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Question about John 5:25 and John 5:28-29.Dead people hear Jesus's voice while still dead?

Soapy

Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
Oh please! Jesus didn't create an allegorical afterlife just to make a point. And in the other parables, the settings were true to life. They were not fantasy world's.
You keep believing the lie.

Scriptures tells us of your kind!!

You cannot help it / the nature of sin devours you!
 

lostwanderingsoul

Well-Known Member
You keep believing the lie.

Scriptures tells us of your kind!!

You cannot help it / the nature of sin devours you!
You keep talking about scripture but you never quote any that say souls or spirits are immortal or that say something that is immortal can be destroyed. Back yur views with Bible verses and you may be believed.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Thank you. You had a lot of information in your post. I am still sorting it out and will try to respond soon. Let me just ask quickly. If yu have been reading posts from "soapy" he talks about things that are immortal but can be destroyed. I feel that something immortal cannot die and if something is destroyed it would have to be dead. Any thoughts?
I read enough from Soapy to know that he's not someone I would be able to have a civil dialogue with. I have little patience with know-it-alls. My main problem in trying to communicate with Soapy was that he got too focused on words and not enough on meanings. To me, it's important to get to the bottom of what someone is trying to say and not just to get them to parrot your words. Soapy didn't like the fact that I don't use the word "dead soul." I think it's meaningless. I agreed with him that a soul is a person but it's only a person in which a spirit dwells, giving life to what would otherwise be nothing more than a shell.

I would have to agree with you that if something is immortal, it cannot die, and it certainly makes logical sense that is someone that was once living is destroyed, it would have to be dead.

Do you believe souls or spirits or anything else is immortal? Of course God is immortal, but anything else? I do appreciate your input and find much of it very informative and useful. Thanks.[/QUOTE]In the Wisdom of Solomon 2:23, we read, "For God created man to be immortal, and made him to be an image of his own eternity." That should probably answer your question. On the other hand, we know that we will all eventually die. So, is this a contradiction? I don't believe so. We were created first, to be mortal, and then later, to be immortal.
 

Soapy

Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
I read enough from Soapy to know that he's not someone I would be able to have a civil dialogue with. I have little patience with know-it-alls. My main problem in trying to communicate with Soapy was that he got too focused on words and not enough on meanings. To me, it's important to get to the bottom of what someone is trying to say and not just to get them to parrot your words. Soapy didn't like the fact that I don't use the word "dead soul." I think it's meaningless. I agreed with him that a soul is a person but it's only a person in which a spirit dwells, giving life to what would otherwise be nothing more than a shell.

I would have to agree with you that if something is immortal, it cannot die, and it certainly makes logical sense that is someone that was once living is destroyed, it would have to be dead.

Do you believe souls or spirits or anything else is immortal? Of course God is immortal, but anything else? I do appreciate your input and find much of it very informative and useful. Thanks.
In the Wisdom of Solomon 2:23, we read, "For God created man to be immortal, and made him to be an image of his own eternity." That should probably answer your question. On the other hand, we know that we will all eventually die. So, is this a contradiction? I don't believe so. We were created first, to be mortal, and then later, to be immortal.
Katzpur: Solomon is speaking of Adam BEFORE HE SINNED. I will explain later… but quickly: Sin makes the body subject to death … before Adam sinned there was to be no death - but Adam did sin. That is what Solomon is saying.

Ok….

My take is that you two are ‘dead’ to reality!!

I explained to you both that ‘DEAD’ is a human concept - but you both prefer to ignore that very importance of the MEANINGS of’Dead’ and ‘Destroyed’.
  • ‘Dead’…. No longer functional
  • ‘Destroyed’…. No longer EXISTING
For sure, if destroyed the entity is also nonfunctional… but do you see any difference in that if it is NON-existent then there is no call for a term ‘Dead’!!!

Moreover, ‘Dead’, in spiritual terms, in God’s eyes, is merely ‘RESTING’, inert, inactive, dormant…

Deadin human terms means ‘No longer able to interact in the LIVING WORLD.’ We cannot interact with a DEAD PERSON… a DEAD SOUL.

At present you are only thinking in human terms and so confuse what is being told to you!

Unless you understand the MEANINGS of the words used in the spiritual sense you will never understand the truth. This is exactly what Jesus told the Jews and his disciples: everything he spoke must be taken in the SPIRITUAL SENSE!

When ‘I’ use the word ‘IMMORTAL’ and EXPLAINED that it meant ‘CANNOT DIE’, I said that THE SOUL (the person) CANNOT DIE… because I am speaking OF THE SPIRIT of the person…

The SPIRIT cannot DIE. A spirit IS NOT SUBJECT TO DEATH!!! Death is only pertaining to a FLESHLY THING!!

SPIRIT is not FLESH!!!

The flesh dies and decays back to dust but the spirit LIVES ON… unless it is DESTROYED!

However, when the FLESH is made IMMORTAL it becomes like the SPIRIT. It WILL NEVER DIE nor be DESTROYED….

Why?

The only reason the body is subject to death is, because of Adam, it became subject to sin… and sin brings DEATH!!
  • “Because you have [sinned]… By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return.” (Gen 3:19)
If Adam had not sinned there would have been NO DEATH OF THE BODY!!

Because ALL HUMANITY (except Jesus Christ) are offsprings of Adam, all humanity is subject to sin!!

BECAUSE by the very nature of being MADE IMMORTAL the person CAN NO LONGER SIN!
The soul is NO LONGER SUBJECT TO SINNING…

Jesus was subject to sinning before his body was made immortal. After he was raised up GOD MADE HIM NO LONGER SUBJECT TO SINNING.

SO, an IMMORTAL SOUL remains IMMORTAL BECAUSE IF US NO LONGER SUBJECT to SIN.

This means: IMMORTAL IN BODY and IMMORTAL IN SPIRIT.

If you cannot understand what is written above you will never understand the truth and reality of what you are debating. You will remain in ignorance forever asking for answers and receiving none!!

And yes, you will enjoy the pleasure of no answer and continual debate that leads to nowhere!!

Happy nonsensing, you two!!
 
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lostwanderingsoul

Well-Known Member
I read enough from Soapy to know that he's not someone I would be able to have a civil dialogue with. I have little patience with know-it-alls. My main problem in trying to communicate with Soapy was that he got too focused on words and not enough on meanings. To me, it's important to get to the bottom of what someone is trying to say and not just to get them to parrot your words. Soapy didn't like the fact that I don't use the word "dead soul." I think it's meaningless. I agreed with him that a soul is a person but it's only a person in which a spirit dwells, giving life to what would otherwise be nothing more than a shell.

I would have to agree with you that if something is immortal, it cannot die, and it certainly makes logical sense that is someone that was once living is destroyed, it would have to be dead.

Do you believe souls or spirits or anything else is immortal? Of course God is immortal, but anything else? I do appreciate your input and find much of it very informative and useful. Thanks.
In the Wisdom of Solomon 2:23, we read, "For God created man to be immortal, and made him to be an image of his own eternity." That should probably answer your question. On the other hand, we know that we will all eventually die. So, is this a contradiction? I don't believe so. We were created first, to be mortal, and then later, to be immortal. [/QUOTE]
Thank you. Your ideas are very reasonable. I will give more detailed reply soon.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
it looks like to me that people can hear Jesus's voice but are still dead

And that they will come back to life later:)From what Jesus says.What is your opinion?:)
Oxymorons

What is meant here:

People who are not yet enlightened, but who grope in the dark of sense enjoyment, will one day hear "the Voice within". That will be the day they get the chance to come alive, before they were dead (to the Spiritual Truth), even while physical alive
 

lostwanderingsoul

Well-Known Member
I read enough from Soapy to know that he's not someone I would be able to have a civil dialogue with. I have little patience with know-it-alls. My main problem in trying to communicate with Soapy was that he got too focused on words and not enough on meanings. To me, it's important to get to the bottom of what someone is trying to say and not just to get them to parrot your words. Soapy didn't like the fact that I don't use the word "dead soul." I think it's meaningless. I agreed with him that a soul is a person but it's only a person in which a spirit dwells, giving life to what would otherwise be nothing more than a shell.

I would have to agree with you that if something is immortal, it cannot die, and it certainly makes logical sense that is someone that was once living is destroyed, it would have to be dead.

Do you believe souls or spirits or anything else is immortal? Of course God is immortal, but anything else? I do appreciate your input and find much of it very informative and useful. Thanks.
In the Wisdom of Solomon 2:23, we read, "For God created man to be immortal, and made him to be an image of his own eternity." That should probably answer your question. On the other hand, we know that we will all eventually die. So, is this a contradiction? I don't believe so. We were created first, to be mortal, and then later, to be immortal. [/QUOTE]
Sorry to take so long and you will probably find this hard to agree with. It is based on two Bible verses. I Cor 15:53 says that this mortal must put on immortality. Now I may not fully understand what "put on" means but the verse tells me that I am not immortal but something might happen that could give me immortality. And Romans 6:23 says that the gift of God is eternal life, I think eternal life is the same as immortality so it is a gift that God may or may not give to someone. Do you remember the old VHS tapes that were popular a few years ago? You could make a movie of someone and then plat rhe tape in a machine and see everything you recorded. But the tape without the machine is useless. It is just a piece of tape. I see the spirit as being like a VHS tape. All of a person's life is recorded on the spirit. When the body dies, the spirit comes out of the body just like the tape comes out of the machine. God then holds these spirits like Blockbuster held VHS tapes in it's stores. The tapes by themselves are useless. They have to be put in the machine. And the tapes at Blockbuster have no knowledge of what is on them. They are not aware of what may be going on around them and they cannot talk to one another. I think what you call the spirit world is God's storage room where he keeps all the spirits of dead people. The spirits are not aware of what is going on and cannot talk to each other. My dear departed grandmother cannot look down and see me and feel pride about my life. Oh yes, third Bible verse Eccl 9:5 the dead know nothing. If my grandmother is aware of my life, then she knows something. So what is going to happen in the future? Jesus said he is coming back to earth and will raise the dead from their graves. I believe he will bring the spirits with him and put them back in the bodies. Just like putting tapes back in a tape playing machine. Everyone will them be judged and those found worthy with receive God's gift of immortality. Those not worthy will be destroyed in the lake of fire, They will not receive immortality. I am sure you will have fun picking this apart and pointing out my errors. Thanks for listening.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
I'm not here to pick anybody's beliefs apart. I'm sorry you got that impression of me. But I would like to ask you one question. How does your belief that they spirit of a person knows nothing and can communicate with no one jive with the fact that the Bible tells us Jesus visited the spirits of the dead during the three days His body lay in the tomb? Do you believe there was any point to His having preached His gospel to them if they were unable to listen, hear and do something with the information He shared with them?
 
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Soapy

Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
:rolleyes: Keep telling yourself that, Soapy. Why in the world would I listen to you, of all people?
Yes, Katzpur, they said the same to Jesus Christ…. In fact, they KILLED HIM for telling them the truth so they could get back to their endless debate that led to nowhere!!!

Thank you for your reaction to my comments. It exactly reflects the mindset of the ‘spiritually dead soul’.
 

Soapy

Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
In the Wisdom of Solomon 2:23, we read, "For God created man to be immortal, and made him to be an image of his own eternity." That should probably answer your question. On the other hand, we know that we will all eventually die. So, is this a contradiction? I don't believe so. We were created first, to be mortal, and then later, to be immortal.
Sorry to take so long and you will probably find this hard to agree with. It is based on two Bible verses. I Cor 15:53 says that this mortal must put on immortality. Now I may not fully understand what "put on" means but the verse tells me that I am not immortal but something might happen that could give me immortality. And Romans 6:23 says that the gift of God is eternal life, I think eternal life is the same as immortality so it is a gift that God may or may not give to someone. Do you remember the old VHS tapes that were popular a few years ago? You could make a movie of someone and then plat rhe tape in a machine and see everything you recorded. But the tape without the machine is useless. It is just a piece of tape. I see the spirit as being like a VHS tape. All of a person's life is recorded on the spirit. When the body dies, the spirit comes out of the body just like the tape comes out of the machine. God then holds these spirits like Blockbuster held VHS tapes in it's stores. The tapes by themselves are useless. They have to be put in the machine. And the tapes at Blockbuster have no knowledge of what is on them. They are not aware of what may be going on around them and they cannot talk to one another. I think what you call the spirit world is God's storage room where he keeps all the spirits of dead people. The spirits are not aware of what is going on and cannot talk to each other. My dear departed grandmother cannot look down and see me and feel pride about my life. Oh yes, third Bible verse Eccl 9:5 the dead know nothing. If my grandmother is aware of my life, then she knows something. So what is going to happen in the future? Jesus said he is coming back to earth and will raise the dead from their graves. I believe he will bring the spirits with him and put them back in the bodies. Just like putting tapes back in a tape playing machine. Everyone will them be judged and those found worthy with receive God's gift of immortality. Those not worthy will be destroyed in the lake of fire, They will not receive immortality. I am sure you will have fun picking this apart and pointing out my errors. Thanks for listening.
I think you have wonderfully put positiveness of truth to the subject. Whether you and Katzpur hate my approach or just don’t like hearing the truth, you have nonetheless reflected what I said:
Do you remember I said to think of the spirit like a computer programme. And think of the body as the computer. Well, you have just done the same with a vhs machine and a vhs tape. The tape contains active INFORMATION that can only be ACTIVATED when it is in a machine. Lijewise, the computer programme stored on a disk, tape, data stick, or any storage device, is INACTIVE and only able to ACTIVATE ANYTHING when it is in a computer device. The computer device BY ITSEIF CAN DO NOTHING… the body BY ITSELF CAN DO NOTHING… both will just decay back to rust and dust unless a SPIRIT is put in it where upon the SPIRIT will analyse the device and inform a WATCHER that there is a need for repair or (like a laptop of mobile phone… needs FEEDING with energy / Food).

So, it us the spirit, which, properly stored (sleeping with God) CANNOT DIE … the vhs tape, properly stored, will not corrode (scientifically: in airless container, away from light, surrounded by inert gas : argon, for instance, ray shielded… ‘If we know how to protect our earthly systems - how much more can our creator more greatly protect our spirit….!)

Do you see that, in God’s protection, the Spirit IS IMMORTAL. It cannot decay and DIE…..!!

BUT IT CAN BE DESTROYED….!!!!

No matter what the protection FROM DECAY AND DYING… the stored material CAN BE DESTROYED!

I think YOU AND Katzpur just do not want to understand the difference between something ABLE TO DIE (IMMORTAL) and something able to be DESTROYED.

Yet you RIGHTLY point that out in your example…

How? Why?

Is it you just don’t like hearing the truth FROM ME… I’m sorry, but telling the truth is what I do… shoot me for it: Like they did with Stephen: you make me a martyr!!
 
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Soapy

Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
Sorry to take so long and you will probably find this hard to agree with. It is based on two Bible verses. I Cor 15:53 says that this mortal must put on immortality. Now I may not fully understand what "put on" means but the verse tells me that I am not immortal but something might happen that could give me immortality. And Romans 6:23 says that the gift of God is eternal life, I think eternal life is the same as immortality so it is a gift that God may or may not give to someone. Do you remember the old VHS tapes that were popular a few years ago? You could make a movie of someone and then plat rhe tape in a machine and see everything you recorded. But the tape without the machine is useless. It is just a piece of tape. I see the spirit as being like a VHS tape. All of a person's life is recorded on the spirit. When the body dies, the spirit comes out of the body just like the tape comes out of the machine. God then holds these spirits like Blockbuster held VHS tapes in it's stores. The tapes by themselves are useless. They have to be put in the machine. And the tapes at Blockbuster have no knowledge of what is on them. They are not aware of what may be going on around them and they cannot talk to one another. I think what you call the spirit world is God's storage room where he keeps all the spirits of dead people. The spirits are not aware of what is going on and cannot talk to each other. My dear departed grandmother cannot look down and see me and feel pride about my life. Oh yes, third Bible verse Eccl 9:5 the dead know nothing. If my grandmother is aware of my life, then she knows something. So what is going to happen in the future? Jesus said he is coming back to earth and will raise the dead from their graves. I believe he will bring the spirits with him and put them back in the bodies. Just like putting tapes back in a tape playing machine. Everyone will them be judged and those found worthy with receive God's gift of immortality. Those not worthy will be destroyed in the lake of fire, They will not receive immortality. I am sure you will have fun picking this apart and pointing out my errors. Thanks for listening.
I'm not here to pick anybody's beliefs apart. I'm sorry you got that impression of me. But I would like to ask you one question. How does your belief that they spirit of a person knows nothing and can communicate with no one jive with the fact that the Bible tells us Jesus visited the spirits of the dead during the three days His body lay in the tomb? Do you believe there was any point to His having preached His gospel to them if they were unable to listen, hear and do something with the information He shared with them?
Adam was created IMMORTAL.

He BECAME MORTAL when he sinned.

It is sin that creates the corruption.

How you cannot understand what the wisest man, Solomon, said…. Because you deny the truth and prefer the lie …

Adam was created BY GOD!

God does not create corruptible matter in his image!!!

It is because of the FREE-WILL in Adam that caused him to sin and CAUSE CORRUPTION to come into him. He therefore BECAME MORTAL and because he is the Father of all in humanity, mortality is in all human beings (except Jesus Christ who was not created from the seed of Adam!!)

So, therefore, when those that are ‘born again, truly born again, in Christ, will be NO LONGER ABLE TO SIN and thus will be INCORRUPTIBLE… and the incorruptible IS IMMORTAL!!
 
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lostwanderingsoul

Well-Known Member
Sorry to take so long and you will probably find this hard to agree with. It is based on two Bible verses. I Cor 15:53 says that this mortal must put on immortality. Now I may not fully understand what "put on" means but the verse tells me that I am not immortal but something might happen that could give me immortality. And Romans 6:23 says that the gift of God is eternal life, I think eternal life is the same as immortality so it is a gift that God may or may not give to someone. Do you remember the old VHS tapes that were popular a few years ago? You could make a movie of someone and then plat rhe tape in a machine and see everything you recorded. But the tape without the machine is useless. It is just a piece of tape. I see the spirit as being like a VHS tape. All of a person's life is recorded on the spirit. When the body dies, the spirit comes out of the body just like the tape comes out of the machine. God then holds these spirits like Blockbuster held VHS tapes in it's stores. The tapes by themselves are useless. They have to be put in the machine. And the tapes at Blockbuster have no knowledge of what is on them. They are not aware of what may be going on around them and they cannot talk to one another. I think what you call the spirit world is God's storage room where he keeps all the spirits of dead people. The spirits are not aware of what is going on and cannot talk to each other. My dear departed grandmother cannot look down and see me and feel pride about my life. Oh yes, third Bible verse Eccl 9:5 the dead know nothing. If my grandmother is aware of my life, then she knows something. So what is going to happen in the future? Jesus said he is coming back to earth and will raise the dead from their graves. I believe he will bring the spirits with him and put them back in the bodies. Just like putting tapes back in a tape playing machine. Everyone will them be judged and those found worthy with receive God's gift of immortality. Those not worthy will be destroyed in the lake of fire, They will not receive immortality. I am sure you will have fun picking this apart and pointing out my errors. Thanks for listening.
I'm not here to pick anybody's beliefs apart. I'm sorry you got that impression of me. But I would like to ask you one question. How does your belief that they spirit of a person knows nothing and can communicate with no one jive with the fact that the Bible tells us Jesus visited the spirits of the dead during the three days His body lay in the tomb? Do you believe there was any point to His having preached His gospel to them if they were unable to listen, hear and do something with the information He shared with them?[/QUOTE]
Sorry, I did not really think you would make fun of my beliefs. But there are some out there who might. As to your question. I think you are talking about I Peter 3:19 It says Jesus preached to spirits in prison. Can we be really sure this was during the three days Jesus was in the tomb? It does not say that. Can we be really sure these were spirits in Hades or Hell? It does not really say that. There is mention of Noah and the ark. Maybe Jesus was preaching to spirits at that time. Or some people today say have heard a message from God. Maybe Jesus is speaking to them. Maybe "in prison" means spirits still imprisoned in the mortal bodies of living people. In other words, the verse is very vague. It simply says Jesus preached to some spirits at some time and in some place. The verse that says the dead know nothing is not vague. It is very clear. The dead do not know what is going on in the world. Now, which verse would you trust more? One that is very clear or one that is not clear at all? I prefer the clear verse. So I will ask one question. What do you think the verse "the dead know nothing" means? Does it mean they actually know something? Or are they like a tape without a machine to play it? Are they waiting for the return of Jesus to give them new life?
 

lostwanderingsoul

Well-Known Member
Adam was created IMMORTAL.

He BECAME MORTAL when he sinned.

It is sin that creates the corruption.

How you cannot understand what the wisest man, Solomon, said…. Because you deny the truth and prefer the lie …

Adam was created BY GOD!

God does not create corruptible matter in his image!!!

It is because of the FREE-WILL in Adam that caused him to sin and CAUSE CORRUPTION to come into him. He therefore BECAME MORTAL and because he is the Father of all in humanity, mortality is in all human beings (except Jesus Christ who was not created from the seed of Adam!!)

So, therefore, when those that are ‘born again, truly born again, in Christ, will be NO LONGER ABLE TO SIN and thus will be INCORRUPTIBLE… and the incorruptible IS IMMORTAL!!
Soapy, I am starting to like you more. Adam was created to be immortal. He was told that if he ate the fruit of a certain tree he would die. He ate the fruit and lost his immortality. I think we were so hung up on the word immortal that we did not see the truth behind it. You kept saying that something immortal could not die but could be destroyed. And I kept saying if it was destroyed it would be dead and therfore not immortal. But that distracted us from the real subject. So let me ask you what I asked katzpur. Do you think my dear departed grandmother can look down and see me today and know what is going on in my life. Or is she like the VHS tape sitting on a shelf somewhere and has no thoughts or feelings. I think our ideas are much closer that I did at first because of the silly word immortal.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Sorry, I did not really think you would make fun of my beliefs. But there are some out there who might. As to your question. I think you are talking about I Peter 3:19 It says Jesus preached to spirits in prison. Can we be really sure this was during the three days Jesus was in the tomb? It does not say that. Can we be really sure these were spirits in Hades or Hell? It does not really say that. There is mention of Noah and the ark. Maybe Jesus was preaching to spirits at that time. Or some people today say have heard a message from God. Maybe Jesus is speaking to them. Maybe "in prison" means spirits still imprisoned in the mortal bodies of living people. In other words, the verse is very vague. It simply says Jesus preached to some spirits at some time and in some place. The verse that says the dead know nothing is not vague. It is very clear. The dead do not know what is going on in the world. Now, which verse would you trust more? One that is very clear or one that is not clear at all? I prefer the clear verse. So I will ask one question. What do you think the verse "the dead know nothing" means? Does it mean they actually know something? Or are they like a tape without a machine to play it? Are they waiting for the return of Jesus to give them new life?
To me, "the dead" is referring to the mortal body of an individual who has died (i.e, brain activity has stopped, his heart is no longer beating, etc.). That is the body we bury in the ground, and because the spirit which gave it life has left it, it no longer knows anything, nor is it aware of anything. My belief is that "the dead know nothing" is speaking of the dead body.
 

Soapy

Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
I'm not here to pick anybody's beliefs apart. I'm sorry you got that impression of me. But I would like to ask you one question. How does your belief that they spirit of a person knows nothing and can communicate with no one jive with the fact that the Bible tells us Jesus visited the spirits of the dead during the three days His body lay in the tomb? Do you believe there was any point to His having preached His gospel to them if they were unable to listen, hear and do something with the information He shared with them?
Sorry, I did not really think you would make fun of my beliefs. But there are some out there who might. As to your question. I think you are talking about I Peter 3:19 It says Jesus preached to spirits in prison. Can we be really sure this was during the three days Jesus was in the tomb? It does not say that. Can we be really sure these were spirits in Hades or Hell? It does not really say that. There is mention of Noah and the ark. Maybe Jesus was preaching to spirits at that time. Or some people today say have heard a message from God. Maybe Jesus is speaking to them. Maybe "in prison" means spirits still imprisoned in the mortal bodies of living people. In other words, the verse is very vague. It simply says Jesus preached to some spirits at some time and in some place. The verse that says the dead know nothing is not vague. It is very clear. The dead do not know what is going on in the world. Now, which verse would you trust more? One that is very clear or one that is not clear at all? I prefer the clear verse. So I will ask one question. What do you think the verse "the dead know nothing" means? Does it mean they actually know something? Or are they like a tape without a machine to play it? Are they waiting for the return of Jesus to give them new life?
Not only but also… Why is it in that passage … the passage about Jesus being dead in the grave?

I will tell you why?

Trinitarians want to say that Jesus WAS NOT DEAD … while he was dead!!!

I get it posted to me all the time wherein they say he was STILL LIVING because how else would he go to preach to those in prison because they did not know the law at that time!!

So, you may be right that it is just a spurious claim that has no evidence of a location in time that can be justified… only Trinitarians use it to make their outlandish claims.

Remember that Jesus COMMITTED HIS SPIRIT TO THE FATHER. This means he was no longer in control… ipso facto, his spirit, like all human spirits, was RESTING, INERT, DORMANT… with God.
 
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