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John 14:6

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
.
You quote scriptures.... Look at this one...
Hebrews 2:9 But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

ben d Jesus was born as a man so he could die as a man! ONLY God is perfect; Jesus the PERFECT MAN died, being PERFECT he rose from death; death could not hold him he was perfect, he was without sin!
Thomas is a CHRISTIAN he believes Jesus is GOD! Christians believe and TEACH Jesus is God; Jesus tells you in the scriptures..(Scriptures you MUST REJECT) all who believe as Thomas are blessed! Thus: Logic alone tells you.. All (you) who reject Jesus are NOT blessed! Immortality can only come when the soul is free from self identifying with mortal stuff, and the bible tells you the body is not you, you are a soul, and that soul is the spirit of God.

ben d Jesus rose from death now all who are IMMERSED "ADDED" to the body of Jesus will also rise from death!
40 With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.” 41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.

Arius WAS a Christian until he taught Jesus is NOT God! Arius was rejected by Christians because Christians teach "Jesus is God" they always have! Satan rejects Jesus and so do you!
So you admit Jesus was born a man, So were you, any chance God is your Father? Yes, if what Jesus said is true, that all the powers he had, you have the potential to have, plus, while there is only one God, God's omnipresence is in every expression. God is you, but you the personal self is not God. The bible tells you your body is not you, stop self identifying with it and identify with your soul, which is the spirit of God, you will be immortal.
 

Dogknox20

Well-Known Member
So you admit Jesus was born a man, So were you, any chance God is your Father? Yes, if what Jesus said is true, that all the powers he had, you have the potential to have, plus, while there is only one God, God's omnipresence is in every expression. God is you, but you the personal self is not God. The bible tells you your body is not you, stop self identifying with it and identify with your soul, which is the spirit of God, you will be immortal.
.
You are a little mixed up..
Jesus is God, Thomas tells you; Jesus is God!
Christians tell you "Jesus is God"! I call God father because I was ADDED to Jesus! FACT: God has ONLY ONE SON.... To be able to call God Father you MUST be "IN Jesus"! AS LONG...

ben d
as long as I "Remain IN Jesus" God is my father!
54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me.
&
4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.

ben d As long as I remain in Jesus is also will have eternal life and live forever! You reject Jesus, you reject life! You reject what Christians have always taught and believed "Jesus is God"!
Jesus is Perfect only God is perfect!
 

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
.
You are a little mixed up..
Jesus is God, Thomas tells you; Jesus is God!
Christians tell you "Jesus is God"! I call God father because I was ADDED to Jesus! FACT: God has ONLY ONE SON.... To be able to call God Father you MUST be "IN Jesus"! AS LONG...

ben d
as long as I "Remain IN Jesus" God is my father!
54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me.
&
4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.

ben d As long as I remain in Jesus is also will have eternal life and live forever! You reject Jesus, you reject life! You reject what Christians have always taught and believed "Jesus is God"!
Jesus is Perfect only God is perfect!
I am not arguing with you, I have said it is ok with me if you believe Jesus is God. What I am saying is that beliefs of themselves do not transform a mortal to an immortal. Only if you are prepared to be a disciple of Jesus and give up identifying with your mortal body aka a temple of God, for God's Holy Spirit within will you 'see' the Kingdom of Heaven. To be born of the water and the spirit as well as the flesh.

Corinthians 6:19. Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is within you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own.
 

Dogknox20

Well-Known Member
I am not arguing with you, I have said it is ok with me if you believe Jesus is God. What I am saying is that beliefs of themselves do not transform a mortal to an immortal. Only if you are prepared to be a disciple of Jesus and give up identifying with your mortal body aka a temple of God, for God's Holy Spirit within will you 'see' the Kingdom of Heaven. To be born of the water and the spirit as well as the flesh.

Corinthians 6:19. Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is within you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own.
ben d right off you should understand to be a "Disciple" you must be Baptized!
19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing ...

Disciples are made by baptism! Jesus is the Brother of the disciple... "Pointing to the Disciples Jesus said; Here are by brothers...!"

ben d if you are baptized you are then related to Jesus, if you are baptized God becomes your father! Baptism ADDS you to the Body of Jesus; God' only son!
ben d Baptism ADDS you to the IMMORTAL Jesus! Baptism ADDS you but you MUST REMAIN IN Jesus; to be IMMORTAL!
 

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
ben d right off you should understand to be a "Disciple" you must be Baptized!
19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing ...

Disciples are made by baptism! Jesus is the Brother of the disciple... "Pointing to the Disciples Jesus said; Here are by brothers...!"

ben d if you are baptized you are then related to Jesus, if you are baptized God becomes your father! Baptism ADDS you to the Body of Jesus; God' only son!
ben d Baptism ADDS you to the IMMORTAL Jesus! Baptism ADDS you but you MUST REMAIN IN Jesus; to be IMMORTAL!
I am happy that you are a disciple of Jesus, so next step is realize you are not your body, and transfer self identity from your body to the soul, God's spirit within your body. This is the straight path, ,and difficult it is.
 

Dogknox20

Well-Known Member
I am happy that you are a disciple of Jesus, so next step is realize you are not your body, and transfer self identity from your body to the soul, God's spirit within your body. This is the straight path, ,and difficult it is.
ben d to be IN Jesus is to have God inside of me! I am IN the Holy Body of Jesus thus God' spirit is inside of me!
6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”
 

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
ben d to be IN Jesus is to have God inside of me! I am IN the Holy Body of Jesus thus God' spirit is inside of me!
6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”
If the scripture says you are not your body, it is merely the temple of God, and then you claim God is inside of 'me', what is this 'me' you are referring to?
 

Dogknox20

Well-Known Member
If the scripture says you are not your body, it is merely the temple of God, and then you claim God is inside of 'me', what is this 'me' you are referring to?

You ask "What is Me"?
........................................................
Dictionary Dot Com
ME
pronoun
1) the objective case of I, used as a direct or indirect object: They asked me to the party. Give me your hand.
2) Informal. (used instead of the pronoun I in the predicate after the verb to be):It's me.
3) Informal. (used instead of the pronoun my before a gerund):Did you hear about me getting promoted?
.........................................................
ben d you are very confused! IF...
ben d
if you have been baptized then you are IN Jesus, you then would be in the Temple
Matthew 26:61
and declared, “This fellow said, ‘I am able to destroy the temple of God and rebuild it in three days.’”

ben d To be IN the Temple of God you MUST be "IN Jesus"!

1 Corinthians 3:17
If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy that person; for God’s temple is sacred, and you together are that temple.
ben d PLURAL: More then one! .... and you together are that temple ... ALL the people ADDED to the body of Jesus make up the temple!

3000 believers on the first day of Pentecost were baptized and ADDED to the body of Jesus! 3000 on this first day made up the Temple!

1 Corinthians 6:19
Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own;

temples Plural: More then one!
 

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
You ask "What is Me"?
........................................................
Dictionary Dot Com
ME
pronoun
1) the objective case of I, used as a direct or indirect object: They asked me to the party. Give me your hand.
2) Informal. (used instead of the pronoun I in the predicate after the verb to be):It's me.
3) Informal. (used instead of the pronoun my before a gerund):Did you hear about me getting promoted?
.........................................................
ben d you are very confused! IF...
ben d
if you have been baptized then you are IN Jesus, you then would be in the Temple
Matthew 26:61
and declared, “This fellow said, ‘I am able to destroy the temple of God and rebuild it in three days.’”

ben d To be IN the Temple of God you MUST be "IN Jesus"!

1 Corinthians 3:17
If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy that person; for God’s temple is sacred, and you together are that temple.
ben d PLURAL: More then one! .... and you together are that temple ... ALL the people ADDED to the body of Jesus make up the temple!

3000 believers on the first day of Pentecost were baptized and ADDED to the body of Jesus! 3000 on this first day made up the Temple!

1 Corinthians 6:19
Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own;

temples Plural: More then one!
The dictionary 'me' refers to the body, which is not you, you are a soul. I know that worldly language identifies the body as what and who a person is, but the world is a fallen state, the Corinthians quote corrects the error, the body is only a temple of God, the soul is the spirit of God. The Corinthians quote is addressing disciples plural, hence the use of 'temples' plural.

So it is fine that for functioning in this world that we accept the dictionary explanation of body identification, but we are discussing Christianity, and you are truly the spirit of God, though not yet self identifying with It, and in fact seem to be rejecting the truth of the Gospel.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I believe in having a solid base for beliefs. What is the basis of that belief?
The basis for my belief in Baha'u'llah is all the evidence that demonstrated to me that Baha'u'llah was a Manifestation of God.
After I determined that I believed everything He wrote, including what He said about God speaking to Him through the Holy Spirit.

“O KING! I was but a man like others, asleep upon My couch, when lo, the breezes of the All-Glorious were wafted over Me, and taught Me the knowledge of all that hath been. This thing is not from Me, but from One Who is Almighty and All-Knowing. And He bade Me lift up My voice between earth and heaven, and for this there befell Me what hath caused the tears of every man of understanding to flow.”
Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 57

“God is My witness, O people! I was asleep on My couch, when lo, the Breeze of God wafting over Me roused Me from My slumber. His quickening Spirit revived Me, and My tongue was unloosed to voice His Call.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 90


“And whenever I chose to hold my peace and be still, lo, the voice of the Holy Ghost, standing on my right hand, aroused me, and the Supreme Spirit appeared before my face, and Gabriel overshadowed me, and the Spirit of Glory stirred within my bosom, bidding me arise and break my silence. If your hearing be purged and your ears be attentive, ye will assuredly perceive that every limb of my body, nay all the atoms of my being, proclaim and bear witness to this call: “God, besides Whom is none other God, and He, Whose beauty is now manifest, is the reflection of His glory unto all that are in heaven and on earth.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 103-104
 

samtonga43

Well-Known Member
Thank you so much Dogknox20, I feel Trappist Monk Thomas Keating was correct, I feel the same way and it is where I am coming from also. It all get's back to "to love God is to let go of self". There is always going to be errors made on the journey to truth, to God, but these errors, including deception by demons, will eventually and surely be corrected so long as one's heart, mind, and soul is determined to settle for nothing less than total love of God. Do we suffer as a result of our errors, we certainly do, but it is the way of learning. As God says in Hebrews, a father does not punish his son because he hates him, but because he loves him. Perfection and purity of spirit is achieved through correction of errors, and it is the grace of God that shines the light on these errors, which we 'see' when our mind is not deceived by its own egoic conceit, in silence.


“As St. Thomas Aquinas (1225–1274) taught, whatever we say about God is more unlike God than saying nothing. If we do say something, it can only be a pointer toward the Mystery that can never be articulated in words. All that words can do is point in the direction of the Mystery.”
― Thomas Keating, On Prayer
 

samtonga43

Well-Known Member
The basis for my belief in Baha'u'llah is all the evidence that demonstrated to me that Baha'u'llah was a Manifestation of God.
After I determined that I believed everything He wrote, including what He said about God speaking to Him through the Holy Spirit.

A Summary
1. The B.man said that God spoke to him.
2. Tb read the words that the B.man said God spoke to him.
3. Tb believed the words the B.man said God spoke to him.
Thereafter...
4. Tb made up her mind that she will believes every word that the B.man said God spoke to him..

Is this correct?
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
A Summary
1. The B.man said that God spoke to him.
2. Tb read the words that the B.man said God spoke to him.
3. Tb believed the words the B.man said God spoke to him.
Thereafter...
4. Tb made up her mind that she will believes every word that the B.man said God spoke to him..

Is this correct?
No, it is not correct. The correct series of events is as follows:

A Summary
1. Baha'u'llah claimed that God spoke to Him.
2. Tb looked at all the evidence in order to determine if Baha'u'llah's claim was actually true.
3. After Tb looked at all the evidence Tb believed that Baha'u'llah's claim was actually true.
Thereafter...
4. Tb made up her mind that she will believe everything that Baha'u'llah wrote.
 

samtonga43

Well-Known Member
No, it is not correct. The correct series of events is as follows:
A Summary
1. Baha'u'llah claimed that God spoke to Him.
2. Tb looked at all the evidence in order to determine if Baha'u'llah's claim was actually true.
3. After Tb looked at all the evidence Tb believed that Baha'u'llah's claim was actually true.
Thereafter...
4. Tb made up her mind that she will believe everything that Baha'u'llah wrote.

Exactly.
The evidence = the words the B.man wrote.
A Summary
1. Baha'u'llah claimed that God spoke to Him.
2. Tb looked at all the evidence in order to determine if Baha'u'llah's claim was actually true.
3. After Tb looked at all the evidence Tb believed that Baha'u'llah's claim was actually true.
Thereafter...
4. Tb made up her mind that she will believe everything that Baha'u'llah wrote.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Exactly.
The evidence = the words the B.man wrote.
A Summary
1. Baha'u'llah claimed that God spoke to Him.
2. Tb looked at all the evidence in order to determine if Baha'u'llah's claim was actually true.
3. After Tb looked at all the evidence Tb believed that Baha'u'llah's claim was actually true.
Thereafter...
4. Tb made up her mind that she will believe everything that Baha'u'llah wrote.
The evidence is not the words that Baha'u'llah wrote. The Writings are only part of the evidence.

Below is a list of the primary categories of evidence that indicates that Baha'u'llah was a Messenger of God.

1. His character (His qualities).

That can be determined by reading about Him in books such as the following:
The Revelation of Bahá'u'lláh, Volumes 1-4

2. His Revelation is what He accomplished (His Mission on earth, i,e., the history of the Baha'i Faith).

That can be determined by reading about His mission in books such as the following:
God Passes By (1844-1944)
The Revelation of Bahá'u'lláh, Volumes 1-4, which cover the 40 years of His Mission, from 1853-1892.

3. His Writings which can be found in books that are posted online: The Works of Bahá'u'lláh

4. Baha'u'llah fulfilled all the Bible prophecies which is like icing on the cake. That proves to me He was the Messiah and the return of Christ. Those prophecies and how they were fulfilled are delineated in the following book:
William Sears, Thief in the Night

5. Baha'u'llah predicted many events that later came to pass is more icing on the cake. Some of these predictions and how they came to pass are listed and delineated in this book: The Challenge of Baha'u'llah
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Jesus fulfilled all the Bible prophecies for the first coming.

The CONTEXT was evidence that prove the claims if Baha'u'llah to be true.

I did not mean that Baha'u'llah fulfilled all the Bible prophecies, I meant that Baha'u'llah fulfilled all the Bible prophecies that refer to the return of Christ and the promised Messiah, which is who He claimed to be. (Thanks for pointing that out, I just edited my Word document.)

Baha’u’llah’s Two Bold Claims

All of which leads us back to Baha’u’llah, who made two very bold claims. First, he declared he was God’s messenger for the next one thousand years, having the same divine authority, the same Holy Spirit, the same divine power, as Moses, Christ, Muhammad, and the other founders of the major world religions:

In the East the light of [God’s] Revelation hath broken; in the West have appeared the signs of His dominion. Ponder this in your hearts, O people, and be not of those who have turned a deaf ear to the admonitions of Him Who is the Almighty, the All-Praised. Let the Breeze of God awaken you. Verily, it hath wafted over the world. Well is it with him that hath discovered the fragrance thereof and been accounted among the well-assured.
– Baha’u’llah, Tablets of Baha’u’llah.

This station, by itself, makes the Baha’i Faith the youngest of the major world religions.

Baha’u’llah made a second and even more challenging claim. He declared he was the promised world messiah foretold in all the prophecies, in all the holy books, of all the religions of the world – the one promised to come on the Day of Judgment, the Day of God, the Time of the End, the End of the World, to establish the kingdom of God on Earth.

Baha’u’llah declared this period in history as the Day of God, the Time of the End. His mission is nothing less than the establishment of this glorious kingdom – the unification of the entire human race into an all-embracing, spiritually mature world civilization based upon divine principles of justice and love, and whose watchword will be unity in diversity.

With this second claim, Baha’is believe that all of the religions of the world have been consummated and fulfilled with the coming of Baha’u’llah.

https://bahaiteachings.org/what-did-bahaullah-teach?
 
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IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
For the sake of argument, I'll assume that he really said that.

When he said it, there was no Christianity. So if you take that quote literally he could not have been referring to that which did not then exist.

The next question I could propose is whether he was speaking of the human Jesus who lived and died or the eternal Christ. To me, his quote makes more sense spoken by the eternal Christ because he said that people who (truly) saw him saw the father.

Departing from Christian theology, what I see is that the eternal Christ, the Avatar, is the one who exists where all the rivers of belief merge into God.

In metaphorical terms he is the gate through which souls enter as they realize their union with Divinity.
There are many scandals that deprive Christainity of its moral authority. But the two biggest ones are:
1. That Christianity is exclusive in the face of very spiritual, very godly, rightous, virtuous people in other religions.
2. That Chrsitianity says heaven is onlh for those who believe, rather than for those who act rightly.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
I checked this out, and MOST of the socalled prophecies listed are not messianic prophecies at all. Let me give you three examples of what is listed that is NOT prophecy.

1.
Genesis 3:15
And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and hers;
he will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel.”

This verse is NOT about the messiah. It is about the enmity between mankind (the offspring of eve) and snakes.

2.
Isaiah 7:14
Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.

First, the word in hebrew is Almah. It means young woman, not virgin. There is a whole totally different word, betulah, that means virgin, which is not use.

Second, this prophecy is not about the messiah, but is about King Hezekiah.

3.
Hosea 11:1
“When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son.

Clearly this is speaking of Israel and the exodus, not the messiah.
 
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