Police, vaccinated or not!

metis · Oct 19, 2021

Twilight Hue said:
You can try the stupid guilting garbage on someone else. It dosent work on me.

LOL! If you say so?

I've been through this before through personal experiences.

Twilight Hue said:
I defend people's freedom of choice. It's too bad you don't respect freedom of choice or individual liberty.

No, you are acting is a self-centered manner whereas it appears other people really don't much matter to you as far as covid is concerned. And what you simply don't get is that union contracts vary, thus whether there's an opening clause for renegociations may or may not be included. Even if it is, what it covers is also another variable. This is not rocket science.

Thus, "wildcat strikes" may be called, but they do present risks to the workers. I know as I was in a dandy one of these almost 50 years ago for three weeks, and it was scary let me tell ya.

Twilight Hue said:
I don't think stooping gets any lower than disregarding that freedom so I'm still a bar higher than you are on that level.

Keep telling yourself that, as I'm sure you will.

Valjean · Oct 19, 2021

I wonder if Typhoid Twilight also defends the freedom to drive 80 MPH through residential districts, dumping trash or used motor oil down the storm drains, or having loud, all night parties in residential yard? Is his anti-social anarchy consistent, or are there still a few rules he supports?

You cannot life in a society without restrictions. When your "freedom" afflicts or endangers other people, there is legitimate cause to regulate it.
If you want perfect freedom, go live alone in the woods.

JustGeorge · Oct 19, 2021

**Moved to COVID 19**

Stevicus · Oct 19, 2021

Valjean said:
or having loud, all night parties in residential yard?

As long as they invite me, I'm okay with that.

Twilight Hue · Oct 19, 2021

Valjean said:
I wonder if Typhoid Twilight also defends the freedom to drive 80 MPH through residential districts, dumping trash or used motor oil down the storm drains, or having loud, all night parties in residential yard? Is his anti-social anarchy consistent, or are there still a few rules he supports?

You cannot life in a society without restrictions. When your freedom" afflicts or endangers other people, there is legitimate cause to regulate it.
If you want perfect freedom, go live alone in the woods.

I live around a bunch of bikers and wannabe musicians.

That's just having a normal life around here!

OK they arn't that bad, but u get the pic I'm sure.

Besides I'm vaccinated. So there. :0p

Twilight Hue · Oct 19, 2021

Stevicus said:
As long as they invite me, I'm okay with that.

Beer. There's a lot of beer.

Revoltingest · Oct 19, 2021

Suave said:
I'm highly concerned about the shortage of police officers already, and the shortage of recruits. Seems to me, few people want to join the force. Police officers nowadays for whatever reasons are not afraid to loose their jobs. Unfortunately, the city is not in a strong position to employ only those willing to be vaccinated. **Me let's out big sigh**. Like it or not, I suppose we might be stuck with having unvaccinated police officers serving our community. I'm so glad, at least 90 percent of my community's adult population is well immune against C.O.V.I.D.-19 by either being vaccinated or having natural immunity from having been infected with SARS-Cov2. I suppose many of our police officers might be well immune against SARS-Cov2 by having gotten C.O.V.I.D.-19.; Hopefully, that might finally bode well now for our community's health and safety.

Consider that we'd be getting rid of the dumbest cops,
ie, the ones who'd rather be unemployed than get
vaccinated against a deadly disease. That's not all bad.

InChrist · Oct 26, 2021

Revoltingest said:
Consider that we'd be getting rid of the dumbest cops,
ie, the ones who'd rather be unemployed than get
vaccinated against a deadly disease. That's not all bad.

Or maybe it’s the loss of the smartest, most ethical police officers. According to Dr. Jay Bhattacharya, an epidemiologist at Stanford the Covid vaccines are primarily a matter of one’s personal health, rather than public health, since according to this study below they do not contribute to herd immunity...

Waning of BNT162b2 vaccine protection against SARS-CoV-2 infection in Qatar

Also published in the New England a Journal of Medicine...

https://www.nejm.org/doi/10.1056/NEJMoa2114114

For more information about about
Dr. Jay Bhattacharya and his research...

From the very beginning of the COVID-19 crisis, Dr. Jay Bhattacharya has been on the front lines of analyzing, studying, and even personally fighting the pandemic. In this wide-ranging interview, Dr. Bhattacharya takes us through how it started, how it spread throughout the world, the efficacy of lockdowns, the development and distribution of the vaccines, and the rise of the Delta variant. He delves into what we got right, what we got wrong, and what we got really wrong. Finally, Dr. Bhattacharya looks to the future and how we will learn to live with COVID rather than trying to extinguish it, and how we might be prepared to deal with another inevitable pandemic that we know will arrive at some point.

https://www.hoover.org/research/what-happened-dr-jay-bhattacharya-19-months-covid-0

Revoltingest · Oct 26, 2021

InChrist said:
Or maybe it’s the loss of the smartest, most ethical police officers.

Unlikely.
Your links are a good argument for booster shots.
Not an argument against vaccination.

Subduction Zone · Oct 26, 2021

InChrist said:
Or maybe it’s the loss of the smartest, most ethical police officers. According to Dr. Jay Bhattacharya, an epidemiologist at Stanford the Covid vaccines are primarily a matter of one’s personal health, rather than public health, since according to this study below they do not contribute to herd immunity...

Waning of BNT162b2 vaccine protection against SARS-CoV-2 infection in Qatar

Also published in the New England a Journal of Medicine...

https://www.nejm.org/doi/10.1056/NEJMoa2114114

For more information about about
Dr. Jay Bhattacharya and his research...

From the very beginning of the COVID-19 crisis, Dr. Jay Bhattacharya has been on the front lines of analyzing, studying, and even personally fighting the pandemic. In this wide-ranging interview, Dr. Bhattacharya takes us through how it started, how it spread throughout the world, the efficacy of lockdowns, the development and distribution of the vaccines, and the rise of the Delta variant. He delves into what we got right, what we got wrong, and what we got really wrong. Finally, Dr. Bhattacharya looks to the future and how we will learn to live with COVID rather than trying to extinguish it, and how we might be prepared to deal with another inevitable pandemic that we know will arrive at some point.

https://www.hoover.org/research/what-happened-dr-jay-bhattacharya-19-months-covid-0

Your sole source is not very reliable. He has shown to be very very seriously wrong time and time again. Early on he questioned the severity of the pandemic. He was wrong. This is as serious of a disease as the Spanish Flu. There does not appear to be one aspect of this pandemic where he has not been shown to be wrong.

Subduction Zone · Oct 26, 2021

Revoltingest said:
Unlikely.
Your links are a good argument for booster shots.
Not an argument against vaccination.

Don't forget that he found a lone loon that could not support his claims and is regularly refuted. He was used by the anti-mask side in a lawsuit:

In March 2021, Bhattacharya called the COVID-19 lockdowns the "biggest public health mistake we've ever made" and claimed that "The harm to people is catastrophic".[15] In May 2021, Bhattacharya was called as an expert witness for ten applicants who filed a constitutional challenge against Manitoba's COVID-19 public health orders.[16] The judge determined that the public health restrictions did not violate charter rights, noting that Bhattacharya's views were not supported by most scientific and medical experts.[17]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay_Bhattacharya

The medical sciences are so broad that one can find almost any "expert" to support one's claims. The question is how do the claims of that expert hold up to scrutiny. In this case, not very well.

Revoltingest · Oct 26, 2021

Subduction Zone said:
Don't forget that he found a lone loon that could not support his claims and is regularly refuted. He was used by the anti-mask side in a lawsuit:

In March 2021, Bhattacharya called the COVID-19 lockdowns the "biggest public health mistake we've ever made" and claimed that "The harm to people is catastrophic".[15] In May 2021, Bhattacharya was called as an expert witness for ten applicants who filed a constitutional challenge against Manitoba's COVID-19 public health orders.[16] The judge determined that the public health restrictions did not violate charter rights, noting that Bhattacharya's views were not supported by most scientific and medical experts.[17]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay_Bhattacharya

The medical sciences are so broad that one can find almost any "expert" to support one's claims. The question is how do the claims of that expert hold up to scrutiny. In this case, not very well.

I agree that the lockdowns were/are bad.
But even this guy doesn't present an argument against vaccination.
I glean from it that booster shots are worthwhile.

Unveiled Artist · Oct 26, 2021

Revoltingest said:
I'd rather have a healthy cop with all his shots
than a potentially infectious contumacious fool.

Wait. So if you're dying on the ground the first thing you ask the cop is if he got his shots before he calls to take you to the hospital?

Your comment kinda through me off guard while just minin' my own business. There were people who chose not to go to the hospital because of fear of catching COVID... most likely the same once they find out the nurse or doctor wasn't vaccinated.

Revoltingest · Oct 26, 2021

Unveiled Artist said:
Wait. So if you're dying on the ground the first thing you ask the cop....

Your hypothetical scenario & question are unrelated
to the issue of requiring cops to be vaccinated.

Subduction Zone · Oct 26, 2021

Revoltingest said:
I agree that the lockdowns were/are bad.
But even this guy doesn't present an argument against vaccination.
I glean from it that booster shots are worthwhile.

I think that you misunderstood. Jay Bhattacharya was not involved with the linked paper. Jay is a general science denier when it comes to Covid19. I agree that the papers only demonstrate that need for booster shots. But the infected that recovered may need some sort of "booster" too or they could eventually get a serious case. Like the cold virus our immunity drops over time. And new variations arise. That is why one can get the flu one year and then the next.

And as people age all our immune systems get weaker. What makes Covid19 so serious is that the aged are hit much much harder by it than they are by the common cold.

Unveiled Artist · Oct 26, 2021

Revoltingest said:
Your hypothetical scenario & question are unrelated
to the issue of requiring cops to be vaccinated.

I know. The question still stands. Some people actually would want to know.

You'd rather have a healthy cop not a potentially infectious one.

Would this apply in a life or death situation?

For many it does. No hypothetical involved. They genuinely don't want unvaccinated people to be around them.

Revoltingest · Oct 26, 2021

Subduction Zone said:
I think that you misunderstood. Jay Bhattacharya was not involved with the linked paper. Jay is a general science denier when it comes to Covid19. I agree that the papers only demonstrate that need for booster shots. But the infected that recovered may need some sort of "booster" too or they could eventually get a serious case. Like the cold virus our immunity drops over time. And new variations arise. That is why one can get the flu one year and then the next.

And as people age all our immune systems get weaker. What makes Covid19 so serious is that the aged are hit much much harder by it than they are by the common cold.

I agree.

Revoltingest · Oct 26, 2021

Unveiled Artist said:
The question still stands.

A deal....
I won't answer irrelevant questions.
And I won't pose irrelevant questions to you.
This will avoid all that tedious unproductive
discourse that afflicts this issue on RF.
Been there & done that....doing it no more.

InChrist · Oct 26, 2021

Revoltingest said:
Unlikely.
Your links are a good argument for booster shots.
Not an argument against vaccination.

Not really an argument against vaccines, just the idea that one must do so for the good of others. It’s not logical to insist that everyone be vaccinated to protect others when the vaccinated also transmit the virus.

Unveiled Artist · Oct 26, 2021

Revoltingest said:
A deal....
I won't answer irrelevant questions.
And I won't pose irrelevant questions to you.
This will avoid all that tedious unproductive
discourse that afflicts this issue on RF.
Been there & done that....doing it no more.

Wow. I just asked a question.

You have some sort of vendetta on me or something?

Police, vaccinated or not!

Do you favor longer police response times to have all police vaccinated on duty?

Yes.

No

Unsure.

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