Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
I disagree with your conclusions and assumptions as they are wrong. Prop 22 is what business is functioning under.
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Interstate CDL License Bill Introduced In Senate
- Thread starter esmith
- Start date
esmith
Veteran Member
If Prop 22 has been struck down as per the article how can businesses be operating under it?
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
I don't know. Maybe it's only because it was a certain part of Prop22, but it's how things are going.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
The decision to strike down Prop22 has not affected me. AB5 effectively changed nothing for me when that happened.
Kooky
Freedom from Sanity
As much as they can, as is the primate of the Free Market (PBUI).
We don't have a free market. So how much should they make?
Kooky
Freedom from Sanity
I already answered your question: As much as they can.
Does this answer bother you?
I suppose we could say that of anyone in any system. Right?
So the question, given that money is not infinite, is what is a reasonable wage for the value of the work that a person does. I assume you wouldn't argue that we should pay McDonald's cashiers and neurosurgeons the same amount of money for their respective work, right?
So if $70K isn't a reasonable average wage for driving truck, what is?
Kooky
Freedom from Sanity
If they can negotiate those wages then why not? A company will always pay as little as it can get away with given the state of job markets and the social status of labor - so therefore, it is only just and fair for future employees to negotiate a wage as high as they can get away with, don't you think?
If the state of the job market is a legitimate justification to suppress wages below a living wage standard, then it should also be a legitimate justification to raise wages to comfortable levels for certain high, in demand jobs; otherwise, all we'd be argueing for would be wage suppression to the capitalist class's benefit.
I think that's nice in general, but there is a limit/range of reasonableness. I don't think entry level workers at fast food joints should make $10 million dollars a year while other more skilled and educated workers doing more complex and valuable work make less than that. Pay should be tied to the value of the work being done, within a range. Imagine the insanity of a job market where highly skilled work earns you no more money (or worse, less money) than unskilled work.
Oh, I agree we should raise wages to comfortable levels; $70K is quite comfortable for a mean salary in current US dollars. That's why I'm asking...if $70K isn't enough, what number would you say would be reasonable/comfortable?
For those who doubt any market freedom in truck driving,
consider the great variation due to type of driving, location,
employer, etc.
Truck Driver Salary
consider the great variation due to type of driving, location,
employer, etc.
Truck Driver Salary
Kooky
Freedom from Sanity
So you reject the capitalist system, where the value of jobs is determined via negotiation between employer and employee?
How would wages be determined in your preferred system?
Let me guess, you didn't graduate with a humanities degree.
The value of jobs isn't determined by negotiation in capitalism. The value of jobs is determined by supply and demand. Wages are determined as a function of a job's market value, usually within a negotiated range.
Let me guess, you didn't graduate with a humanities degree.
I graduated with a psychology degree, and also have a master's. Trust me, I'm not rolling in dough.
You agree, at least in principle, that unskilled labor should not be paid at the same rate as highly skilled labor, do you not?
Kooky
Freedom from Sanity
I don't think should and ought enter the equation when discussing market economics. I am firmly of the belief that what's good for the goose is good for the gander, and if we allow corporations to run roughshod over the working class and abuse every lever at their disposal to depress wages, it is only fair that the employee should be seizing any advantage they can get in this ludicrously lopsided conflict.
I also find it snobbish to look down on people with low paying jobs as less capable and less competent, and their work as less important. Every job requires a degree of skill and a range of competencies to be good at, we just have a habit of shoving people into low pay and low status jobs without caring very much whether they are any good at them, because the low cost of their wages is more important than any quality work they may or may not produce in their dead end positions.
(And that's before we get into the enormous issue of unpaid labor, which forms the bedrock of our society despite being valued in no way at all.)
Why not? Capitalist societies have should/ought discussions on economic questions all the time.
But beyond that, I was asking what you thought a fair wage would be in your world. You seem reticent to put a number on it, despite being apparently of the view that $70K is too low.
This is a very black/white understanding of the situation. There is a reasonable range within which negotiations about wages and working conditions occur.
I don't look down on people who have low skilled jobs at all. I simply recognize that realistically it makes sense that we reimburse people whose jobs require greater skill at higher rates than people whose jobs require less skill. Most people in low paying jobs are in jobs whose jobs require less skill, in broad strokes. If you think brain surgery requires the same skill and has the same value as an entry level fast food job...I really don't know what else to say? That's just not the case.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
That's basically America. I was still in poverty as a case manager in Indiana. In California if I'm lucky I could make $20/hour. Doing rideshare it's typically closer to and over $30/hour.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
Fast food is still among the hardest and most demanding jobs I've ever done. It's not brain surgery, but not a simple and easy job. It's called entry level, but the demands and pressures are beyond that, and it comes with a high risk of injury.
There are outliers, but the trend is that jobs that require more skill/experience and education are paid better than those that require less. And that's how it should be, IMO. Otherwise you're disincentivizing highly skilled work.
I never worked in fast food (I work at a clothing retailer for my first job), but I know several close friends and family who have. I don't know any of them who think they should make just as much now as they did then given the work they now do.