The Problem of Enlightenment and the Logical Observer

everyone goes through reality learning from it, sieving from the objective and subjective, but not everyone will come to enlightenment in the same way, or even at the same point in time, let alone in space.


so how can this be understood if it isn't base on a physical maturity? wouldn't it have to be based on some psychological maturity, and even then this may not even be realized by all because it seems to be more of a subjective realization than an observable and measurable state?


could you look at someone and say, "Hey they are enlightened." ? how could it ever be that someone is enlightened? self-realized? what are the parameters of knowing the state of happiness in someone?


how can someone know when someone else loves?

Fool said:

what are the parameters of knowing the state of happiness in someone?

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If beings were authentically enlightened to what were going on and being done to them in this world, and truly loved and cared for their fellow common beings...I highly doubt that they would be happy about this.

It is far from cupcakes and rainbows, or all lovey dovey.

Nevertheless, another state would be being “lightened” up inside. Laughing and seeing the joke more. Not as easily offended. Not living in fear. More bias removed and more awareness, cognitive capacities expanded and heightened. Feeling lighter inside, burdens/weights removed. Not wishing or desiring any harmful suffering onto anyone else- which inspires disgust for this world seeing all of the subtle reasoning as to why this happens and how.

Alienistic said:

If beings were authentically enlightened to what were going on and being done to them in this world, and truly loved and cared for their fellow common beings...I highly doubt that they would be happy about this.

It is far from cupcakes and rainbows.

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heaven for the service to all as self might be hell for the service to self type as a poster on here pointed out. again goes to state of mind. the problem for the service to self type can't win because they are constantly at odds with the all and energy cannot be created/destroyed but only transformed/transferred. in their journey the service to self against the all will collapse and have to start over again, repeat the cycles again and again. insanity(chaos/hell) is repeating the same thing over and over without end and expecting a different result. until self tries something different, until self changes, nothing really appears to change to self.

We need a definition of enlightenment don’t we? And presumably there are degrees of enlightenment.

In (some) Buddhist lore, there is one truly enlightened being per generation; in Christianity there has only ever truly been one - either way, the odds aren’t good on meeting such a person face to face.

Whilst life changing spiritual experiences may, I believe, befall any of us, the most we can aspire to in this regard is to lift a corner of the veil, probably for a moment only.

RestlessSoul said:

We need a definition of enlightenment don’t we? And presumably there are degrees of enlightenment.

In (some) Buddhist lore, there is one truly enlightened being per generation; in Christianity there has only ever truly been one - either way, the odds aren’t good on meeting such a person face to face.

Whilst life changing spiritual experiences may, I believe, befall any of us, the most we can aspire to in this regard is to lift a corner of the veil, probably for a moment only.

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basically having psychological(spiritual) knowledge about how the mind works?

or do you have some other and better definition? anyone else?