• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Does evolution have a purpose?

Does evolution have a purpose

  • yes

    Votes: 17 32.1%
  • no

    Votes: 30 56.6%
  • not sure

    Votes: 6 11.3%

  • Total voters
    53

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
1. It's a hypothesis.
????? -- What's a hypothesis?
[qyite]2. What is the definition of a "selfish gene""
3. Can it be identified as such when examining genes?
4. You may be right -- but -- what about the gene apparently only recognizable in humans that make one want to live forever? Many, many, m-a-n-y people want to live forever wherever they think they will -- heaven - earth - in another body - etc.[/QUOTE]In biology, selfish gene is a proposal that many aspects of behavior and evolution can be predicted or described better as a competition at the genetic level, rather than among individual organisms. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene-centered_view_of_evolution
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Jesus strutted his miracle stuff in full public view, thats a lot of eyewitnesses..:)
...And not a one of them is known to have written a personal account of one of these miracles.

There are no first person accounts of Jesus in the Bible; no writings by any eyewitness. In fact, most of the books of the Bible were written by unknown authors. They only later became attributed to important religious characters, to give them more authority.
Wait, I feel a speculation coming on!!!-
Perhaps prayer is a kind of "thought pressure" that can influence this dream we call "reality", so perhaps Jesus was a "Master of the Art of Dream Manipulation", and he said we could do it too if we believed we could-

There have been many statistical studies on the efficacy of prayer, many of them double blind. Prayer has not been shown to be any more efficacious than random chance.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
...And not a one of them is known to have written a personal account of one of these miracles.

There are no first person accounts of Jesus in the Bible; no writings by any eyewitness. In fact, most of the books of the Bible were written by unknown authors. They only later became attributed to important religious characters, to give them more authority.
Wait, I feel a speculation coming on!!!-
There have been many statistical studies on the efficacy of prayer, many of them double blind. Prayer has not been shown to be any more efficacious than random chance.
About prayer, not sure what the subject was of the prayers.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
A human thinker says before ice the earth's heavens mass supported reptile giants cold blooded life. Gigantic tree forests.

They prove by having food in their mouth they instantly were snap frozen.

Thaw produces lots of carcass bones piled in flooding. Nature changed.

Seasons introduced.

Sea of the son. Human thinker theist said I named science status as a son of my father.

Just one proof that first man father after the ice age was not a scientist.

Four statements he said are now scientific introduced to modern day scientific thesis.

Seasons as four conditions change earths atmospheric mass naturally. A human advice.

Science hence cannot thesis our heavens as one evaluation.

O one he says is a one to twelve light timed account O.

Natural humans living owning sex. Live within the environment and atmospheric status.

Sex produced the animal baby body or the human baby body. Which is not evolution nor species adaptation.

Is the human natural teaching correct observed science.

Sex hence formed babies life who grew into adults bodies who have sex reproduce new babies healthy or mutated.

Meanwhile earths heavens changed when human chosen nuclear fallout irradiation is stopped.

Earths atmosphere changed.

Life however continued by sex.

Christ the heavens CH gases supported holy conscious human aware life with natural day of twelve the count. Within natural body of four in the twelve season change.

A scientific teaching for humans.

So Zero counting said the new year begins as AD.

After Christ.

Was not after Jesus.

Which you seem to ignore on purpose.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
Modern man said the Jesus attack had ended by holy mother status the space womb. The mother took it away the body of sacrifice as a scientific statement.

Humans on the ground live as humans naturally. Our sacrifice stopped when radiation was voided.

AD after Christ hierarchy highest state the Lord.

UFO attack gone.

Now modern humans still sick sacrificed own early age dying or babies mutated.

Paintings prove UFO radiation mass still active by itself. Is not owned by science machine is self mass present.

What came to earth after Jesus?

Satan radiation wandering star had hit owning burning gases.

So proof life's sacrifice had not finished as bible stated.

Men of science today use maths bible count as if Jesus attack had ended. For modern maths occult science belief applied studies. For new science thesis.

Shroud was kept to prove it was reactivated. As Satan irradiation star had returned the UFO ark radiation gas mass itself.

Moses event ended UFO ark attack of first temple science when it hit landed on the mountain.

Jesus ended with vacuum void.

Modern day irradiating ark gas not ended still owns causes of life's sacrifice.

We said 1900 Russia hit nearly returned Jesus as Christ but was still hot. Jesus event stopping UFO ark by void was inferred as year 2000 to 2012 never happened.

As nuclear sun dust science power plant has kept it active.

Pretty obvious that science could care less about life dying ....when robotic technology is believed to take our place so human slavery is no longer needed. Nor is the human population.

They seem to forget however that the cosmos owns control over what the UFO ark will cause.

Men were already taught the UFO ark lesson.
 

Dropship

Member
Jesus strutted his miracle stuff in full public view, thats a lot of eyewitnesses..
...And not a one of them is known to have written a personal account of one of these miracles.


Gospel-writers Matt Mark Luke and John had a ringside seat and when they wrote them nobody, NOT A SINGLE PERSON ever dare come forward to say "Baloney, it never happened", because they knew they'd just be making fools of themselves..:)
 

Dropship

Member
TNG-four-lightsB.jpg
 

Etritonakin

Well-Known Member
Does evolution have a purpose?
-If yes what is it?
-If no, why not?

One day I was looking at the periodic table -and realized it looked like a set of toy blocks.

These extremely complex "element" blocks came into existence by being arranged from that which already existed
(but we rarely try to look back beyond/before the initiation of the physical universe or consider that the universe might not be "everything" /the characteristics of the most basic "stuff" -the most basic blocks -which eventually became arranged as our universe -but perhaps something else before that)
Then these blocks self-assembled first into innumerable planets (relatively isolated/closed environments) -upon which they continued to self-assemble into a potentially-infinite variety of life forms -which tended toward increased mastery of environment (mastery of the blocks from which they and all else self-assembled) -and which increased in enjoyment or displeasure of environment, depending upon how the environment was in order or in disorder.
From these blocks the masters of environment can produce an extreme number of intended characteristics/properties and arrange them into countless configurations -by combining the blocks in various ways.
These life forms also tend toward the ability and desire to leave their isolated environments and explore the others.... including the countless differing worlds... upon which the potentially-infinite variety of life forms may already reside.......
so they can do really cool stuff wherever they go and also just be filled with awe...
but they have to learn to not mess up or blow up everything first.... so it's a good thing they begin in isolated environments.

Yah -that all took some forethought.

Some believe that "thought" requires the physical universe to first exist, but that the physical universe did not require thought to first exist.
That is what is apparent if only the physical universe which self-assembled is considered back to its specific initiation.

It is true that everything which exists must have initially self-assembled (Even God could not be responsible for his own initial existence or awareness) -but what would it assemble into first -next, etc.?
Would thought and self-awareness have self-assembled first? Would such an extremely complex environment as our universe self-assembled first?

Thought and self-awareness are the mechanisms by which any blocks may go beyond self-assembly -so must logically self-assemble "first" -but would also become increasingly able step-by-step as self and environment became more distinct and complex.
So... is the entire physical universe specifically the initial "self-assembly" from greatest possible simplicity -and we are the first mechanisms to move it beyond self-assembly???....
or was such a mechanism required to move greatest possible simplicity to become specifically the universe?

Did thought require the periodic table -or did the periodic table require thought?
Did the extremely complex and specific blocks require such a mechanism to arrange them from the most simple blocks? One might say the mechanism was the big bang, but the singularity must have already been as complex as necessary to specifically become the elements and all else -which is therefore not indicative of simplicity. The big bang was the execution of the product of the mechanism which caused the singularity (brought simplicity to that point -which was specific enough to become the universe specifically.

As anything happening differently when the singularity executed would have resulted in a different universe -if one at all -then the singularity/big bang would have been complex -like a specific sort of seed -rather than simplicity -to the degree that it could transform that which was into that which is -specifically.
It required that much information in order to specify to that degree.

The specifics of the universe -not only form, but function -would also indicate the nature of that by which it became essentially packaged and executed.

Some have said not to underestimate that of which "nature" without "self" is capable, but "self" is that which makes nature capable. It is REQUIRED between what is possible without it -and with it. It must first self-assemble in order to allow for more complex and purposeful (suited to self) arrangements by making changes nature alone could not -by knowledgeable alteration.
(An example on our level.... A river will take its presently-natural course one way or another until is sensed, stored in memory, diverted in memory/model according to intent -and that intent is then applied to divert the actual river -which can be in a way nature would and could never have accomplished without a self being involved)

As there is no actual difference between "self" (self-aware and environment-aware processor/manipulator) and environment -only logical separation and arrangement..... would "self" and environment initially develop interdependently in tandem -or would one be initially extremely augmented?

Must the overall initial simple environment have/have also become a simple yet increasingly complex self -thereby becoming able to continue more complex arrangement -as a self is a necessary arranger past initial self-assembly... as increasingly able?

One difference between such a self and our own selves is that such a self would have increasing input into its own arrangement -and that of its environment (initially both simple and not separate).
We have zero input into our selves until we awaken into already-extremely-complex and -capable bodies -and assume there never was any sort of "input" to cause that specific output.
 
Last edited:

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Gospel-writers Matt Mark Luke and John had a ringside seat and when they wrote them nobody, NOT A SINGLE PERSON ever dare come forward to say "Baloney, it never happened", because they knew they'd just be making fools of themselves..:)
You need to read some biblical history, or consult some of the Biblical scholars. The Gospels are of unknown authorship. Their attribution to Matthew, Mark, Luke and John occurred centuries after they were written.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorship_of_the_Bible#Gospels_and_Acts

"Mark, like all the gospels, is anonymous."
[Matthew]"The majority of modern scholars believe it is unlikely that this gospel was written by an eyewitness to the ministry of Jesus."
"There is general agreement that Luke and Acts originated as a two-volume work by a single author.This author was an "amateur Hellenistic historian", who was versed in Greek rhetoric, that being the standard training for historians in the ancient world. In the preface to Luke, the author refers to having eyewitness testimony "handed down to us" and to have undertaken a "careful investigation", but does not mention his own name or explicitly claim to be an eyewitness to any of the events."
"Scholars date John to 90–110 CE, with the lower date based on internal reference to the expulsion of Christians from the synagogues, and the upper on external evidence that the gospel was known in the early 2nd century."

Again: There are no first person accounts of either Jesus or his works, despite the elaborate legends promoted by the church over the centuries.
 

Dropship

Member
There are no first person accounts of either Jesus or his works, despite the elaborate legends promoted by the church over the centuries.


Who do you think wrote the gospels and preached the Sermon on the Mount, Mary Poppins?..:)
Oh wait, this startling new footage has just emerged...

rel-poppins-mount.jpg
 

Dropship

Member
LOL! -- The burden of proof is on the believers, not the disbelievers.


Nah mate, I never saw Elvis but am quite prepared to believe he existed because there were so many eyewitnesses who saw him..:)
Same with Jesus, he was almost as big as Elvis and seen by thousands of eyewitnesses too, right Elv?

 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Who do you think wrote the gospels and preached the Sermon on the Mount, Mary Poppins?..:)
Oh wait, this startling new footage has just emerged...

View attachment 56464
I think, as do biblical scholars everywhere, that the authors of the gospels are unknown, and not eyewitnesses to Jesus or his works.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorship_of_the_Bible#Gospels_and_Acts
"Mark, like all the gospels, is anonymous."
[Matthew]"The majority of modern scholars believe it is unlikely that this gospel was written by an eyewitness to the ministry of Jesus."
"There is general agreement that Luke and Acts originated as a two-volume work by a single author.This author was an "amateur Hellenistic historian", who was versed in Greek rhetoric, that being the standard training for historians in the ancient world. In the preface to Luke, the author refers to having eyewitness testimony "handed down to us" and to have undertaken a "careful investigation", but does not mention his own name or explicitly claim to be an eyewitness to any of the events."
"Scholars date John to 90–110 CE, with the lower date based on internal reference to the expulsion of Christians from the synagogues, and the upper on external evidence that the gospel was known in the early 2nd century."
 
Last edited:

Dropship

Member
I think, as do biblical scholars everywhere, that the authors of the gospels are unknown, and not eyewitnesses to Jesus or his works.


If you want to let "biblical scholars" do your thinking for you go ahead, but remember a fool with a Theology College diploma is still just a fool..;)
Jesus said:- "I thank you Father for hiding these things from the wise and learned, and for revealing them to little children" (Matt 11:25-27)
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
If you want to let "biblical scholars" do your thinking for you go ahead, but remember a fool with a Theology College diploma is still just a fool..;)
Jesus said:- "I thank you Father for hiding these things from the wise and learned, and for revealing them to little children" (Matt 11:25-27)
Those who think, agree that the gospels are apocryphal. Those who do not; the faithful, true believers who base belief on emotion and tradition, believe the Bible authoritative.

Alas, you can lead a true believer to scholarship, but you can't make him think.
 

ratiocinator

Lightly seared on the reality grill.
If you want to let "biblical scholars" do your thinking for you go ahead...

At least they actually think. They also rely on evidence rather than blind faith.
Jesus said:- "I thank you Father for hiding these things from the wise and learned, and for revealing them to little children"

No, that's what a book, written way after the events, says that he said.
 
Top