• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

I live in a smart city, can I be concerned yet?

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
The thing is NO ONE wants to follow you around all day because NO ONE cares what you do. Honestly, NO ONE cares.

Be honest; what really irks you is the idea of being held responsible and accountable to the rest of humanity.
No. Because if that was actually the case , people wouldnt go as extensively as they do now with massive integrated surveillance and control systems.

It would stay circa 60s and 70s where surveillance didn't exceed the norms of that era where most of it was largely self contained and non integrated in the hands of individual people protecting their own particular interests.
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
While public surveillance certainly goes overboard at times, I find comparisons of such in developed, relatively free countries to something like 1984 or thoroughly dictatorial countries to more often than not be hyperbolic.

I can say this (without going into too much detail): many people who have lived in an authoritarian, heavily corrupt third-world country know that abuse, tyranny, and corruption can easily take hold of a country without any sort of technologically advanced public surveillance. All you need is poor education and corrupt state institutions.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
My city is the first smart city in the US. Without naming my location specifically, what this means is that the city is under complete audio and video surveillance. This is no conspiracy, they added the microphones and cameras to all the light poles a couple years ago, and the city government website has a handy webpage on our smart city status, proudly claiming that we are the first “full smart city”. Obviously, someone is watching and listening, they wouldn’t install millions of dollars of equipment and simply not use it.
Point is, all of my lightpoles now listen to me. Now, I’m naturally a paranoid guy, but this whole thing really freaks me out. Am I right to be concerned/weirded out? Like, nobody in my city cares that we are under literal 24/7 surveillance like China. Literally. Nobody cares.
When will this stop? When people start caring.
Vent over, thanks.

God is watching. Well big government.
Don't do anything God, er I mean the government wouldn't want you to do.
Though one might want to be concerned about which God, umm.. government is watching.
 

Bodie

Member
I have heard that ToR is very good at anonymising your browsing history online.

In the U.S. at least the NSA logs the Ip Addresses of anyone who logs into or visits the TOR website or searches for privacy services, the reasoning is is that why would anyone want to be anonymous if they weren't doing anything wrong, your perceived rights do not matter.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
No. Because if that was actually the case , people wouldnt go as extensively as they do now with massive integrated surveillance and control systems.

It would stay circa 60s and 70s where surveillance didn't exceed the norms of that era where most of it was largely self contained and non integrated in the hands of individual people protecting their own particular interests.
In every time and place on Earth, humans beings have wanted to be in control of their circumstances ... as much as possible. Not all of us all the time, but enough of us at any given time. And that is what is feeding this increase in surveillance. But all this increased surveillance fuels different results at the same time in that it does provide us with a lot more security even though it also provides those who wish to exploit or abuse us for their own gain with specific information that would help enable their agenda. And then between those two more opposing results, there is a whole lot of "meh". For most of us, most of the time, all that surveillance will result in, "meh". It will have no appreciable impact. And for those that it will impact at some point in time, the question becomes; will that impact be more positive, or more negative?
 
Last edited:

Kooky

Freedom from Sanity
More and more moves are being taken now that emulates Communist China's surveillance and control methodology every passing day.
For example, the UK managed to "emulate" China's surveillance and control methodology years before China did, in a staggering feat of reverse causality, where evil Communists influenced entire nations backwards into time!
 

Kooky

Freedom from Sanity
In the U.S. at least the NSA logs the Ip Addresses of anyone who logs into or visits the TOR website or searches for privacy services, the reasoning is is that why would anyone want to be anonymous if they weren't doing anything wrong, your perceived rights do not matter.
All signed into law by the Bush government, and then later expanded under Trump.
 

an anarchist

Your local anarchist.
If it is the state who creates markets, then that doesn't spell a lot of hope for anarcho-capitalism does it.
The state has a monopoly on certain markets as it stands. It doesn’t mean that markets cannot exist without a state. Not sure why your connecting ancap philosophy to this topic.
 

Kooky

Freedom from Sanity
The state has a monopoly on certain markets as it stands. It doesn’t mean that markets cannot exist without a state. Not sure why your connecting ancap philosophy to this topic.
I'm not the one blaming "socialism" and "China" for what's a logical consequence of the centuries-long marriage of capitalism and authoritarianism.
 

an anarchist

Your local anarchist.
Of course there are rare instances where they can invade your privacy, this is inevitable, but hey, who gives a damn if you are doing nothing illegal?

Personally, I don't care if they set up cameras and microphones all around me. I have nothing to hide.

Imo, this line of thinking is dangerous. Because enough people think it, so it allows states to set up surveillance states. Doesn’t every state have a track record of being corrupt and invasive? I think so. So why trust them, they have proven that they are untrustworthy and corrupt.
 

an anarchist

Your local anarchist.
I'm not the one blaming "socialism" and "China" for what's a logical consequence of the centuries-long marriage of capitalism and authoritarianism.
I think you and I disagree on whether or not capitalism can exist without being corrupted. Anarcho-capitalism is capitalism minus the authoritarianism.
And the resulting smart city technology and the such, they are funded through socialist means, right? Through collective rule and ordinance, and government funded. Idk I just don’t think one can blame capitalism itself for a surveillance state, that’s just me.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Imo, this line of thinking is dangerous. Because enough people think it, so it allows states to set up surveillance states. Doesn’t every state have a track record of being corrupt and invasive? I think so. So why trust them, they have proven that they are untrustworthy and corrupt.

As i said britain was the most surveiled country in the world, no one bothers except criminals. Why not trust them to help reduce crime?

However American have the attitude they can do what they like without consequence due to some piece of paper signed a couple of hundred years ago.

If you don't like it then wear a mask
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
The Security Service has existed since 1909, and its powers were not regulated until the 1980s (and only brought in compliance with basic human rights in the 1990s).
I take you were referring to mass surveillance of populations on a large integrated and networked scale.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
As i said britain was the most surveiled country in the world, no one bothers except criminals. Why not trust them to help reduce crime?

However American have the attitude they can do what they like without consequence due to some piece of paper signed a couple of hundred years ago.

If you don't like it then wear a mask
Surveillance to that extent means you essentially live in a visual prison that's designed to control people. Not protect them.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Surveillance to that extent means you essentially live in a visual prison that's designed to control people. Not protect them.

No it doesn't, dont forgot i have lived in the most surveiled country in the world, it was no impediment to anything i did, or to anyone else i knew there

However if you are paranoid about what yoy do then i can imagine it would seem frightening.
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
Imo, this line of thinking is dangerous. Because enough people think it, so it allows states to set up surveillance states. Doesn’t every state have a track record of being corrupt and invasive? I think so. So why trust them, they have proven that they are untrustworthy and corrupt.

I never said I trust them. I just said I don't care if they look at me or listen to me.

To me, it similar to having a beat cop walking the street watching and listening. At least with surveillance, what is done or said doesn't rely on the perspective on one individual, who could potentially be every bit as untrustworthy and corrupt.
 

Kooky

Freedom from Sanity
I think you and I disagree on whether or not capitalism can exist without being corrupted. Anarcho-capitalism is capitalism minus the authoritarianism.
No, we disagree on whether capitalism can be "corrupted" in the first place. ;)

And the resulting smart city technology and the such, they are funded through socialist means, right? Through collective rule and ordinance, and government funded. Idk I just don’t think one can blame capitalism itself for a surveillance state, that’s just me.
The government is part and parcel of our capitalist society. You might as well blame coal for polluting the planet, or cars for making streets dangerous to kids. Most surveillance technology has come supplied by capitalists at the behest of capitalists - any shop that requires surveillance is directly responsible for the encroachment of it.

So why trust them, they have proven that they are untrustworthy and corrupt.
Because our capitalist masters say so.
 

Bodie

Member
All signed into law by the Bush government, and then later expanded under Trump.

You forgot Obama who continued the enforcement of domestic surveillance, wonder why that is? It's irrelevant though, domestic spying goes well beyond the petty red and blue bickering.
 
Top