Isaac Newton's Views on Religion

Clara Tea said:

Newton noted the various instances of God reforming humans. But God was all knowing and knew the future. Why was it necessary for God to change the system if he knew that the system was broken when he started it?

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The system was not broken when it started. Religions get corrupted over time and that is one reason religion needs to be renewed. Once a religion has fulfilled its purpose and is no longer useful to humanity it will be renewed by God. That is why God sends a new Messenger in every age, to renew religion and bring a new message that is pertinent to the present age.

“And now concerning thy question regarding the nature of religion. Know thou that they who are truly wise have likened the world unto the human temple. As the body of man needeth a garment to clothe it, so the body of mankind must needs be adorned with the mantle of justice and wisdom. Its robe is the Revelation vouchsafed unto it by God. Whenever this robe hath fulfilled its purpose, the Almighty will assuredly renew it. For every age requireth a fresh measure of the light of God. Every Divine Revelation hath been sent down in a manner that befitted the circumstances of the age in which it hath appeared.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 81

Clara Tea said:

Physicists are not theologians. This is like the Army.....you're a great cook, then join the typing pool.....you're a good driver, then march to the front lines.....you type with one finger, then type labels on medicine bottles. The Army is known for assigning the wrong people to the wrong task.

However, there is no driving test for religion...everyone is free to have an opinion....even Newton.

Newton noted the various instances of God reforming humans. But God was all knowing and knew the future. Why was it necessary for God to change the system if he knew that the system was broken when he started it?

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But you should know that Newton is not just another physicist or anyone who is just having an opinion. Maybe you should get to know about this guy a little better prior to making assertions like that.

Trailblazer said:

That might have been true in the days when Newton lived but I do not think it is necessarily true anymore.

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If it's not, I would say that that's because the world thinks it's moving on from the true source and not because the true source is in any way inefficacious.



John

danieldemol said:

In 1954 Einstein said, 'I cannot prove to you that there is no personal God, but if I were to speak of him, I would be a liar. I do not believe in the God of theology who rewards good and punishes evil. My God created laws that take care of that. His universe is not ruled by wishful thinking but by immutable laws."[71]'

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The question would seemingly be firstly whether He wrote the laws freely? Could he have written them other than He did? Did He have freedom to write, create, laws, according to the councils of His own will?


John

Trailblazer said:

Newton Predicts a Restoration of the True Gospel

And now the Gentiles have corrupted themselves, we may expect that God in due time will make a new reformation. And in all the reformations of religion hitherto made, the religion in respect of God and our neighbor is one and the same religion . . . so that this is the oldest religion in the world.[47]

Newton argued that it was the same religion that was restored from time to time by God because men deviated from this true religion. He concluded: “So then the mystery of this restitution of all things is to be found in all the Prophets: which makes me wonder with great admiration that so few Christians of our age can find it there.” [48]

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That's assuming there was a true gospel. Did he consider Islam as one of those "restorations of the True Gospel"?

Clara Tea said:

Newton noted the various instances of God reforming humans. But God was all knowing and knew the future. Why was it necessary for God to change the system if he knew that the system was broken when he started it?

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That is a common question that some of us ask. I even go so far as to ask... Was any religion, prior to the Baha'i Faith of course, ever perfect and ran smoothly even at the beginning? As TB seems to think.

Trailblazer said:

The system was not broken when it started. Religions get corrupted over time and that is one reason religion needs to be renewed. Once a religion has fulfilled its purpose and is no longer useful to humanity it will be renewed by God. That is why God sends a new Messenger in every age, to renew religion and bring a new message that is pertinent to the present age.

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This article comes from some one from Brigham Young University. I'd imagine that the "renewal" he is talking about is the Mormon Church and not the Baha'i Faith. So was Newton talking about the "renewal" of the "True" Christian gospel, which Mormons could that say is them. Or, was Newton talking about Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam along with Judaism and Christianity all being "renewals" which would lead to the Baha'i Faith?

As you know I feel that those other religions are just so vastly different than the Abrahamic religions that I don't see them as coming from the same "One God" source as Baha'is believe.

Evangelicalhumanist said:

Of course, Newton was also a huge fan of alchemy....looking for the "philospher's stone" and "the elixir of life." Brilliant, but still the slave of his own paradigms.

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Well what I saw in that statement was that his thoughts were very in tune with what a Messenger from God had offered and was also later to offer with more clarity.

So I say he was a breath of fresh air that the heads of Christianity at the time, would not have liked.

All we can know of God is the Attributes, but those attributes cannot and do not define the essence of God, they Define the essence of the Messenger, who is all we can know of God.

I feel Issac Newton may have seen the Wisdom and was another voice preparing the way for how we are to see God in this age, so here is part of his quote again.

".... The Supreme God is a Being eternal, infinite, absolutely perfect . . . and from his true dominion it follows that the true God is a living, intelligent, and powerful Being. . . . He is not eternity and infinity, but eternal and infinite; he is not duration or space, but he endures and is present".

All the attributes, but not defined by them reflects what Baha'u'llah has offered.

Regards Tony

John D. Brey said:

If it's not, I would say that that's because the world thinks it's moving on from the true source and not because the true source is in any way inefficacious.

John

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How is the Judeo-Christian source addressing all the problems we see in the today's world? How is it efficacious?

Maybe that was why Newton said that we need a reformation.

And now the Gentiles have corrupted themselves, we may expect that God in due time will make a new reformation. And in all the reformations of religion hitherto made, the religion in respect of God and our neighbor is one and the same religion . . . so that this is the oldest religion in the world.[47]

Newton argued that it was the same religion that was restored from time to time by God because men deviated from this true religion. He concluded: “So then the mystery of this restitution of all things is to be found in all the Prophets: which makes me wonder with great admiration that so few Christians of our age can find it there.” [48]

A Brief Survey of Sir Isaac Newton's Views on Religion | Religious Studies Center

CG Didymus said:

That's assuming there was a true gospel. Did he consider Islam as one of those "restorations of the True Gospel"?

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I don't know, but since he was a Christian probably not.

CG Didymus said:

This article comes from some one from Brigham Young University. I'd imagine that the "renewal" he is talking about is the Mormon Church and not the Baha'i Faith. So was Newton talking about the "renewal" of the "True" Christian gospel, which Mormons could that say is them. Or, was Newton talking about Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam along with Judaism and Christianity all being "renewals" which would lead to the Baha'i Faith?

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I think that Newton was talking about all the renewals of God one religion that have occurred back through history. He lived long before the Baha'i Faith was revealed so he was not referring to the Baha'i Faith. From what he said he knew that the Christian faith was in need of a renewal which is why he said that "God in due time will make a new reformation" but Newton did not specify how that reformation would be accomplished.

"And now the Gentiles have corrupted themselves, we may expect that God in due time will make a new reformation. And in all the reformations of religion hitherto made, the religion in respect of God and our neighbor is one and the same religion . . . so that this is the oldest religion in the world.[47]

Newton argued that it was the same religion that was restored from time to time by God because men deviated from this true religion. He concluded: “So then the mystery of this restitution of all things is to be found in all the Prophets: which makes me wonder with great admiration that so few Christians of our age can find it there.” [48]

A Brief Survey of Sir Isaac Newton's Views on Religion | Religious Studies Center

CG Didymus said:

As you know I feel that those other religions are just so vastly different than the Abrahamic religions that I don't see them as coming from the same "One God" source as Baha'is believe.

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Of course you know my explanation as to why they are different, but it makes no sense to me that there is more than one God. It makes more sense to me that God spoke differently to different people according to the needs of the times and the needs of the people He was addressing. Also, we have no way of knowing what was originally revealed about God in those religions since their so-called scriptures were written by the followers, not by the Prophet/Messenger.

Trailblazer said:

The system was not broken when it started. Religions get corrupted over time and that is one reason religion needs to be renewed. Once a religion has fulfilled its purpose and is no longer useful to humanity it will be renewed by God. That is why God sends a new Messenger in every age, to renew religion and bring a new message that is pertinent to the present age.

“And now concerning thy question regarding the nature of religion. Know thou that they who are truly wise have likened the world unto the human temple. As the body of man needeth a garment to clothe it, so the body of mankind must needs be adorned with the mantle of justice and wisdom. Its robe is the Revelation vouchsafed unto it by God. Whenever this robe hath fulfilled its purpose, the Almighty will assuredly renew it. For every age requireth a fresh measure of the light of God. Every Divine Revelation hath been sent down in a manner that befitted the circumstances of the age in which it hath appeared.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 81

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John 14:6

The Baha'i view would be Jesus was just for his time and place?

Regiomontanus said:

John 14:6

The Baha'i view would be Jesus was just for his time and place?

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The Baha'i view is all the Messengers are One, they all teach the same Message.

"The Bearers of the Trust of God are made manifest unto the peoples of the earth as the Exponents of a new Cause and the Revealers of a new Message. Inasmuch as these Birds of the celestial Throne are all sent down from the heaven of the Will of God, and as they all arise to proclaim His irresistible Faith, they, therefore, are regarded as one soul and the same person. For they all drink from the one Cup of the love of God, and all partake of the fruit of the same Tree of Oneness..... “No distinction do We make between any of His Messengers.” For they, one and all, summon the people of the earth to acknowledge the unity of God, and herald unto them the Kawthar of an infinite grace and bounty. They are all invested with the robe of prophethood, and are honored with the mantle of glory......"

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 50-56

Regards Tony

Regiomontanus said:

John 14:6

The Baha'i view would be Jesus was just for his time and place?

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John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Different Baha'is might answer that question differently since we all have individual perspectives. I believe that verse was true for the Dispensation of Jesus and Jesus said that because Jesus was "the way" that God wanted everyone to come to the Father during the Dispensation of Jesus. However, the verse does not say that Jesus was the only way to the Father for all of time. There have been ways to the Father before Jesus and ways to the Father after Jesus.

My view is that although Jesus came to a certain place, Jesus came for all of humanity as His teachings and cross sacrifice are relevant for all of humanity.

However, I believe that the Dispensation of Jesus lasted for a certain length of time and it was never intended to last forever.

Dispensation

1. the divine ordering of the affairs of the world.
2. an appointment, arrangement, or favor, as by God.
3. a divinely appointed order or age:

e.g. the old Mosaic, or Jewish, dispensation; the new gospel, or Christian, dispensation.

Definition of dispensation | Dictionary.com

I believe that the spiritual teachings of Jesus will always be pertinent because they are eternal, but once Jesus completed His Mission on earth and God sent more Messengers the Christians should have recognized those Messengers and listened to what they had to say. I also believe that every time God sends a new Messenger the divine ordering of the affairs of the world is according to the religion that He establishes, not according to the previous religions that were established.

I believe that Baha’u’llah is the Messenger of God for the present dispensation and God wants us to recognize and follow Him because He brought the message that humanity needs in this age, going forward, until God sends another Messenger in the future.

Regiomontanus said:

John 14:6

The Baha'i view would be Jesus was just for his time and place?

Click to expand...

Trailblazer said:

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Different Baha'is might answer that question differently since we all have individual perspectives. I believe that verse was true for the Dispensation of Jesus and Jesus said that because Jesus was "the way" that God wanted everyone to come to the Father during the Dispensation of Jesus. However, the verse does not say that Jesus was the only way to the Father for all of time. There have been ways to the Father before Jesus and ways to the Father after Jesus.

My view is that although Jesus came to a certain place, Jesus came for all of humanity as His teachings and cross sacrifice are relevant for all of humanity.

However, I believe that the Dispensation of Jesus lasted for a certain length of time and it was never intended to last forever.

Dispensation

1. the divine ordering of the affairs of the world.
2. an appointment, arrangement, or favor, as by God.
3. a divinely appointed order or age:

e.g. the old Mosaic, or Jewish, dispensation; the new gospel, or Christian, dispensation.

Definition of dispensation | Dictionary.com

I believe that the spiritual teachings of Jesus will always be pertinent because they are eternal, but once Jesus completed His Mission on earth and God sent more Messengers the Christians should have recognized those Messengers and listened to what they had to say. I also believe that every time God sends a new Messenger the divine ordering of the affairs of the world is according to the religion that He establishes, not according to the previous religions that were established.

I believe that Baha’u’llah is the Messenger of God for the present dispensation and God wants us to recognize and follow Him because He brought the message that humanity needs in this age, going forward, until God sends another Messenger in the future.

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A good meditation on the verse where Jesus as the Son says "No man cometh unto the Father, but by me", is that in the material world, the Son does become the Father.

Regards Tony

TransmutingSoul said:

The Baha'i view is all the Messengers are One, they all teach the same Message.

"The Bearers of the Trust of God are made manifest unto the peoples of the earth as the Exponents of a new Cause and the Revealers of a new Message. Inasmuch as these Birds of the celestial Throne are all sent down from the heaven of the Will of God, and as they all arise to proclaim His irresistible Faith, they, therefore, are regarded as one soul and the same person. For they all drink from the one Cup of the love of God, and all partake of the fruit of the same Tree of Oneness..... “No distinction do We make between any of His Messengers.” For they, one and all, summon the people of the earth to acknowledge the unity of God, and herald unto them the Kawthar of an infinite grace and bounty. They are all invested with the robe of prophethood, and are honored with the mantle of glory......"

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 50-56

Regards Tony

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If they all taught exactly the same message why would God need to send a new Messenger in every new age? I believe that the spiritual message is the same in every age and it is eternal, but every time God sends a new Messenger He comes with a new message that applies to the material world and that message is pertinent to the age in which He appears.

“These Manifestations of God have each a twofold station. One is the station of pure abstraction and essential unity. In this respect, if thou callest them all by one name, and dost ascribe to them the same attributes, thou hast not erred from the truth. Even as He hath revealed: “No distinction do We make between any of His Messengers.” For they, one and all, summon the people of the earth to acknowledge the unity of God, and herald unto them the Kawthar of an infinite grace and bounty. They are all invested with the robe of prophethood, and are honored with the mantle of glory.....

The other station is the station of distinction, and pertaineth to the world of creation, and to the limitations thereof. In this respect, each Manifestation of God hath a distinct individuality, a definitely prescribed mission, a predestined revelation, and specially designated limitations. Each one of them is known by a different name, is characterized by a special attribute, fulfils a definite mission, and is entrusted with a particular Revelation..”

Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 50-52

Trailblazer said:

If they all taught exactly the same message why would God need to send a new Messenger in every new age? I believe that the spiritual message is the same in every age and it is eternal, but every time God sends a new Messenger He comes with a new message that applies to the material world and that message is pertinent to the age in which He appears.

“These Manifestations of God have each a twofold station. One is the station of pure abstraction and essential unity. In this respect, if thou callest them all by one name, and dost ascribe to them the same attributes, thou hast not erred from the truth. Even as He hath revealed: “No distinction do We make between any of His Messengers.” For they, one and all, summon the people of the earth to acknowledge the unity of God, and herald unto them the Kawthar of an infinite grace and bounty. They are all invested with the robe of prophethood, and are honored with the mantle of glory.....

The other station is the station of distinction, and pertaineth to the world of creation, and to the limitations thereof. In this respect, each Manifestation of God hath a distinct individuality, a definitely prescribed mission, a predestined revelation, and specially designated limitations. Each one of them is known by a different name, is characterized by a special attribute, fulfils a definite mission, and is entrusted with a particular Revelation..”

Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 50-52

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I see you offer the same thing in a different frame of reference. It is most likely best to look at it in the twofold station.

The quote says they bring a new message, but at the same time there is no distinction between the Messengers, they are One Soul, One Person, the 'Self of God' .

So what I am seeing is that all the Messengers have delivered all of the Messages in the Station of Oneness.

Regards Tony

TransmutingSoul said:

Well what I saw in that statement was that his thoughts were very in tune with what a Messenger from God had offered and was also later to offer with more clarity.

So I say he was a breath of fresh air that the heads of Christianity at the time, would not have liked.

All we can know of God is the Attributes, but those attributes cannot and do not define the essence of God, they Define the essence of the Messenger, who is all we can know of God.

I feel Issac Newton may have seen the Wisdom and was another voice preparing the way for how we are to see God in this age, so here is part of his quote again.

".... The Supreme God is a Being eternal, infinite, absolutely perfect . . . and from his true dominion it follows that the true God is a living, intelligent, and powerful Being. . . . He is not eternity and infinity, but eternal and infinite; he is not duration or space, but he endures and is present".

All the attributes, but not defined by them reflects what Baha'u'llah has offered.

Regards Tony

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Finally. Your picture is back.

TransmutingSoul said:

The quote says they bring a new message, but at the same time there is no distinction between the Messengers, they are One Soul, One Person, the 'Self of God' .

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Which statement says all of that?

Trailblazer said:

How is the Judeo-Christian source addressing all the problems we see in the today's world? How is it efficacious?

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What I was implying is that the "true source" is Jesus Christ, not necessarily his followers. The New Testament is the source of truth. And it says that mankind will devolve toward the antediluvian arrogance and universal pride that brought on the flood. We're friggin there now.

It says God promised not to destroy the world by water. But he had his fingers crossed, in a sense. He fully intends to destroy it by fire. . . Bring it on Lord Jesus. We clearly deserve it. Toast me then resurrect me. Or else resurrect me and toast this flamin world.



John

TransmutingSoul said:

The Baha'i view is all the Messengers are One, they all teach the same Message.

"The Bearers of the Trust of God are made manifest unto the peoples of the earth as the Exponents of a new Cause and the Revealers of a new Message. Inasmuch as these Birds of the celestial Throne are all sent down from the heaven of the Will of God, and as they all arise to proclaim His irresistible Faith, they, therefore, are regarded as one soul and the same person. For they all drink from the one Cup of the love of God, and all partake of the fruit of the same Tree of Oneness..... “No distinction do We make between any of His Messengers.” For they, one and all, summon the people of the earth to acknowledge the unity of God, and herald unto them the Kawthar of an infinite grace and bounty. They are all invested with the robe of prophethood, and are honored with the mantle of glory......"

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 50-56

Regards Tony

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firedragon said:

Which statement says all of that?

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The link in the attached post.

That quote really says it all, it is to me the whole picture.

Regards Tony

TransmutingSoul said:

The Baha'i view is all the Messengers are One, they all teach the same Message.

"The Bearers of the Trust of God are made manifest unto the peoples of the earth as the Exponents of a new Cause and the Revealers of a new Message. Inasmuch as these Birds of the celestial Throne are all sent down from the heaven of the Will of God, and as they all arise to proclaim His irresistible Faith, they, therefore, are regarded as one soul and the same person. For they all drink from the one Cup of the love of God, and all partake of the fruit of the same Tree of Oneness..... “No distinction do We make between any of His Messengers.” For they, one and all, summon the people of the earth to acknowledge the unity of God, and herald unto them the Kawthar of an infinite grace and bounty. They are all invested with the robe of prophethood, and are honored with the mantle of glory......"

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 50-56

Regards Tony

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Ah I missed it. Apologies.

firedragon said:

1. Do you believe that Isaac Newton was outdated in comparison to modern day theologians?
2. Why do you think so? What was Newtons theological views? Why are they outdated?
2. What did Newton say about the Old Testament?

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So far I have not said anything about modern day theologians except for acknowledging that some modern theologians hold outdated views of the Bible.

That being said I consider such theologians as acknowledge the partially-historical nature of the Bible to be more up to date with respect to that topic than those who consider the Bible to be completely historical.

In my opinion.