Watchtower: Jesus is not "a god"!

JerryMyers · Oct 16, 2021

Dogknox20 said:
JerryMyers Christians have always taught "Jesus is God"!

Christians are NOT Gods!! ONLY God Almighty can say that ‘apart from Him, Jesus is also God’ and only Jesus can confirm that and preach to others that he’s God too BUT, you are NOT going to find a single verse in your whole Bible where God said Jesus is God nor are you going to find a single verse in your whole Bible where Jesus himself said and preached that he’s God too!!

What you will find in your own scripture is God Himself saying He is the ONLY God AND SAVIOR, besides Him, there’s no other God - “I am the LORD, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God” – Isaiah 45:5 and “I, even I, am the LORD, and APART FROM ME there is NO SAVIOR.” - Isaiah 43:11

…… and Jesus himself CLEARLY told you who he is and who the TRUE God is - “Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the ONLY true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent” - John 17:3.

CLEARLY, it’s YOU who rejected the scriptures or twist God’s Words until God says what you want God to have said! Twist it all you want but ONLY lost souls like you will deny God’s Words in Isaiah 45:5 and Isaiah 43:11, and dismissed Jesus’ words in John 17:3.

So, what have you got to support your claim that Jesus is God??? NOTHING!! You got NOTHING, Dogknox20! All you have is a ‘talent’ in churning out NONSENSE time and time again!

Dogknox20 said:
1Timothy 3:15 & Ephesians 5:25-27 tell you THE CHURCH has the AUTHORITY to teach "Jesus is God"!
JerryMyers The CHURCH is Holy and Blameless.. The CHURCH is the Love of Jesus! Jesus died for (The CHURCH)!
JerryMyers It means The CHURCH is CHRISTIAN!

So which part of 1Timothy 3:15 and Ephesians 5:25-27 said or implied the church has the authority to teach ‘Jesus is God’?? Your ‘talent’ in churning out NONSENSE time and time again is quite GLARING!!!

Dogknox20 said:
"

Dogknox20 said:
Jesus is ALWAYS WITH his Church to the very end of time"! This means: Jesus cannot be with your man made church coming alone 1900 years after Jesus and the TRUTH!
JerryMyers ALWAYS WITH.. Means; your church is NOT with God! Your Church teaches differently then Jesus' CHRISTIAN Church!
Matthew 28:20 Teach them to obey everything that I have told you to do. You can be sure that I will be with you always. I will continue with you until the end of time.”

Saying “I will always be with you, to the very end of the age” doesn’t make Jesus God. Jesus was talking to his disciples, NOT to you, and in that passage, Jesus was telling his disciples to preach to others what he had preached to them and he will always be with them as they go about preaching to others what Jesus had preached to them. It’s no different from a father who tells his children to always do good to others and be honest in whatever they do and he ‘will always be them’. In other words, as long as the children do good to others and are honest in whatever they do, their father will always be with them just what their father has told them. Likewise, the Holy Spirit (of God) will surely always be with those who always do and submit to the Will of God BUT the Holy Spirit will not be with you if you stop submitting and doing the Will of God.

Dogknox20 said:
JerryMyers I keep bringing up the cross as a symbol of Christianity because it is! The football player make the sign before he kicks the ball all instantly know "He is a Christian"! The person with the parachute makes the cross sign before he jumps out a perfectly good airplane; The person is a Christian! EVERY Christian Church has a cross on the building if not outside they have one inside! The CROSS is a Christian symbol!

You keep missing the point!!! The cross as a Christian symbol IS A MAN-MADE INNOVATION AFTER JESUS HAD LONG DEPARTED!!! Jesus, the man you claimed you follow, NEVER USES THE CROSS AS A SYMBOL FOR ANYTHING!!!

Dogknox20 said:
THINK: It was on the CROSS that Jesus redeemed us! It was by the CROSS that Satan was defeated! The CROSS is a perfect symbol of Perfect LOVE! Jesus gave himself up for us, ON THE CROSS out of perfect love for us!
John 10:18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.”

THINK: If you can truly believe God wants Jesus to literally die for your sins, then, Judas in betraying Jesus, the Jews who plotted to kill Jesus in the most humiliating way and those who whipped and spat on Jesus are actually doing the noblest thing as they are doing the Will of God!! I supposed you must also believe Judas, the Jews who plotted to kill Jesus are now all in heaven playing harps and sitting beside God!!! What NONSENSE is that????!

Dogknox20 said:
Satan rejects Jesus Satan rejects the CROSS; Satan was defeated by The Cross; Satan is Anti-Christ!
I bring up the CROSS because; All who reject the CROSS are NOT Christian!

Satan was NOT defeated by the cross (that's only in Hollywood!). CLEARLY, Satan is still around AND YOU ARE THE LIVING PROOF!! Satan is screwing up your mind by making you believe Jesus is God and by doing so, Satan has SUCCESSFULLY diverted your focus of worship from the One and Only God Almighty whom Jesus himself worshipped and prayed to, to the son of man, Jesus, who God created with His Command Word!! So, you can keep on rambling NONSENSE and do the bidding of Satan – and on that day, Jesus will tell you, “I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!”

Dogknox20 · Oct 16, 2021

YoursTrue said:
I would just like to mention that the angel told Mary she was to call her son Jesus.
Luke 1:31 - "You will conceive and give birth to a son, and you are to call him Jesus."

.
YoursTrue Good point... Some scripture interpretations use the word Yeshuua.
NOG
You will become pregnant, give birth to a son, and name him Yeshua.
..............................................
Wikipedia
Yeshua in Hebrew is a verbal derivative from "to rescue", "to deliver". ... Among the Jews of the Second Temple period, the Biblical Aramaic/Hebrew name ...etc
.........................................
I guess you could say "God to the rescue!"
Immanuel” (which means “God with us”)
......
Does Yeshua mean Jesus?
"); display: inline-block; height: 24px; width: 24px; margin-top: -1px; transform: rotateZ(-180deg);">

Due to the numerous translations, the Bible has undergone, "Jesus" is the modern term for the Son of God. His original Hebrew name is Yeshua, which is short for yehōshu'a. ... When Yeshua is translated into Greek, which the New Testament is derived from, it becomes Iēsous, which in English spelling is "Jesus." Dec. 24, 2018

Dogknox20 · Oct 16, 2021

JerryMyers said:
Christians are NOT Gods!! ONLY God Almighty can say that ‘apart from Him, Jesus is also God’ and only Jesus can confirm that and preach to others that he’s God too BUT, you are NOT going to find a single verse in your whole Bible where God said Jesus is God nor are you going to find a single verse in your whole Bible where Jesus himself said and preached that he’s God too!!

What you will find in your own scripture is God Himself saying He is the ONLY God AND SAVIOR, besides Him, there’s no other God - “I am the LORD, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God” – Isaiah 45:5 and “I, even I, am the LORD, and APART FROM ME there is NO SAVIOR.” - Isaiah 43:11

…… and Jesus himself CLEARLY told you who he is and who the TRUE God is - “Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the ONLY true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent” - John 17:3.

CLEARLY, it’s YOU who rejected the scriptures or twist God’s Words until God says what you want God to have said! Twist it all you want but ONLY lost souls like you will deny God’s Words in Isaiah 45:5 and Isaiah 43:11, and dismissed Jesus’ words in John 17:3.

So, what have you got to support your claim that Jesus is God??? NOTHING!! You got NOTHING, Dogknox20! All you have is a ‘talent’ in churning out NONSENSE time and time again!

So which part of 1Timothy 3:15 and Ephesians 5:25-27 said or implied the church has the authority to teach ‘Jesus is God’?? Your ‘talent’ in churning out NONSENSE time and time again is quite GLARING!!!

Saying “I will always be with you, to the very end of the age” doesn’t make Jesus God. Jesus was talking to his disciples, NOT to you, and in that passage, Jesus was telling his disciples to preach to others what he had preached to them and he will always be with them as they go about preaching to others what Jesus had preached to them. It’s no different from a father who tells his children to always do good to others and be honest in whatever they do and he ‘will always be them’. In other words, as long as the children do good to others and are honest in whatever they do, their father will always be with them just what their father has told them. Likewise, the Holy Spirit (of God) will surely always be with those who always do and submit to the Will of God BUT the Holy Spirit will not be with you if you stop submitting and doing the Will of God.

You keep missing the point!!! The cross as a Christian symbol IS A MAN-MADE INNOVATION AFTER JESUS HAD LONG DEPARTED!!! Jesus, the man you claimed you follow, NEVER USES THE CROSS AS A SYMBOL FOR ANYTHING!!!

THINK: If you can truly believe God wants Jesus to literally die for your sins, then, Judas in betraying Jesus, the Jews who plotted to kill Jesus in the most humiliating way and those who whipped and spat on Jesus are actually doing the noblest thing as they are doing the Will of God!! I supposed you must also believe Judas, the Jews who plotted to kill Jesus are now all in heaven playing harps and sitting beside God!!! What NONSENSE is that????!

Satan was NOT defeated by the cross (that's only in Hollywood!). CLEARLY, Satan is still around AND YOU ARE THE LIVING PROOF!! Satan is screwing up your mind by making you believe Jesus is God and by doing so, Satan has SUCCESSFULLY diverted your focus of worship from the One and Only God Almighty whom Jesus himself worshipped and prayed to, to the son of man, Jesus, who God created with His Command Word!! So, you can keep on rambling NONSENSE and do the bidding of Satan – and on that day, Jesus will tell you, “I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!”

JerryMyers Jesus established a CHURCH before he left us... 1Timothy 3:15 and Ephesians 5:25-27 tell us about his Holy Church!
The Church Jesus established is the foundation of truth!
The Church is guided into ALL Truth by the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit is ALWAYS with the CHURCH>>> FOREVER<!
JerryMyers this means your CHURCH is not the truth, it means your church is NOT guided by the Holy Spirit.
It means your church cannot be teaching truth it teaches opposite to Jesus' CHRISTIAN Church! You are right in your belief or Christians are, both are complete opposites'!

18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Jesus gave his AUTHORITY to his CHURCH to TEACH ALL NATIONS! This AUTHORITY of Jesus cannot be in your man made come alone 1900 years after Jesus' church!... Jesus is ALWAYS WITH HIS HOLY BODY.. The CHURCH he established 2000 years ago!..... I am with you always, to the very end of the age....
JerryMyers I said it before but it is worth repeating.... To reject Christian teaching you MUST reject the words of God as lies!
QUESTION.. "Is Jesus always with his Church to the end of the age"?
QUESTION.. "Is the CHURCH Jesus established 2000 years ago the Pillar and the foundation of truth!?"
QUESTION.. "Is the Holy Spirit guiding the Church into all truth FOREVER"!?
You are forced to reject any of these questions for the teaching of your man made church otherwise you would be Christian!

YoursTrue · Oct 16, 2021

Dogknox20 said:
.
YoursTrue Good point... Some scripture interpretations use the word Yeshuua.
NOG
You will become pregnant, give birth to a son, and name him Yeshua.
..............................................
Wikipedia
Yeshua in Hebrew is a verbal derivative from "to rescue", "to deliver". ... Among the Jews of the Second Temple period, the Biblical Aramaic/Hebrew name ...etc
.........................................
I guess you could say "God to the rescue!"
Immanuel” (which means “God with us”)
......
Does Yeshua mean Jesus?
"); display: inline-block; height: 24px; width: 24px; margin-top: -1px; transform: rotateZ(-180deg);">

Due to the numerous translations, the Bible has undergone, "Jesus" is the modern term for the Son of God. His original Hebrew name is Yeshua, which is short for yehōshu'a. ... When Yeshua is translated into Greek, which the New Testament is derived from, it becomes Iēsous, which in English spelling is "Jesus." Dec. 24, 2018

Do please also keep in mind that Joshua and Yeshua are the same names. I would sooner say that God is to the rescue (especially by presenting the Messiah at the proper time), but!

it does not mean that Jesus is God equal to two (other) persons.

Clear · Oct 16, 2021

Readers,

I think it is dishonest to offer fake and unauthentic text to readers in order to support a doctrine. I think the scriptures are sacred and should not be changed and modified to try to make it appear that a scripture proves a point we are trying to make.

1) FAKING BIBLICAL TEXT AND IT'S AFFECT ON THE CHRISTIAN WITNESS
One major problem is that if we contaminate the scriptures with arbitrary and dishonest text, then the value of our Christian witness is tainted and lessened to the degree that we are dishonest. This neither proves a doctrine nor does it honor God nor does it keep scriptures sacred and clean of contamination.

2) THE PRESENT EXAMPLE OF FAKE JOHN 1:18
Let me explain the specific example that is currently under discussion and start by discussing the authentic version of John found in various manuscripts and its variants. There are only four known important variants of John 1:18 regarding who the term “begotten” is referring to.

The version we are speaking of, which m most scholars feel is the most (rated "B" in gn4) original is :

Θεον ουδεις εωρακεν ποποτε ο μονογενες Θεοσ ο ων εις τον κολπον τον πατρος εκεινος εχεγησατο.

Literally, in word for word order this translates as

God – not one - has seen – ever – the - only-begotten – God - the [one] - who is – in – the - bosom - of the – Father. That one - describes [him]

Dogknox20 offered multiple fake versions in an attempt to prove Jesus was the same God as his Father. My criticism has nothing to do with his doctrine, but rather with the contamination of, the faking of sacred biblical text to prove ANY doctrine. I think faking and contaminating biblical text is wrong to do.

Among the multiple fakes of John 1:18s Dogknox20 has offered, the one I picked out as an example was :

“No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.” (Dogknox20, post 1563)

Readers can see for themselves that the contamination of Fake text in blue above was added to John 1:18 but it does not appear in ANY known Greek variant of the Bible.

The motive to add fake text, was, presumably to support a doctrine espoused by the creator of that specific bible.

The original and authentic Greek does not refer to “one and only” son, and the original and authentic Greek does not have the words “who is himself God” and the original and authentic Greek does not have the word “and” in it, and the original and authentic Greek does not have the phrase “is in closest relationship with” in it.

These are all multiple contaminations and commentary IN A SINGLE SENTENCE that are NOT part of the authentic biblical text.

Again, my criticism of using fake text has nothing to do with the doctrine anyone is espousing, but I am criticizing the use of fake text to try to prove ANY doctrine.

I think contaminating and changing the sacred words of the bible is not something Christians should be doing.

Offering fake text cheapens any witness that uses fake text to support a specific point of view.

THE FEW VARIANTS OF JOHN 1:18 (NONE SUPPORT THE FAKE VERSION)
By the way, the variant of John that uses Μονογενης θεος (Only begotten God) is used in at least 8 very early and very important Greek source texts (I can identify them if someone is actually interested) and this specific variant is classed “B” in the GN4 (translators Greek) which means it is ‘almost certain’ that this is the most authentic variant. The reason for this “almost certainty” is the specific value of the Greek witnesses it is found in. (very early and very reliable textual witnesses).

The ONLY other known variants use the term “Ο μονογενης Yιος” (the only begotten son) and “Ο μονογενης” (the only begotten), ει μη ο μονογενης υιος (but the only begotten son), and three texts add “to us” after the final word in the second sentence. No other variants of importance exist.

NONE read according to the fake text offered to readers by Dogknox20 and importantly, many readers may not actually know what the authentic text says and may thus not know they are being offered fake text as though it was biblical.

3) THE ATTEMPT TO OFFER A LARGE COMMENTARY IN THE PLACE OF A SMALL TRANSLATION
It should also be obvious to readers that the 266 word and eleven sentence "translation" of the greek claimed by Dogknox20 at the end of his post #1575 is nothing of the sort.

4) DO UNTO OTHERS THAT WHICH YOU HOPE THEY WILL NOT DO UNTO YOU
It is supremely Ironic that Dogknox20 started out criticizing the Jehovahs Witnesses for their perfectly correct grammatic rendering of John 1:1c while he engaged in absolute tearing apart of the original text with an incredibly fake and unauthentic corruption of sacred text.

5) A POSSIBLE REASON BIBLES DO NOT USE THE MOST ORIGINAL VARIANT
Interestingly, one reason the more authentic version of "the only begotten God" in John 1:18 was modified to "the only begotten son" may have been that God the Father was seen as an "unbegotten God" and so the reference to a different "Begotten God" seemed to imply Henotheism where there are two beings that are "Gods", one subservient to the other and this seemed to be an uncomfortable doctrine for 3=1 trinitarians while 3=3 trinitarians, period historians, and restorationist were comfortable with the original text.

I hope this clears up my criticism of fake bible text to other readers.

Clear
φυσινετωακω

Dogknox20 · Oct 16, 2021

YoursTrue said:
Do please also keep in mind that Joshua and Yeshua are the same names. I would sooner say that God is to the rescue (especially by presenting the Messiah at the proper time), but! it does not mean that Jesus is God equal to two (other) persons.

.
YoursTrue Christians teach "Jesus is God"! Where are you getting your information from?!
It was not until man made churches came along 1900 years after Jesus established his Christian Church that men rejected Christian teaching!
Jesus is ALWAYS WITH his Church to the very end of time...His Christian Church guided into all truth by the Holy Spirit FOREVER teaches different then the JWs; their church was started by a man named; Charles Taze Russell.
..............................
Jehovah's Witnesses originated as a branch of the Bible Student movement, which developed in the United States in the 1870s among followers of Christian restorationist minister Charles Taze Russell. Bible Student missionaries were sent to England in 1881 and the first overseas branch was opened in London in 1900.
............................

YoursTrue These verses (below) are addressed to Jesus' CHRISTIAN Church! Not your JW church, not your man made church; it was not around when God said this! You MUST reject the words of God or twist them to say what you want God to have said!
John 16:13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

John 14:16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever—

1 Timothy 3:15 if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.
...............
YoursTrue Listen to the CHURCH or be treated as PAGAN... A Pagan is a person OUTSIDE of Christian belief, OUTSIDE of God' family!
Matthew 18:17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.
Arius WAS a CHRISTIAN until he rejected Christian teaching! He was treated as Pagan!
Christians have always taught "Jesus is GOD to reject and refuse to Listen to the Christian Church that Jesus established is to reject GOD! Just as the scriptures tell you!
Luke 10:16
“Whoever listens to you listens to me; whoever rejects you rejects me; but whoever rejects me rejects him who sent me.”

John 13:20
Very truly I tell you, whoever accepts anyone I send accepts me; and whoever accepts me accepts the one who sent me.”

JerryMyers · Oct 16, 2021

Dogknox20 said:
JerryMyers Jesus established a CHURCH before he left us... 1Timothy 3:15 and Ephesians 5:25-27 tell us about his Holy Church!
The Church Jesus established is the foundation of truth!
The Church is guided into ALL Truth by the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit is ALWAYS with the CHURCH>>> FOREVER<!
JerryMyers this means your CHURCH is not the truth, it means your church is NOT guided by the Holy Spirit.
It means your church cannot be teaching truth it teaches opposite to Jesus' CHRISTIAN Church! You are right in your belief or Christians are, both are complete opposites'!

18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Jesus gave his AUTHORITY to his CHURCH to TEACH ALL NATIONS! This AUTHORITY of Jesus cannot be in your man made come alone 1900 years after Jesus' church!... Jesus is ALWAYS WITH HIS HOLY BODY.. The CHURCH he established 2000 years ago!..... I am with you always, to the very end of the age....
JerryMyers I said it before but it is worth repeating.... To reject Christian teaching you MUST reject the words of God as lies!
QUESTION.. "Is Jesus always with his Church to the end of the age"?
QUESTION.. "Is the CHURCH Jesus established 2000 years ago the Pillar and the foundation of truth!?"
QUESTION.. "Is the Holy Spirit guiding the Church into all truth FOREVER"!?
You are forced to reject any of these questions for the teaching of your man made church otherwise you would be Christian!

Dogknox20, I said it before but it is worth repeating.... WITHOUT the Words of God and/or the words from any of His prophets to back up your blasphemous claim that Jesus is God means YOU GOT NOTHING or in other words, you are just talking NONSENSE............ YET AGAIN!!

Jesus is NOT God. Period. I said and believe that because God Himself said so - “I am the LORD, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God” – Isaiah 45:5. How crystal-clear is that???!

These words are NOT figuratively spoken BUT these are directly spoken Words from God Himself as recorded in your own scripture!! Now can you show me where in your whole Bible did God ever say directly (like His claim of Himself in Isaiah 45:5) that Jesus is God??! Can you do that?? If you cannot show me that, then, you are REJECTING God’s Words as lies!!

You are forced to reject God’s claim of Himself (as quoted in Isaiah 45:5) for the Satanic teaching of your man-made church that preaches to you the blasphemous belief that Jesus is God, otherwise you would NOT be a Christian! If that's what your church is all about, THANK GOD ALMIGHTY, I AM NOT A CHRISTIAN!!!!

Dogknox20 · Oct 16, 2021

JerryMyers said:
Dogknox20, I said it before but it is worth repeating.... WITHOUT the Words of God and/or the words from any of His prophets to back up your blasphemous claim that Jesus is God means YOU GOT NOTHING or in other words, you are just talking NONSENSE............ YET AGAIN!!

Jesus is NOT God. Period. I said and believe that because God Himself said so - “I am the LORD, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God” – Isaiah 45:5. How crystal-clear is that???!

These words are NOT figuratively spoken BUT these are directly spoken Words from God Himself as recorded in your own scripture!! Now can you show me where in your whole Bible did God ever say directly (like His claim of Himself in Isaiah 45:5) that Jesus is God??! Can you do that?? If you cannot show me that, then, you are REJECTING God’s Words as lies!!

You are forced to reject God’s claim of Himself (as quoted in Isaiah 45:5) for the Satanic teaching of your man-made church that preaches to you the blasphemous belief that Jesus is God, otherwise you would NOT be a Christian! If that's what your church is all about, THANK GOD ALMIGHTY, I AM NOT A CHRISTIAN!!!!

.
JerryMyers Christians teach Jesus is God! They have always taught Jesus is God! The scriptures tell you to LISTEN to the CHURCH! The CHURCH tells you "Jesus is God"!

THINK....Satan wants to be worshiped, he wants to be like God.. Satan told Jesus to "WORSHIP" him! What did Jesus tell Satan? Jesus told Satan "WORSHIP is ONLY for God"!
In the scriptures they "WORSHIP" Jesus! Jesus never stops the worship, Jesus never corrects them saying; "Don't worship me"! Jesus KNOWS beyond all doubt "WORSHIP is ONLY for God"! Would it be wrong for Jesus to accept the Worship?!
JerryMyers Is WORSHIP ONLY for God?!
Would it be wrong for Jesus NOT to correct them and stop the people worshipping himself!?
The ONLY logical conclusion is "Jesus is God" OR...

JerryMyers or Jesus is like Satan, he would even be worse then Satan! Take your pick one of the two choices!
NOW you can and most likely will deny the scriptures as fake or corrupted! But we know from past experience that you will reject what you read in the scriptures as being a LIE! You will NOT accept the words of God!
Elizabeth tells you in Luke 1: Mary is the mother of her God! Jews have ONE God not two not ten just one..... 43 But why am I so favored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

YoursTrue · Oct 16, 2021

Dogknox20 said:
.
YoursTrue Good point... Some scripture interpretations use the word Yeshuua.
NOG
You will become pregnant, give birth to a son, and name him Yeshua.
..............................................
Wikipedia
Yeshua in Hebrew is a verbal derivative from "to rescue", "to deliver". ... Among the Jews of the Second Temple period, the Biblical Aramaic/Hebrew name ...etc
.........................................
I guess you could say "God to the rescue!"
Immanuel” (which means “God with us”)
......
Does Yeshua mean Jesus?
"); display: inline-block; height: 24px; width: 24px; margin-top: -1px; transform: rotateZ(-180deg);">

Due to the numerous translations, the Bible has undergone, "Jesus" is the modern term for the Son of God. His original Hebrew name is Yeshua, which is short for yehōshu'a. ... When Yeshua is translated into Greek, which the New Testament is derived from, it becomes Iēsous, which in English spelling is "Jesus." Dec. 24, 2018

Very good, DogKnox20! Hopefully we can get back to this later in more detail.

Dogknox20 · Oct 16, 2021

YoursTrue said:
Very good, DogKnox20! Hopefully we can get back to this later in more detail.

.
Yes Mary named her son Jesus!
THEY... (I must assume Christians) WILL call him "God with us"!
.... they will call him Immanuel” (which means “God with us”).

God HIMSELF gives us a sign.... it is.. Mary giving birth to Jesus!
Isaiah 7:14
Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.
YoursTrue It all fits together...
John 1:14 The Word (God .. Immanuel ) became flesh and made his dwelling among us. (God with us)
John 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

JerryMyers · Oct 17, 2021

Dogknox20 said:
.
JerryMyers Christians teach Jesus is God! They have always taught Jesus is God! The scriptures tell you to LISTEN to the CHURCH! The CHURCH tells you "Jesus is God"!
THINK....Satan wants to be worshiped, he wants to be like God.. Satan told Jesus to "WORSHIP" him! What did Jesus tell Satan? Jesus told Satan "WORSHIP is ONLY for God"!
In the scriptures they "WORSHIP" Jesus! Jesus never stops the worship, Jesus never corrects them saying; "Don't worship me"! Jesus KNOWS beyond all doubt "WORSHIP is ONLY for God"! Would it be wrong for Jesus to accept the Worship?!
JerryMyers Is WORSHIP ONLY for God?!
Would it be wrong for Jesus NOT to correct them and stop the people worshipping himself!?
The ONLY logical conclusion is "Jesus is God" OR...
JerryMyers or Jesus is like Satan, he would even be worse then Satan! Take your pick one of the two choices!
NOW you can and most likely will deny the scriptures as fake or corrupted! But we know from past experience that you will reject what you read in the scriptures as being a LIE! You will NOT accept the words of God!
Elizabeth tells you in Luke 1: Mary is the mother of her God! Jews have ONE God not two not ten just one..... 43 But why am I so favored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

Dogknox20, you are talking NONSENSE….. AGAIN and AGAIN and YET AGAIN!!

THINK: Why would Jesus tell Satan to worship ONLY God if he himself is God??
I will tell you – that’s because Jesus is NOT God and he himself worships and prays to God, so he’s telling Satan to do the same instead of trying to tempt him!!

The fact that Satan tries to tempt Jesus with all the wealth of the world tells us even Satan knew Jesus is NOT God - why would anyone want to tempt God with anything knowing very well God can create and have anything by just commanding whatever He wishes with just a word??!
So THINK, Dogknow20!! Then again, we both know thinking is NOT your strong point!

Dogknox20 said:
.In the scriptures they "WORSHIP" Jesus! Jesus never stops the worship, Jesus never corrects them saying; "Don't worship me"! Jesus KNOWS beyond all doubt "WORSHIP is ONLY for God"! Would it be wrong for Jesus to accept the Worship?!
JerryMyers Is WORSHIP ONLY for God?!
Would it be wrong for Jesus NOT to correct them and stop the people worshipping himself!? The ONLY logical conclusion is "Jesus is God" OR..

Jesus DID NOT stop the people from ‘worshipping’ him because Jesus knew their ‘worship’ of him is that of obeisance.

The word ‘worshiped’ in Matthew 28:9 and Matthew 14:33 was translated from the Greek word ‘proskuneo’. And here’s the definition as given by the KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon –
“3. in the NT by kneeling or prostration to do homage (to one) or make obeisance, whether in order to express respect or to make supplication

used of homage shown to men and beings of superior rank:

1. to the Jewish high priests
2. to God
3. to Christ
4. to heavenly beings
5. to demons”
https://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/kjv/proskuneo.html

The fact that the KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon placed ‘to God’ and ‘to Christ’ separately, tells us that the worship of Jesus IS NOT the same as the worship to God. The worship of Jesus is an expression of deep respect/obeisance which should NOT be confused with the worship of God which is an expression of TOTAL SUBMISSION.

Dogknowx20, you can try to brainwash yourself by saying to yourself ‘Christians teach Jesus is God’ repeatedly BUT that does not change the fact that God Himself made a claim that besides Him, there’s no other God which straight away blows your claim that Jesus is God to pieces!!

You can create your own reality and in this reality of yours, you can believe those who point out to you Jesus is NOT God are wrong and they did not accept the Words of God BUT that does not change the fact IT IS YOU who rejected the Words of God by blasphemously claiming Jesus is God WHEN in your own scripture, it’s recorded God Himself had CLEARLY said besides Him, there’s no other God!!

The only way you can believe Jesus is God is to dismiss God’s claim of Himself in Isaiah 45:5 as false!! Is that what you are saying - that God made a false claim of Himself when He said besides Him, there’s no other God???

Dogknox20 · Oct 17, 2021

JerryMyers said:
Dogknox20, you are talking NONSENSE….. AGAIN and AGAIN and YET AGAIN!!

THINK: Why would Jesus tell Satan to worship ONLY God if he himself is God??
I will tell you – that’s because Jesus is NOT God and he himself worships and prays to God, so he’s telling Satan to do the same instead of trying to tempt him!!

The fact that Satan tries to tempt Jesus with all the wealth of the world tells us even Satan knew Jesus is NOT God - why would anyone want to tempt God with anything knowing very well God can create and have anything by just commanding whatever He wishes with just a word??!
So THINK, Dogknow20!! Then again, we both know thinking is NOT your strong point!

Jesus DID NOT stop the people from ‘worshipping’ him because Jesus knew their ‘worship’ of him is that of obeisance.

The word ‘worshiped’ in Matthew 28:9 and Matthew 14:33 was translated from the Greek word ‘proskuneo’. And here’s the definition as given by the KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon –
“3. in the NT by kneeling or prostration to do homage (to one) or make obeisance, whether in order to express respect or to make supplication

used of homage shown to men and beings of superior rank:

1. to the Jewish high priests
2. to God
3. to Christ
4. to heavenly beings
5. to demons”
https://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/kjv/proskuneo.html

The fact that the KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon placed ‘to God’ and ‘to Christ’ separately, tells us that the worship of Jesus IS NOT the same as the worship to God. The worship of Jesus is an expression of deep respect/obeisance which should NOT be confused with the worship of God which is an expression of TOTAL SUBMISSION.

Dogknowx20, you can try to brainwash yourself by saying to yourself ‘Christians teach Jesus is God’ repeatedly BUT that does not change the fact that God Himself made a claim that besides Him, there’s no other God which straight away blows your claim that Jesus is God to pieces!!

You can create your own reality and in this reality of yours, you can believe those who point out to you Jesus is NOT God are wrong and they did not accept the Words of God BUT that does not change the fact IT IS YOU who rejected the Words of God by blasphemously claiming Jesus is God WHEN in your own scripture, it’s recorded God Himself had CLEARLY said besides Him, there’s no other God!!

The only way you can believe Jesus is God is to dismiss God’s claim of Himself in Isaiah 45:5 as false!! Is that what you are saying - that God made a false claim of Himself when He said besides Him, there’s no other God???

.
JerryMyers Scriptures tell you word for word. ."Worship is ONLY for God"! You are forced to reject or twist the scriptures... FACT: Satan wants to be worshiped by men, clearly he would never want man to worship Jesus if he himself wants man to worship himself!
JerryMyers The first step for Satan is: "Teach Jesus is NOT God"! His churches do just that! Satan is ANTI-Christ LOGIC alone says to fight against God is to spread the lie Jesus is NOT God! If Jesus is NOT God then man will not worship Jesus! For man to stop worshipping Jesus is a way for Satan to take their souls!

*Matthew starts with Man worshipping Jesus!
Matthew 2:11
On coming to the house, they saw the child with his mother Mary, and they bowed down and worshiped him. Then they opened their treasures and presented him with gifts of gold, frankincense and myrrh.
*Matthew ends with man worshipping Jesus
Matthew 28:17
When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted..... NEVER...

JerryMyers never can you find in the scriptures Jesus stopping man from worshipping him! Never ever do you find Jesus correcting men that worship himself!

Matthew 14:33
Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.”
Matthew 28:9
Suddenly Jesus met them. “Greetings,” he said. They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him.

Being God' Son means; Jesus has all the attributes of God!

JerryMyers I am very sure your children look and act just like Chickens because they would never ever take the talent and looks of you and your wife! No one in the history of man has given their looks and talents to their children's! Why should God' ONLY son take on God' character!?

FACT: Jesus took on 100% of Mary' and 100% of God' character; Jesus is the Man/God! Jesus is PERFECT only God is perfect!

Soapy · Oct 17, 2021

YoursTrue said:
I would just like to mention that the angel told Mary she was to call her son Jesus.
Luke 1:31 - "You will conceive and give birth to a son, and you are to call him Jesus."

Just a point of order:

‘Jesus’ is not what was said. The name was ‘JOSHUA’… but modern interpretation turned it into ‘Jesus’ …
Jews named their male child with a name of a forefather. That is why the story of Zachariah and the naming of his son-to-be is in the gospels. There was no Fairweather in the line of Zachariah named ‘John’ and so Zachariah argued so vehemently with the Angel that the Angel shut his mouth until Zachariah agreed to make the child, ‘John’.
In the case of ‘Jesus’, Mary knew there was a forefather named ‘Joshua’ and therefore there was no need for objection
Both names, ‘Joshua’ and ‘Jesus’, mean exactly the same because they are the same…
The anointed Jesus is distinguished from the Joshua of Moses’ generation by the epitaph, ‘Christ’, which means, ‘Anointed One’… Jesus [the] Christ

JerryMyers · Oct 17, 2021

Dogknox20 said:
JerryMyers Scriptures tell you word for word. ."Worship is ONLY for God"! You are forced to reject or twist the scriptures... FACT: Satan wants to be worshiped by men, clearly he would never want man to worship Jesus if he himself wants man to worship himself!
JerryMyers The first step for Satan is: "Teach Jesus is NOT God"! His churches do just that! Satan is ANTI-Christ LOGIC alone says to fight against God is to spread the lie Jesus is NOT God! If Jesus is NOT God then man will not worship Jesus! For man to stop worshipping Jesus is a way for Satan to take their souls!
*Matthew starts with Man worshipping Jesus!
Matthew 2:11
On coming to the house, they saw the child with his mother Mary, and they bowed down and worshiped him. Then they opened their treasures and presented him with gifts of gold, frankincense and myrrh.
*Matthew ends with man worshipping Jesus
Matthew 28:17
When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted..... NEVER...
JerryMyers never can you find in the scriptures Jesus stopping man from worshipping him! Never ever do you find Jesus correcting men that worship himself!
Matthew 14:33
Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.”
Matthew 28:9
Suddenly Jesus met them. “Greetings,” he said. They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him.
Being God' Son means; Jesus has all the attributes of God!

Dogknox20, yet AGAIN you are talking NONSENSE!! You SHOULD STOP POSTING if you are NOT able to understand your own scripture, let alone, understand Jesus!!! BUT hey, if you want to make a fool of yourself by talking NONSENSE, again and again, I am always here to expose your NONSENSE again and again too – you can thank me later!

If you are a man of integrity, then SHOW me wherein your whole Bible did Jesus tell you, as you put it, word for word. ."Worship is ONLY for God"???? If you cannot, then, AGAIN, you are just exposing yourself as a man of NO integrity!!

THINK!! Jesus told Satan to worship God, NOT him!! – if Jesus is God, he will tell Satan to worship him!! You are NOT just talking NONSENSE, you are also exposing yourself as one who will lie and say anything just to tailor-fit your FALSE belief into the scripture!!

Here's the thing - if you insist “Worship is ONLY for God”, then, you should know that Jesus, in quoting Isaiah, spoke of those who worship him – “In vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men’” – Matthew 15:9. I think this fits you PERFECTLY because you too preach as scripture the words of other people!!

Dogknox20 said:
JerryMyers I am very sure your children look and act just like Chickens because they would never ever take the talent and looks of you and your wife! No one in the history of man has given their looks and talents to their children's! Why should God' ONLY son take on God' character!?
FACT: Jesus took on 100% of Mary' and 100% of God' character; Jesus is the Man/God! Jesus is PERFECT only God is perfect!

LOL!! If you yourself had questioned why should Jesus take on God’s character, then, saying Jesus “took on 100% of God' character” tells me you DO NOT KNOW what you are talking about!! Poor guy!!

Anymore NONSENSE you want to tell me??? Keep them coming - this is fun!!

YoursTrue · Oct 17, 2021

Soapy said:
Just a point of order:

‘Jesus’ is not what was said. The name was ‘JOSHUA’… but modern interpretation turned it into ‘Jesus’ …

Excuse me, but what do you mean by that? Can you explain, although I think we've been this way before?

Soapy · Oct 18, 2021

YoursTrue said:
Excuse me, but what do you mean by that? Can you explain, although I think we've been this way before?

What are you asking?

I take it from your shock that you do not know that ‘Jesus’ is not a JEWISH name.

The PROPER name is ‘JOSHUA’.

Check it out for yourself. Check an online concordance or Jewish name dictionary or whatever.

Iguess you also do not know about Jews naming their male children in those times???!!

I also guess you never ever thought about why Zachariah was made dumb by the Angel when he remonstrated with the Angel who told him he should name his son-to-be-born, ‘John’!

Well, I hope you are on a road to biblical and scriptural truths that will aid your understanding in the future.

It is exactly small realities like these that help to keep truth seekers on the rough and narrow path. Others do not know these things and are therefore mis-led later on down the line because they do not understand the basics.

Point of order…
There are those who say Jesus is god because Jesus is called ‘Lord’ in places in scriptures. AND God is called ‘LORD’ in the Old Testament. Therefore the two are one ‘Lord’ and therefore one God!

Do you believe that?

Well, do you know that in the Old Testament the Bible translators CHANGED the NAME OF GOD from ‘YHWH’ to ‘LORD’ ….

And that ‘Lord’ (only ‘L’ capitalised) just means like ‘Master’, ‘Boss’, ‘Noble’, ‘Superior’, etc.

The two are NOT THE SAME….! But a naive person would conflate the two and believe the lie!!!!

My point? Learn the truth and you will not be fooled by those who are out to deceive!!!

2ndpillar · Oct 18, 2021

Soapy said:
What are you asking?

I take it from your shock that you do not know that ‘Jesus’ is not a JEWISH name.

The PROPER name is ‘JOSHUA’.

Check it out for yourself. Check an online concordance or Jewish name dictionary or whatever.

Iguess you also do not know about Jews naming their male children in those times???!!

I also guess you never ever thought about why Zachariah was made dumb by the Angel when he remonstrated with the Angel who told him he should name his son-to-be-born, ‘John’!

Well, I hope you are on a road to biblical and scriptural truths that will aid your understanding in the future.

It is exactly small realities like these that help to keep truth seekers on the rough and narrow path. Others do not know these things and are therefore mis-led later on down the line because they do not understand the basics.

Point of order…
There are those who say Jesus is god because Jesus is called ‘Lord’ in places in scriptures. AND God is called ‘LORD’ in the Old Testament. Therefore the two are one ‘Lord’ and therefore one God!

Do you believe that?

Well, do you know that in the Old Testament the Bible translators CHANGED the NAME OF GOD from ‘YHWH’ to ‘LORD’ ….

And that ‘Lord’ (only ‘L’ capitalised) just means like ‘Master’, ‘Boss’, ‘Noble’, ‘Superior’, etc.

The two are NOT THE SAME….! But a naive person would conflate the two and believe the lie!!!!

My point? Learn the truth and you will not be fooled by those who are out to deceive!!!

While Joshua may well be the correct Gentile translation, it was not the "Jewish"/Aramaic name used.

2ndpillar · Oct 18, 2021

Soapy said:
Just a point of order:

‘Jesus’ is not what was said. The name was ‘JOSHUA’… but modern interpretation turned it into ‘Jesus’ …

Jews named their male child with a name of a forefather. That is why the story of Zachariah and the naming of his son-to-be is in the gospels. There was no Fairweather in the line of Zachariah named ‘John’ and so Zachariah argued so vehemently with the Angel that the Angel shut his mouth until Zachariah agreed to make the child, ‘John’.

In the case of ‘Jesus’, Mary knew there was a forefather named ‘Joshua’ and therefore there was no need for objection

Both names, ‘Joshua’ and ‘Jesus’, mean exactly the same because they are the same…

The anointed Jesus is distinguished from the Joshua of Moses’ generation by the epitaph, ‘Christ’, which means, ‘Anointed One’… Jesus [the] Christ

All the Jewish kings, prophets, and judges were "anointed".

Soapy · Oct 18, 2021

2ndpillar said:
All the Jewish kings, prophets, and judges were "anointed".

While at the end of the day it doesn’t matter, what I’m showing you is to first learn the truth and then you will not be mis-led.

I notice you are not interested in why Zacharias was made dumb by the Angel…..

Is the truth too much for you?

The story is there FOR THE EXACT REASON we are discussing this point!!!

Mary was not appalled that no one in her lineage was called ‘Jesus’. She accepted exactly what the Angel told her to do! Zacharias argued si vehemently that no one was ever named John in his lineage … that the Angel made him dumb until he did agree!!!

Just because these days we accept the name Jesus is not a sin or a problem since the two makes ‘Joshua’ and ‘Jesus’ mean the same thing!

We WANT to distinguish Joshua of the New Testament from Joshua of the Old Testament and that is all well and good… but know the truth. - FIRST!!!

Joshua led the Israelites into the land of milk and honey (into the paradise of that time)
Jesus will lead the children of God into the paradise kingdom to come

Their names tell their quest and achievements. Names mean things to Jews … God purposely sent the Angel to make sure that the child to be born was appropriately named. It was not an accident.

And, note that ‘Jesus’ is not a UNIQUE NAME…. There were other men who were named ‘Jesus’ in those times but scriptures only refers to them fleetingly and Jesus is DISTINGUISHED by his profession (The Carpenter) or by his home town (of Nazareth) and by his special position as Son of God (The Christ…. The anointed one).

We, now, only need say, ‘Jesus’ because we are not interested nor acquainted with any other ‘Jesus’ from scriptural times nor any of contemporary times!

This will set a precedence for you in the future. Learn the truth and then elaborate around it!

Soapy · Oct 18, 2021

2ndpillar said:
All the Jewish kings, prophets, and judges were "anointed".

Yes, this is true. But like all things with God, the oil used for the anointing was of earthly matter.

Jesus’ anointing was with the Holy OIL … not if earthly making.

The earthly oil did not give the anointed person POWER. It was merely SYMBOLIC to show that that person had been chosen, set apart, sanctified, for God’s work as a king of as a priest. One of the other.

Jesus was anointed for BOTH kingship and Priesthood.

And Jesus’ anointing gave him THE POWER OF GOD….(See Acts 10: 37-38)

The Apostkes likewise, when anointed with the HOLY SPIRIT gained powers of varying degrees… No one of the past anointings (O.T.) gained powers by being anointed!

This is what has been desperately disavowed by Trinitarians in which it is said that the Father was pleased that the son should be FILLED WITH GODLINESS… they change the wording to say ‘Godhead’ which is not a word used in scriptures at all.

Not only that but it makes no sense to say that Jesus is God and was filled with the Godhead … since, if Jesus was already God then how could he be then filled with ALL THAT HE ALREADY WAS… including himself… since the Godhead in trinity is defined as ‘Father, Son, and Holy Spirit’….!

Jesus would therefore be FILLED WITH ‘Father, Son, and Holy Spirit’…

Of course, when this is pointed out to them they immediately deny their claim and start claiming some other absurd permutation of trinity nonsense!

Watchtower: Jesus is not "a god"!

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