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Have the end times arrived?

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
And I really don't think Atheists are your enemy.

This and other OP is not about enemies CG, it is about our frames of references.

This quote says it all.

"The well-being of mankind, its peace and security, are unattainable unless and until its unity is firmly established. This unity can never be achieved so long as the counsels which the Pen of the Most High hath revealed are suffered to pass unheeded."
(“Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh”, p. 286)

SO CG, how will that happen if no conversations are had, we can live the life, but then people will say they have not heard of the choices on offer.

Regards Tony
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
As I recall that in "Pilgrim's Notes" Shoghi said that some cites would be, I think the word was, "vaporized." But, since Pilgrim's Notes aren't official, what do the writings say will happen during the trials and tribulations? And then what will cause them to stop? Again, from what I remember Baha'is telling me was that it would get so bad, as a desperate last resort, the people of the world would turn to the Baha'i Faith. Is that true or was that "unofficial"?
I am not going to go by Pilgrim's Notes. I do not know anything specific that Baha'ullah or Abdu'l-Baha wrote on the trials and tribulations, but here are some general statements.

“The world is in travail, and its agitation waxeth day by day. Its face is turned towards waywardness and unbelief. Such shall be its plight, that to disclose it now would not be meet and seemly. Its perversity will long continue. And when the appointed hour is come, there shall suddenly appear that which shall cause the limbs of mankind to quake. Then, and only then, will the Divine Standard be unfurled, and the Nightingale of Paradise warble its melody.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 118-119


“We have a fixed time for you, O peoples. If ye fail, at the appointed hour, to turn towards God, He, verily, will lay violent hold on you, and will cause grievous afflictions to assail you from every direction. How severe, indeed, is the chastisement with which your Lord will then chastise you!”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 214
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I looked up that verse. And in context it does not help you. Call it what you like it applied to the disciples. In verse nine of that chapter it is clear that this was an event that they would see:

Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 24 - New International Version
I do not believe that Jesus was talking about what would happen during the lifetime of the disciples.
Given the context, I believe it applies to events that would take place in the future.
Jesus was addressing a general audience who would be reading this -- "let the reader understand."

15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’a]">[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.

22 “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.
 
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Trailblazer

Veteran Member
TB, Tony are you listening? Instead of trying to "prove" God exists or that Baha'u'llah is a manifestation of that alleged God, what are the strengths? Do Baha'is have the answers to the world's problems?
That is a better approach and yes, the Baha'i Faith has the answers to the world's problems embedded in the Writings of Baha'u'llah, Abdu'l-Baha and Shoghi Effendi.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I am not going to go by Pilgrim's Notes. I do not know anything specific that Baha'ullah or Abdu'l-Baha wrote on the trials and tribulations, but here are some general statements.

“The world is in travail, and its agitation waxeth day by day. Its face is turned towards waywardness and unbelief. Such shall be its plight, that to disclose it now would not be meet and seemly. Its perversity will long continue. And when the appointed hour is come, there shall suddenly appear that which shall cause the limbs of mankind to quake. Then, and only then, will the Divine Standard be unfurled, and the Nightingale of Paradise warble its melody.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 118-119


“We have a fixed time for you, O peoples. If ye fail, at the appointed hour, to turn towards God, He, verily, will lay violent hold on you, and will cause grievous afflictions to assail you from every direction. How severe, indeed, is the chastisement with which your Lord will then chastise you!”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 214

@CG Didymus

The pilgrim notes are reflected and given in official writings, just not going into the same level of graphic details. I will post a link to those, but this quote offers a lot that will happen and Shoghi Effendi has written a lot about this.

This is from America Passing Through Crisis.

"..... Parallel with this, and pervading all departments of life—an evil which the nation, and indeed all those within the capitalist system, though to a lesser degree, share with that state and its satellites regarded 125 as the sworn enemies of that system—is the crass materialism, which lays excessive and ever-increasing emphasis on material well-being, forgetful of those things of the spirit on which alone a sure and stable foundation can be laid for human society. It is this same cancerous materialism, born originally in Europe, carried to excess in the North American continent, contaminating the Asiatic peoples and nations, spreading its ominous tentacles to the borders of Africa, and now invading its very heart, which Bahá’u’lláh in unequivocal and emphatic language denounced in His Writings, comparing it to a devouring flame and regarding it as the chief factor in precipitating the dire ordeals and world-shaking crises that must necessarily involve the burning of cities and the spread of terror and consternation in the hearts of men. Indeed a foretaste of the devastation which this consuming fire will wreak upon the world, and with which it will lay waste the cities of the nations participating in this tragic world-engulfing contest, has been afforded by the last World War, marking the second stage in the global havoc which humanity, forgetful of its God and heedless of the clear warnings uttered by His appointed Messenger for this day, must, alas, inevitably experience. It is this same all-pervasive, pernicious materialism against which the voice of the Center of Bahá’u’lláh’s Covenant was raised, with pathetic persistence, from platform and pulpit, in His addresses to the heedless multitudes, which, on the morrow of His fateful visit to both Europe and America, found themselves suddenly swept into the vortex of a tempest which in its range and severity was unsurpassed in the world’s history..... "


So 2 world wars were predicted, Abdu'lbaha went to America and warned of the First World War and Shoghi Effendi after the 2nd world war has said a conflict the likes of what we have not yet witnessed is on the way after a series of convulsions that will result in the burning of cities.

You and all others can take the warnings as they see they must, or not act on them at all CG.

Regards Tony
 
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CG Didymus

Veteran Member
Guess that is up to each person to decide for their own self CG, as it is also each person's choice to decide to embrace and give their life to living that Message.

Baha'u'llah and Abdu'lbaha never forced anyone to change their mind or do what they did not want to do, all God does is give us a Message by via a chosen Messenger, who by their person and life try to encourage us and then leaves it up to us to sort it all out.

"As you have faith, so shall your power and blessings be, this is the balance, this is the balance, this is the balance." Abdu'lbaha

Regards Tony
But, a good charismatic speaker can "convince" people to believe lots of stuff. But, do they then put it into practice? I think lots of people don't commit all that much to some religions. Especially the big, "organized" religions. People can easily set in a building and call that good and feel as if they are "practicing" their religions. Baha'is aren't that big, but still are organized. A person can go to a Baha'i Feast and think that is good enough.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
But, a good charismatic speaker can "convince" people to believe lots of stuff. But, do they then put it into practice? I think lots of people don't commit all that much to some religions. Especially the big, "organized" religions. People can easily set in a building and call that good and feel as if they are "practicing" their religions. Baha'is aren't that big, but still are organized. A person can go to a Baha'i Feast and think that is good enough.

Again CG, God gives us our choices. We face what we face to aid us to become better people, to become a loving soul.

Regards Tony
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
That is a better approach and yes, the Baha'i Faith has the answers to the world's problems embedded in the Writings of Baha'u'llah, Abdu'l-Baha and Shoghi Effendi.
I'll re-ask this now, but I asked something similar already in another post to you. What are the things predicted that the world will go through because they rejected the message of Baha'u'llah? The two world wars are over. Communism isn't the big threat anymore. Now it is radical Islam and it looks like in the U.S. right-wing, gun-loving radicals. These people are not for disarmament. They're not into some new religion that is telling people to unite and put aside their prejudices and form some world government.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I'll re-ask this now, but I asked something similar already in another post to you. What are the things predicted that the world will go through because they rejected the message of Baha'u'llah?
You are seeing them happening all over the world right now. Tony noted some more things we will see in his post above.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I do not believe that Jesus was talking about what would happen during the lifetime of the disciples.
Given the context, I believe it applies to events that would take place in the future.
Jesus was addressing a general audience who would be reading this -- "let the reader understand."

15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’a]">[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.

22 “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.
Then you are not reading it in context. That is why I linked the whole chapter for you. And also, we really do not know if Jesus said that. That is only what is written that he said. But in context your interpretation fails.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
Again CG, God gives us our choices. We face what we face to aid us to become better people, to become a loving soul.

Regards Tony
What I'm talking about is how religion "talk" a good story. And that is done by those charismatic leaders, but the followers aren't all the committed to do all the things the religion expects of them. That is the downside of even the Baha'i Faith. Too small a percentage are very active. People have jobs and families, who has time to go out and teach the word to a lost world? And on becoming better people? I think lots of religious people have the problem of being great people when they are at their religious meetings, but in every day life? Not enough of them seem to be practicing what their religion teaches.

Are Baha'is we meet going to be perfect? No, but we don't expect them to be rude, hypocritical jerks either. We expect them to be kind, loving, respectful people that have put aside their prejudices. And since they aren't perfect, we, and this is just a general "we", probably judge them and their religion.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I see that differently. The Message of God is the standard and stands upon its own merit.

It does not need you or me to embrace it, it is the standard if we accept it or not and the world then unfolds according to our actions.

Like the teaching of Jesus that says to turn the other cheek, which Baha'u'llah also offerd in that he said it is better to be killed than kill.

Thus the standard is manifested in an action, where we choose to embrace the peace of no retaliation or we retaliate, it is up to us to put that into practice. If we do, God's Message will unfold in a way that God willed for us, we did not insert out own will.

So when Baha'u'llah offered there is One God and that we are One people, that is the standard, we will live by it, or we will not and the world is shaped by our acceptance or rejection of that standard.

We can look back and see that easier, we can see where Christians have not practiced what Jesus taught and shaped history as a result of those actions.

What country has not faced the onslaught of Christain based evangelizing that did not fully practice the Love Jesus offered, it was more of a man made genocide, a domination, not an invitation.

Regards Tony
A complete non sequitur does help you. The problem is that your beliefs do appear to be irrational. A person with a rational belief would have properly supported them. All major religions have failings because people are not perfect. Baha'i is not as of yet a major religion so its failings are not obvious. Pointing out that other religions have had failings does not support your religion.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
This unity can never be achieved so long as the counsels which the Pen of the Most High hath revealed are suffered to pass unheeded."
Okay, so we need this "unity" and there are things Baha'u'llah said must be done to achieve that unity. Let's look at some of those. Already anything that says to disarm isn't going to work with the gun-loving and "freedom" loving Americans. So how do you get liberal peace loving people to unite with them? The U.S. is dangerously divided.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
What I'm talking about is how religion "talk" a good story. And that is done by those charismatic leaders, but the followers aren't all the committed to do all the things the religion expects of them. That is the downside of even the Baha'i Faith. Too small a percentage are very active. People have jobs and families, who has time to go out and teach the word to a lost world? And on becoming better people? I think lots of religious people have the problem of being great people when they are at their religious meetings, but in every day life? Not enough of them seem to be practicing what their religion teaches.

Are Baha'is we meet going to be perfect? No, but we don't expect them to be rude, hypocritical jerks either. We expect them to be kind, loving, respectful people that have put aside their prejudices. And since they aren't perfect, we, and this is just a general "we", probably judge them and their religion.

So what are you doing? That is all. You have to worry about.

Regards Tony
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
A complete non sequitur does help you. The problem is that your beliefs do appear to be irrational. A person with a rational belief would have properly supported them. All major religions have failings because people are not perfect. Baha'i is not as of yet a major religion so its failings are not obvious. Pointing out that other religions have had failings does not support your religion.

We can look back as to where the Baha'i have failed to implement the Message of Baha'u'llah, but that would not mean a lot to many people, as they are not even aware of what we should be doing.

I do not understanding why people can not admit to the mistakes we have made, especially in religion.

Regards Tony
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Okay, so we need this "unity" and there are things Baha'u'llah said must be done to achieve that unity. Let's look at some of those. Already anything that says to disarm isn't going to work with the gun-loving and "freedom" loving Americans. So how do you get liberal peace loving people to unite with them? The U.S. is dangerously divided.

We can not CG, it must be an individual choice.

I think Shoghi Effendi has summed up in great detail as to what it is going to take.

For America the best advice in the early 1900's was for urgent action on race relations and a balance in materialism.

Regards Tony
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
We can look back as to where the Baha'i have failed to implement the Message of Baha'u'llah, but that would not mean a lot to many people, as they are not even aware of what we should be doing.

I do not understanding why people can not admit to the mistakes we have made, especially in religion.

Regards Tony
Biased tests are not proper tests.
 

Clara Tea

Well-Known Member
Have the end times arrived? What do you think the prophet Daniel meant by the following? What does it mean, run to and fro, and how will knowledge be increased?

“But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.”

Below is the context of the verse:

Daniel Chapter 12 King James Version

4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?

9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.


The following excerpts are from an article entitled The Abrahamic Religions and the End Times.

If I told you that the end times have arrived, when all people would be gathered together, and described all religions as rivers flowing to one ocean, you might ask “Where does scripture tell us that?”

To discover that theme as it runs through the scriptures of the world’s great religions, let’s start with the Judeo-Christian tradition, where the gathering of all people together in the end times is made rather plain. The prophet Isaiah wrote:

In the last days the mountain of the Lord’s temple will be established as the highest of the mountains; it will be exalted above the hills and all nations will stream to it. – Isaiah 2:2.

Here the metaphor is a mountain, not a river, but the message is the same: all nations will flow unto the mountain or the temple, just as rivers flow to the sea.

This mountain of the Lord’s House unto which all nations will come is a frequent symbol in the Bible. Here it is later in Isaiah, where what happens on this mountain is explained:

On this mountain the Lord Almighty will prepare a feast of rich food for all peoples, a banquet of aged wine – the best of meats and the finest of wines. On this mountain he will destroy the shroud that enfolds all peoples, the sheet that covers all nations; he will swallow up death forever. The Sovereign Lord will wipe away the tears from all faces; he will remove his people’s disgrace from all the earth. The Lord has spoken. – Isaiah 25:6-8.

Did you catch the part that the feast is for all people and that God is going to remove the shroud – the cover – that separates us?

Consider what happens when fish from different rivers enter the sea. They are suddenly brought together, clearly visible to each other, with no separation between them. We can each see that happening now, at varying rates, all around the world, at a much faster rate than ever before.

Consider also this verse from the prophet Jeremiah:

O Lord, my strength and my fortress, my refuge in time of distress, to you the nations will come from the ends of the earth and say, “Our fathers possessed nothing but false gods, worthless idols that did them no good.” – Jeremiah 16:19.

This verse emphasizes that people will worship one idol-less God, but did you catch the part where the nations of the earth will be brought together?

The theme recurs again in this famous passage from the prophet Micah, echoing Isaiah:

In the last days the mountain of the Lord’s temple will be established as the highest of the mountains; it will be exalted above the hills, and peoples will stream to it. Many nations will come and say, “Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the temple of the God of Jacob. He will teach us his ways, so that we may walk in his paths.” The law will go out from Zion, the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. He will judge between many peoples and will settle disputes for strong nations far and wide. They will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not take up sword against nation, nor will they train for war anymore. Everyone will sit under their own vine and under their own fig tree, and no one will make them afraid, for the Lord Almighty has spoken. All the nations may walk in the name of their gods, but we will walk in the name of the Lord our God for ever and ever. – Micah 4:1-5.

Here the divine promise of what will happen when we come together is revealed: justice under a common law will be established, peace among nations will be secured, and individual life and property protected.

The Qur’an, too, foretells collective gathering and judgment, announcing:

… one Day We shall summon all human beings [and judge them] according to the conscious disposition which governed their deeds [in life]: whereupon they whose record shall be placed in their right hand – it is they who will read their record [with happiness]. Yet none shall be wronged by as much as a hair’s breadth. – 17:71.

Some interpret this as the judgment that occurs at death when Christian law will judge Christians, Jewish law will judge Jews, and Muslim law will judge Muslims, etc. Up until our present age, this seems to be the right interpretation, but now a new interpretation is possible: It could mean that when we are brought together in this world, as is now happening, we will each be judged by one moral law that separates the wheat from the chaff of each religion. Indications in other places support this new interpretation.

The Qur’an speaks of a Day when the old ways will be put away, and when people will be brought together under a common law. It reads:

[God’s promise will be fulfilled] on the Day when the earth shall be changed into another earth, as shall be the heavens and when [all men] shall appear before God, the One who holds absolute sway over all that exists. – 14:48.

Here, we are brought together by God in life, not death, and charged with changing the old Earth into a new Earth, using the guidance of a new heaven – a new religion.

This earth-and-heaven-changing Day is referred to in many different ways in the Qur’an – as the Day of Resurrection, when the whole Earth will be in God’s grasp and God will judge between the religions (Qur’an 39:67-69; 22:17). It refers to the Day of Folding (Takwir) when the heavens and Earth are folded up and a new one is laid out. It includes the Day that arises out of darkness when the sun is folded up and the stars are taken away and the people are lost (Sura 81). In this Day things that were thought to be stable, like mountains, prove not to be, and things that need tending have to be abandoned. This Surah goes on to say that in this Day the rivers (or waters) that separate us and also carry our ships will drain chaotically into a common unordered sea, and that all people and beasts (which probably means men and women who act like beasts) will be brought together and asked of their doings.

When will these things happen? The verses say (81:10): when the books are spread abroad or laid open, or to use Daniel’s phrase, “when knowledge shall be increased.” That is happening now. In our media-connected world all is accessible and visible. Not only is knowledge a click away, so too are deeds. The books are open. Misdeeds and evil, as well as deeds of service and generosity, corruption and greed, as wells as right intent and action, are all clearly manifest. The Qur’an, however, says even more, completing the prophecy given to Daniel, saying that the Promised Day will come (51:6-7) when the heavens are full of numerous (some translations say “starry”) paths.

Look up into the sky and tell me: Do you not see the starry paths of airplanes and spaceships as many now run to and fro as Daniel foretold?

Yes, of course we are now in the end times.

Revelation (a chapter of the bible) tells us the events of the end times.

Revelation said that God would vent his wrath on us (example: Revelation 15....seven plagues, including COVID, I presume) if we attacked Iraq (which we did).

Revelation calls George W. Bush the beast, and his father is the dragon (both the beast and the dragon have souls that are Satanic demons that escaped from the bottomless pit of hell (according to Revelation).

So, by attacking Iraq, George W. Bush started the end times.

My friend has a blog about Global Warming, and says that it is too little too late to conserve. Making more solar cells, using more LEDs will help, some, but it won't fix the problem. George W. Bush sent his lawyers to edit the United States report on the environment (which had originally asserted that Global Warming is accelerated by mankind's activities, and it is making hurricanes (like Katrina) worse, and it is about to cause mass extinctions (possibly humans will be extinct). The only hope for the environment is modification of the upper stratosphere in much the same way that super-volcanoes cooled the world. Theists say that Global Warming is a natural process, and the world would warm even without mankind's influence. Yet, they greatly underestimate the effects of rapid Global Warming, and don't realize the extreme danger that the world is in.

My friend has thousands of Nasa scientists, and experts in weather and space science following her writings online.

My friend talked with religious leaders (reverends, etc). They said that they knew that the world was going to end, and they were fine with that. They said that it was all part of God's plan to bring (some) people to heaven and make the earth devoid of life. In fact, many wanted to accelerate the process.

That reminded me of the movie Dr. Strangelove. Strangelove wanted to nuke the world, and he didn't mind dying in the process (he was insane). The world seems insane to me now as people ignore science and destroy the only world that we have. Lets remember that God made this world, and is very proud of it.
 
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