Is This Going To Become The Norm?

Watchmen said:

Maybe if masculinity wasn’t so demonized, someone would have stepped in to help.

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Rarely do I see masculinity victimized.

Shadow Wolf said:

Revoltingest seems to have a better understanding of the issue of police brutality and corruption. It is not a black and white issue, white males even need to be cautious and leery of the police, and there are groups more at risk than black people (like the Natives and the mentally ill). Women as well have their own concerns with the police, and even white women have been molested and raped.
Some forms of police training assert WE ARE ALL potential enemies and EACH ONE OF US is a potential threat that can endanger the cops life and wellbeing. That training doesn't consider race and it does consider EVERYONE a potential threat and enemy of the state.

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I do agree that, in the long run, policing is a demographic-wide problem, but it's difficult to look at the data showing disparities between white and black policing, place it in the context of race AND class in America, and not see a race issue (for blacks, since it is correct Native American populations suffer more in this) as well as a gender and class issue.

Guitar's Cry said:

I do agree that, in the long run, policing is a demographic-wide problem, but it's difficult to look at the data showing disparities between white and black policing, place it in the context of race AND class in America, and not see a race issue (for blacks, since it is correct Native American populations suffer more in this) as well as a gender and class issue.

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It's not that difficult. We just have to stop looking at it as a black and white issue, or else any progress will likely stop there. Much like how gay marriage was a hyper focus, it happened and a lot of people thought that was the end all-be all of LGBT rights. People think that battle was done amd over and won with gay marriage, but it was only a start. With the police we must discuss this as a collective issue because ultimately we are all at risk for a bad police encounter. Some are more at risk than others, true, but that isn't just an issue of skin color.

epronovost said:

There doesn't seem to be any clear effect on the gender of a bystander and their likeliness to come forth and help someone in danger. Some studies have shown men more likely to intervene in high-risk situation, but less likely to intervene in low-risk situation, but others have shown the opposite or inconclusiveness. In other words, the impact of gender on the bystander likeliness to intervene in low or high risk situation is still very murky.

At the same time, it was shown that both men were more likely to help a women in danger than another men while women show no special preference. In all cases, a person is more likely to receive help if there are just a few people; the fewer the better. The "bystander effect" is very well known and probably one of the main reason why people in the OP example didn't help.

https://scholarship.claremont.edu/cmc_theses/1016/

https://scholar.utc.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1367&context=mps#:~:text=It is likely that women,disappear in non-emergency situations.

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I already referenced diffusion of responsibility, but thanks for the dissertation.

Guitar's Cry said:

Rarely do I see masculinity victimized.

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Thanks for the anecdote.

Revoltingest said:

Oh, liberals...they always think they have all the
facts, & that any who dare disagree with them
must simply need The Truth to be delivered
from on high.
Generalizing from anecdotes, & obliviousness
to what I actually posted is unconvincing.

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Got it. You won't admit that when you called me out for not posting something and I posted it, you just changed the subject rather than admitting that my point was well-founded. I'm familiar with that "game".

esmith said:

Seems there are despicable people who would rather become a internet videomaker than come to the aid of their fellow human being.
In Philadelphia multiple people used their cell phones to record a man who groped and eventualy raped a woman. The incident laster for over 40 min and over two dozen train stops, yet no one came to the aid of the woman.
Train riders held up phones as woman was raped, police say

It also seems that the accused lowlife had overstayed his visa in 2015 and was put in immigration detention in 2018 but not deported but because he received a "withholding of removal" from an immigration judge in March 2019 after the Board of Immigration Appeals found that his misdemeanor sex offense was not a "serious crime" that would have made him ineligible for such a stay.
In addition court records show that he had multiple arrests.
Man accused of raping woman on crowded train was released from immigration detention, never deported

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Probably because people these days who do try to help tend to get burned for the trouble.

Most would just rather leave it for the police to handle so any unforseen repercussions, legal or otherwise, won't rebound back at them.

Watchmen said:

Thanks for the anecdote.

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Ditto!

Watchmen said:

Thanks for the anecdote.

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All you offered was an anecdote that seems more based on twitter lynch mob rantings than people out in the real world who may criticize unhealthy aspects of accepted masculinity but not masculinity as a whole.

Shadow Wolf said:

All you offered was an anecdote that seems more based on twitter lynch mob rantings than people out in the real world who may criticize unhealthy aspects of accepted masculinity but not masculinity as a whole.

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That’s a stretch. I’m not even on Twitter.

sun rise said:

Got it. You won't admit that when you called me out for not posting something and I posted it, you just changed the subject rather than admitting that my point was well-founded. I'm familiar with that "game".

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I think you've entirely missed the point of my post.
No point addressing your "dogged" attempt to "stray" from it.

esmith said:

Seems there are despicable people who would rather become a internet videomaker than come to the aid of their fellow human being.
In Philadelphia multiple people used their cell phones to record a man who groped and eventualy raped a woman. The incident laster for over 40 min and over two dozen train stops, yet no one came to the aid of the woman.
Train riders held up phones as woman was raped, police say

It also seems that the accused lowlife had overstayed his visa in 2015 and was put in immigration detention in 2018 but not deported but because he received a "withholding of removal" from an immigration judge in March 2019 after the Board of Immigration Appeals found that his misdemeanor sex offense was not a "serious crime" that would have made him ineligible for such a stay.
In addition court records show that he had multiple arrests.
Man accused of raping woman on crowded train was released from immigration detention, never deported

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But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days.
People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy,
without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good,treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God—having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.

Watchmen said:

That’s a stretch. I’m not even on Twitter.

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I don't think it is a stretch. I meet a bunch of different people and masculinity isn't something I really hear criticized. Not going to a doctor definitely. Not expressing emotions I also hear criticized. But masculinity itself I just don't see it as a target that much. I hear about it on the internet and RW media, but in the real world it just doesn't seem to much exist.

Shadow Wolf said:

I don't think it is a stretch. I meet a bunch of different people and masculinity isn't something I really hear criticized. Not going to a doctor definitely. Not expressing emotions I also hear criticized. But masculinity itself I just don't see it as a target that much. I hear about it on the internet and RW media, but in the real world it just doesn't seem to much exist.

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Ok

There are so many disgraceful posts in this topic, from individuals who lack honor. Some have reasonably asked: “Rape is horrible, why would people not attack the rapist and help this woman?”, but you have responded with: “Why are you so bigoted and hateful towards immigrants...? White people are 10x worse in every way.” You dismiss the atrocity and leap to the defense of the enemy. Race and nationality have nothing to do with this.

So, I am going to say my peace and then leave this topic, because it is obvious to me that for many people there is no hope at all of seeing clearly ever again.

You have been so emasculated, so stripped of your dignity... you lack the pride in your people, your culture, your home, that you have no will to defend these things when they are in danger.

If it was your mother, your sister, your wife or your daughter on that train getting raped... I would not care what the rapist’s immigration status is or his ethnicity. I would end him, or at the very least leave him wounded and gasping for air. Zero regrets. The world would be a better place for it. Your family would have it’s justice, the threat to the community would be eliminated, and order restored.

I would hope that if it was someone I loved who was on that train getting raped, then one of you would step in and end it... or at least try. But that would be expecting too much, wouldn’t it?

Maybe it is becoming the norm. Another incident happend in Atlanta GA.
From Atlanta
Officers typically get the information they need from dispatchers when responding to an active shooter situation, but Atlanta's mayor and police chief said the city's 911 center received little information on the incident Wednesday morning compared to what they discovered on social media. Too many people watched and recorded video of the incident on their phones and not enough people called 911, they said.

Aštra’el said:

If it was your mother, your sister, your wife or your daughter on that train getting raped... I would not care what the rapist’s immigration status is or his ethnicity. I would end him, or at the very least leave him wounded and gasping for air. Zero regrets.

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Good (ish) intentions are fine but unless you find yourself in that kind of situation, you don't know how you'd actually respond. As has already been explained, the psychology of this kind of thing is more complex than you might give credit for.

esmith said:

Maybe it is becoming the norm. Another incident happend in Atlanta GA.

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Much like the OP case, this isn't really evidence of changing behaviour though. I'm not convinced the police would have received any more 911 calls for this kind of incident in the past. The recording and posting on social media is relatively new, but only because that has only recently become technically possible. In the past, people would have watched then talked about it to their mates at the bar later.

HonestJoe said:

Much like the OP case, this isn't really evidence of changing behaviour though. I'm not convinced the police would have received any more 911 calls for this kind of incident in the past. The recording and posting on social media is relatively new, but only because that has only recently become technically possible. In the past, people would have watched then talked about it to their mates at the bar later.

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Getting to a phone was more inconvenient back then. Today those people filming are using a damn mobile phone. There is no excuse. To film instead of getting help is inhumane and anti-social at the absolute best. It's also cruel and inhumane to the victim(s) to stand by and film and plaster it all over social media. Sure, you can't always actually intervene but this is a new level social cruelty and neglect of social responsibilities.

Shadow Wolf said:

Getting to a phone was more inconvenient back then. Today those people filming are using a damn mobile phone. There is no excuse. To film instead of getting help is inhumane and anti-social at the absolute best. It's also cruel and inhumane to the victim(s) to stand by and film and plaster it all over social media. Sure, you can't always actually intervene but this is a new level social cruelty and neglect of social responsibilities.

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There aren't many places in public were we aren't on a camera somewhere whether they are public or private or phone

People are always looking to capture the perfect news or youtube video.