Judaism is much more than about the book/s though
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Christians and Jews Mostly: Messiah
- Thread starter Rival
- Start date
Judaism is much more than about the book/s though
You can't understand the book(s) without tradition, we need tradition. The point I'm making...forget the point I'm making I got to work on computer science assignment haha due in a week. I need to stop coming on these forums
. Time flies by.
rosends
Well-Known Member
First, your earlier statement was "Messiah is pointless if it's not for the salvation of humans" and I made the point that the notion of "saved" as a function of the messiah was meaningless in Judaism. You have expanded that to the notion of God's being a savior which is not what I said.
Second, you seem to think all "saved" is alike. People need to be saved all the time -- from fires, from their own bad habits and from mean people. Is this the "salvation" that you are talking about in regards to the messiah? Or are you talking about some sort of spiritual status? I see that there is such a thing as being "saved" that has nothing to do with your perception of "salvation" spiritually and that is the role of God (and not the messiah) making God extant and necessary.
No problem, the Trinity God is defined as three distinct 'persons,' and Jesus Christ is described as God incarnate seated on the right hand of God. In other religions considered polytheist, like Hinduism consider the 'many Gods to aspects of the One Supreme Deity just as in the Trinity, and like the Rtinity in Christianity they are polytheistic
There have been a number of threads in the past
Anyone can still be saved by repenting and believeing up to the moment of death, and nonetheless as the Pope states the Roman Church determines when and how 'true' sincere believers' are saved. Still a sincere part of the church at the moment of death are saved.
This does not change the facts of abominable behavior of the Roman Church throughout its history. Saints do not represent the behavior of the Roman Church in history. If nothing else they represent the exception in many cases.
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PruePhillip
Well-Known Member
Does get confusing, doesn't it?
My reading of Chapter 9 and 12 is that the one who comes to reign over the nations is the Messiah.
But this Messiah is recognized
as being the lowly man who was pierced
and the Jewish people mourn because of that connection.
How do YOU read it?
How do the Jews read it?
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
For starters, Christian bibles mistranslate the verse. It goes on from there. I'm feeling lazy this afternoon, so I'll simply refer you to the following YouTube vid on the subject:
Segev Moran
Well-Known Member
The bible was written from the Hebrew people POV. that is true.
This does not mean they do not have a view on the world.
There are detailed descriptions of countries, cultures, laws and societies that are non-Hebrew.
There is a detailed description of the politics of the different countries.
Can you elaborate your assumption basis?
I just showed you 4 verses clearly stating just that. I fail to understand why you disregard them.
Lol. You don't seem like a person I can debate with. Thank you for your answers.
Cheers
The bible was written from the Hebrew people POV. that is true.
This does not mean they do not have a view on the world.
There are detailed descriptions of countries, cultures, laws and societies that are non-Hebrew.
There is a detailed description of the politics of the different countries.
Can you elaborate your assumption basis?
I just showed you 4 verses clearly stating just that. I fail to understand why you disregard them.
Lol. You don't seem like a person I can debate with. Thank you for your answers.
Cheers
I believe the Jews in this thread have answered your questions. Throwing out Hebrew citations without explanations gets you nowhere, The Hebrew Tanakh does not deal with the world outside the Hebrew times and culture they were compiled.
They have described how Christians have mistranslated and misinterpreted the scriptures to fit their worldview.
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PruePhillip
Well-Known Member
So -
who are the Jews mourning for?
how can this mighty king be the same guy who was riding a donkey?
what do YOU think of him being pierced?
PruePhillip
Well-Known Member
I hold that the narrative from Abraham onwards to be quite literal. Prior to this
the account was more and more symbolic - though the first Genesis account
is amazingly accurate. Bit by bit the story is being filled out. We know more of
the kings and prophets now, plus the empires, cities and towns. And now we
have the full account of Sodom and Gomorrah as historical.
But my favorite is the future history of the Jewish people and the Messiah in
the Old and New Testaments. That ought to be recognized for what it is.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Colt
Well-Known Member
Yep, its a legitimate question. For me I'm a disciple of Jesus, of his original Gospel of the Kingdom which was eclipsed by a religion about Jesus.
I take the Old Testament with a grain of salt. Jesus was starting over fresh with a new gospel. Christians try to make it seem like there was a seamless transition between the Old and the New.
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
@shunyadragon : So... you can read Hebrew and understand it? You said you're fully aware of it??? Then translate the Hebrew for us; otherwise you look like donkey's rear end.
Not me. I collected posts on files on my computer from Theologyweb and books in my library over the years with translations and commentary by Jews, some scholars.I do not rely on my translation, which would be unbelievable foolish like Segev Moran posted. My view still stands the Tanakh only refers to the world, times and culture of the Hebrews during the times it was compiled, and does not refer to anything in the present times, People may interpret passages from the Tanakh to refere to things that Segev referenced, but it remains very variable and subjective personal interpretations, which was the crux of the disagreement.
Please note what I previously posted: "I believe the Jews in this thread have answered your questions. Throwing out Hebrew citations without explanations gets you nowhere, The Hebrew Tanakh does not deal with the world outside the Hebrew times and culture they were compiled."
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
So, you claimed to "know all of that" referring to Hebrew you can't translate or understand. Got it.
Credibility rating = zero
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Then how can the Tanakh be referring to a messiah that will come in the future in order to vindicate the Jews?
Again not me, and I do not claim 'to know all that.' I use Jewish sources.
NO, you do not 'Got it.'
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Dude See below. You said "I am aware of all the above". But you have no idea what it is saying.
Post #96. Maybe you forgot what you said since it was posted yesterday?
No I did not forget anything. You misrepresenting my posts, and you are being more than a bit obnoxious.
'Again not me, and I do not claim 'to know all that.' I use Jewish sources.
NO, you do not 'Got it.'"