, therefore, his reality is completely unknowable. Thus, all of humanity's conceptions of God which have been derived throughout history are mere manifestations of the human mind and not at all reflective of the nature of God's essence. While God's essence is inaccessible, a subordinate form of knowledge is available by way of mediation by divine messengers, known as Manifestations of God.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I certainly do understand what evidence is. It is the atheists who don't understand what evidence is.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Do you realize that this does not help you? Why is God so incompetent that he can only communicate with "prophets" that inevitably fail. If God can manifest to him why can't he manifest to you and me? How do you test your prophet to see if he is what he claims to be? Your God right now still sounds like a figment of your prophet's imagination at best.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
No, if you did people would not have to continually explain to you how you failed.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
There are many logical reasons why God does not manifest Himself to anyone except His Messengers/Prophets. I could explain them but I doubt it would make any difference to you. Let me know if you want to hear them.
The Messengers of God never fail, they always succeed, and that is why there are so many religions in the world.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
The fact that a few atheists believe that I failed in some way you did not even state is not an adequate reply to what I said but rather it is deflection.
I said: I certainly do understand what evidence is. It is the atheists who don't understand what evidence is.
Now tell me why I do not understand what evidence is or do not assert that I don't understand what evidence is.
I can certainly explain why atheists do not understand what evidence is. Otherwise I would not have said what I said.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Then I doubt if the are "logical".
If something is logical it should not (though we see that is often not the case when people have an emotional belief) though we see that is all to often not true with people that have an emotional investment in a concept, such as theists. matter who is looking at it. If it only convinces you and people others that make the same errors that you do then it is probably not logical.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
You keep getting ti wrong. Are you trying to misrepresent what happened? You made errors and they explained them to you. That is not mere belief. That is what you appear to have. You keep pretending that you are making rational arguments when you never can. Did you not notice that @Sheldon, a total newbie here, picked up that you were making the same errors that others have pointed out ad nauseum.
When everyone points out and explains that you are making the same errors it is time to begin to question yourself.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
But none of them met all five of the criteria I listed. Are you really going to compare a cult leader to Jesus Christ or Moses or Muhammad? There is no comparison whatsoever. These cult leaders are phonies and they are liars if they claim that God spoke to them because no God ever communicated anything to them. At best they are deluded.
The reason is because the Bible was written by unknown authors, men who never even knew the Messengers of God/prophets. Is anything in the Bible verifiable?
By contrast, the Bab and Baha'u'llah wrote their own scriptures and we have the originals.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I made no errors except in your own distorted perceptions. IF I had made any errors then you could tell me what they were so I could defend myself. Your accusing me without presenting any evidence is gravely unjust. Is this how any court of law would be conducted?
You have nothing more than mere disbelief, how is that different from mere belief?
You atheists do not even MAKE any arguments, let alone rational arguments, because you cannot even defend your position.
Who cares what a new atheist thinks of what I say? That does not prove a thing except that all atheists think alike. All my arguments are logical because they make sense given what God is but atheists cannot understand them because they have confirmation bias and are clueless about what God is.
If there were other believers who wanted to waste their time posting to atheists they would agree with me, so what would that prove? What does it prove that other atheists agree with you? Why do you keep repeating it as if it matters?
No, it is not everyone, it is a few atheists. No, it is not time to question myself because a few atheists disagree with me. Do you question yourself when a boatload of Christians disagree with you? Why would it be any different?