Porn Pastor

Shadow Wolf said:

That is your opinion.
But ultimately it was Jehovah who was crushing me.

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No, it wasn't Jehovah, it was the misguided Church that you attended that caused you to resent Christianity. Not every Christian has gone through what you have, therefore, there are billions of stable and devout Christians. Reconsider where the problem lies, and who's to blame.

Shadow Wolf said:

But you give nothing concrete. Just what you think.
And you seem to be avoiding the Seven Tenets, as well as my personal anecdotes of moral growth since leaving the Church.

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You would know nothing about satan or lucifer if it wasn't for the Bible, and the Bible elucidates them to be the most nefarious creatures on the planet. And, in some bizarre and inexplicable manner, you consider him to be and advocate of your seven tenets. I believe that you are entirely off-base SW, and again, you have an extremely naive perspective of where compassion, encouragement and love resides, and who is the author of these principles. And SW, you are behaving in a very peculiar manner, after reading some of your posts about your sexual relationships, I couldn't tell if you were a girl or boy (although you clearly look like a girl) and that you were having sex with women (assuming that you're a girl). I believe that you are playing with fire.

Sex before marriage saved my ex and myself from a lot of grief and misery. I wasn't happy, at all, trying to do the straight male thing. Going limp in the middle of sex was a very difficult time because not only was I having terrible dysphoria I had to convince my ex it was nothing with her.
And then later I found I just as awkward and dysphoric having sex with a guy. So finding this out before divorce was necessary because I couldn't even get that release and escape and it wasn't good for anyone involved.

DNB said:

No, it wasn't Jehovah, it was the misguided Church that you attended that caused you to resent Christianity. Not every Christian has gone through what you have, therefore, there are billions of stable and devout Christians. Reconsider where the problem lies, and who's to blame.

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I can assure you, turning to the Bible for guidance and reading it all was it for me. I didn't find love and mercy and guidance, I found violence, destruction, bloodshed, and threats of eternal darkness and furnaces.

DNB said:

You would know nothing about satan or lucifer if it wasn't for the Bible, and the Bible elucidates them to be the most nefarious creatures on the planet.

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I would know about Satan through the Tanakh. Except that Satan is a very different character from the Christian Satan.
Amd of course the Bible would paint Satan in a bad light. What protagonist calls the supreme antagonist a swell and fine guy?

DNB said:

And, in some bizarre and inexplicable manner, you consider him to be and advocate of your seven tenets. I believe that you are entirely off-base SW,

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Jehovah is very strict and very much into rules. Satan is freedom and liberation - the opposite of Jehovah.

DNB said:

SW, and again, you have an extremely naive perspective of where compassion, encouragement and love resides, and who is the author of these principles.

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It is impossible for it to be Jehovah. If Jehovah were the author of these the rebellious child would be loved as the submissive child, rather than killed.

DNB said:

And SW, you are behaving in a very peculiar manner, after reading some of your posts about your sexual relationships, I couldn't tell if you were a girl or boy (although you clearly look like a girl) and that you were having sex with women (assuming that you're a girl). I believe that you are playing with fire.

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I am trans. I was physically born a boy, but that wasn't working for me at any level, including sexually (I've had sex with both men and women). So I moved to California and started transitioning to female. Things have been getting better for me.

Subduction Zone said:

There can be child abuse in any church of any religion. It seems to be all too common in some of the weird offshoots. But the Catholic Church is the only one that I know of where the abusers were protected by the Church. They had a history of keeping such abuses quiet. Moving a priest if necessary to a new diocese without warning people what they were getting. As a result some priests had a long history and many victims at various locations. Most other churches would fire such pastors. Often there would be an attempt to cover it up, but at least the cause of the problem would be gone.

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It's been found in others.
Mormon abuse cases - Wikipedia
Sexual abuse cases in Southern Baptist churches - Wikipedia
Jehovah's Witnesses' handling of child sex abuse - Wikipedia
Methodist Church apologises for abuse spanning decades

Shadow Wolf said:

I can assure you, turning to the Bible for guidance and reading it all was it for me. I didn't find love and mercy and guidance, I found violence, destruction, bloodshed, and threats of eternal darkness and furnaces.

I would know about Satan through the Tanakh. Except that Satan is a very different character from the Christian Satan.
Amd of course the Bible would paint Satan in a bad light. What protagonist calls the supreme antagonist a swell and fine guy?

Jehovah is very strict and very much into rules. Satan is freedom and liberation - the opposite of Jehovah.

It is impossible for it to be Jehovah. If Jehovah were the author of these the rebellious child would be loved as the submissive child, rather than killed.

I am trans. I was physically born a boy, but that wasn't working for me at any level, including sexually (I've had sex with both men and women). So I moved to California and started transitioning to female. Things have been getting better for me.

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Alright SW. I've said my piece. I don't believe that you're comprehending correctly how God is being conveyed in either Testament of the Bible. Men were continuously defying and rebelling against God in every manner possible. They created idols in brazen contempt for Him, sacrificed their children, committed lewd and disgraceful acts with one another, and God gave them ample time and warnings to change their ways. Never once did God strike first, it was always in retaliation to someone egregiously transgressing His righteous laws, and again, more often than not, after they have gotten away with it for so long, and after countless prophets and judges warned them.

DNB said:

Alright SW. I've said my piece. I don't believe that you're comprehending correctly how God is being conveyed in either Testament of the Bible. Men were continuously defying and rebelling against God in every manner possible. They created idols in brazen contempt for Him, sacrificed their children, committed lewd and disgraceful acts with one another, and God gave them ample time and warnings to change their ways. Never once did God strike first, it was always in retaliation to someone egregiously transgressing His righteous laws, and again, more often than not, after they have gotten away with it for so long, and after countless prophets and judges warned them.

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I don't believe you're considering all I have to say.
Like a god who's book tells me I cannot be me or I'll face eternal damnation. Trying to make myself attracted to women, praying to help me with my gender issues. But there was nothing but misery.
And you'd rather insist I'm very wrong and misguided and "playing with fire" than consider I might just be happy amd have no desires to go back.
These judgements have not been mutually exchanged. None of the judgements lobbed at the porn pastor or participants in this thread have been mutual. It's been Christians--who are told "judge not"--who have been passing around judgements.

Shadow Wolf said:

I don't believe you're considering all I have to say.
Like a god who's book tells me I cannot be me or I'll face eternal damnation. Trying to make myself attracted to women, praying to help me with my gender issues. But there was nothing but misery.
And you'd rather insist I'm very wrong and misguided and "playing with fire" than consider I might just be happy amd have no desires to go back.
These judgements have not been mutually exchanged. None of the judgements lobbed at the porn pastor or participants in this thread have been mutual. It's been Christians--who are told "judge not"--who have been passing around judgements.

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Well, this is the first time that I've been aware that your issues with God were due to your gender conflict. First of all, Christ is for sinners, if you've read my posts enough you'll appreciate the rather deprecating view that I have of myself, before God. In short, I'm think that I'm scum in His eyes, and let's just leave it at that. But I am also fully aware where mercy and grace lie - His laws condemn me, but His grace absolves me. Do you see me shaking my fist at him?

You're making your gender issue the end all and be all of happiness, it's not, nor even close. Do you think that all of my desires have been fulfilled, or that I'm entirely content in my own skin? I like women in a lustful way, God condemns that, do you see me challenging His judgements - I know that He's right.

In heaven your worries down here will appear as ridiculous and shameful, and you're using them to accuse God and in turn have pledged your allegiance to satan.
I'm not the offensive one....

DNB said:

You're making your gender issue the end all and be all of happiness,

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I'm actually not, but it is a big part if it. Like feeling authentic in doing things, doing things I enjoy doing compared to doing things I am compelled to do and just going through the motions of what is expected. My life was empty and hollow, and that wasn't my only problems growing up. I was bullied at school, abused at home, tormented at Church with threats and promises of eternal damnation for deviating from Jehovah's will and law, life long pains and troubles with my knees, betrayed by friends, very lonely, and no end to the torments in sight, not even a glimmer of hope for a better tomorrow. It left me praying for death.

DNB said:

if you've read my posts enough you'll appreciate the rather deprecating view that I have of myself, before God. In short, I'm think that I'm scum in His eyes,

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I don't appreciate such a view. Even after I left the Church, for many years I considered myself not a good person, labeled myself with my faults, and had a self-devaluing view of myself. I thought there was nothing wrong with that. But I recently noticed I haven't done that in awhile. And it was a wonderful realization. I'm tired and exhausted from hating myself. I don't want that anymore. I'm human, I'm not perfect, but I'm not a bad person. And I don't want to degrade and devalue myself again. I don't think my mental health could withstand falling in that rut again.

DNB said:

I'm not the offensive one....

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But you are the one passing judgements.

Shadow Wolf said:

I'm actually not, but it is a big part if it. Like feeling authentic in doing things, doing things I enjoy doing compared to doing things I am compelled to do and just going through the motions of what is expected. My life was empty and hollow, and that wasn't my only problems growing up. I was bullied at school, abused at home, tormented at Church with threats and promises of eternal damnation for deviating from Jehovah's will and law, life long pains and troubles with my knees, betrayed by friends, very lonely, and no end to the torments in sight, not even a glimmer of hope for a better tomorrow. It left me praying for death.

I don't appreciate such a view. Even after I left the Church, for many years I considered myself not a good person, labeled myself with my faults, and had a self-devaluing view of myself. I thought there was nothing wrong with that. But I recently noticed I haven't done that in awhile. And it was a wonderful realization. I'm tired and exhausted from hating myself. I don't want that anymore. I'm human, I'm not perfect, but I'm not a bad person. And I don't want to degrade and devalue myself again. I don't think my mental health could withstand falling in that rut again.

But you are the one passing judgements.

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You were too selective in citing my quotes, they were taken out of context.
God is wise and good, I am bad (BEFORE GOD, NOT MEN), God offered me a way to become good in His eyes. I will not bite the hand that feeds.

DNB said:

You were too selective in citing my quotes, they were taken out of context.
God is wise and good, I am bad (BEFORE GOD, NOT MEN), God offered me a way to become good in His eyes. I will not bite the hand that feeds.

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I didn't take anything out of context. The self-degrading thing Christians do is not something I am capable of appreciating. If all our righteousness is but filthy rags next to Jehovah, I'll move on and associate with beings who aren't putting us down.

Shadow Wolf said:

I didn't take anything out of context. The self-degrading thing Christians do is not something I am capable of appreciating. If all our righteousness is but filthy rags next to Jehovah, I'll move on and associate with beings who aren't putting us down.

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Convincing their own members that they are worthless if they do not follow the religion and will go to hell is one of the main ways that Christianity keeps members. Christianity quite often does not work at making people feel better and as result do better, the more cultic sects try to make their members feel worse.

What is amazing is that most people are pretty resilient and they will feel find no matter what they are told by others. Unfortunately some tale the poison that some sects preach to literally when it comes to themselves. They may even suicide, And then there is the other extreme. Those that take the poison spewed about others too seriously. That can end in tragedy for quite a few people.

Subduction Zone said:

Convincing their own members that they are worthless if they do not follow the religion and will go to hell is one of the main ways that Christianity keeps members. Christianity quite often does not work at making people feel better and as result do better, the more cultic sects try to make their members feel worse.

What is amazing is that most people are pretty resilient and they will feel find no matter what they are told by others. Unfortunately some tale the poison that some sects preach to literally when it comes to themselves. They may even suicide, And then there is the other extreme. Those that take the poison spewed about others too seriously. That can end in tragedy for quite a few people.

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I'm all too familiar with it all. And I am very insistent that I escaped a cult. It does have most of the red flags one.
10 Signs You’re Probably In A Cult

1. The leader is the ultimate authority
2. The group suppresses skepticism
3. The group delegitimizes former members
4. The group is paranoid about the outside world
5. The group relies on shame cycles
6. The leader is above the law
7. The group uses “thought reform” methods
8. The group is elitist
9. There is no financial transparency
10. The group performs secret rites

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They hit 8 of 10 from that source (9 and 10 being nonapplicable)
Warning Signs

1. Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.
2. No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.
3. No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget, expenses such as an independently audited financial statement.
4. Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions.
5. There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.
6. Former members often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances.
7. There are records, books, news articles, or television programs that document the abuses of the group/leader.
8. Followers feel they can never be "good enough".
9. The group/leader is always right.
10. The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing "truth" or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible

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Nine of the 10 apply here, with the financial being N/A (and I never did ask, so I don't actually know). Other sources are largely the same list. Just replace leader with Jehovah.

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1213 said:

What do you mean with the "false premise"?

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Thanks for your question.
I was traveling for almost two weeks, and just returned.
So, a bit slow in responding, very sorry.

I stated false premises, but I believe there was one very specific and major “false premise”, that has guided Christianity into a very dark place.
But, it is nothing to be distressed about. It was all foreseen by the Lord.
It has been written about. The end “times” of Revelation have nothing to do with the end of our material world. It is the end of Christianity as we have known it for two millennia. Christianity is a dying religion. No amount of violent struggle will stop it. No amount of evangelism, or church planting will stop it.
It was foreseen. A new church, as stated in Revelation 21, is already “coming down from heaven”. It is truly a glorious sight.

But, what is the false premise? Or, as the Lord says in Matthew 7:
24 “Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock. 26 And everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand.27 And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell, and great was the fall of it.
What is the “sand”, that Christianity was built upon?
It was a completely false construct of the Lord. Once a false image of our Lord is planted within a person’s mind, the true image is very hard to see.
And one cannot come to the Lord, if one is blinded to his essence.
The false premise is the trinity.

Remember, this is my understanding, and mine only. One needs to find the truth from the Lord, and the Lord ONLY. He is the only source of truth.

Not me. Not a religious leader. Not a religion constructed of “doctrines of man”.

The words from the Lord:
“Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock.”

Jeremiah Ames said:

...
The false premise is the trinity....

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Ok, thanks for the explanation. Trinity is not Biblical doctrine, therefore I can accept it being false premise.

Shadow Wolf said:

I didn't take anything out of context. The self-degrading thing Christians do is not something I am capable of appreciating. If all our righteousness is but filthy rags next to Jehovah, I'll move on and associate with beings who aren't putting us down.

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It's not such much about hating oneself, as opposed to revering God.
Get it?
As much as a truly intelligent person will only speak of his ignorance, a wise and sincere person who is authentically attempting to be decent and just, will only speak of how much that he has to learn and improve upon.
It's not self-deprecating, it's profoundly recognizing where you stand with your Maker, and how holy that He is. ...I said holy, not wrathful and vindictive, His mercy surpasses our expectations.

But, you need to start getting serious SW, He only is to be feared by those who have contempt for him, and not those who sin. Your views are adolescent and have no depth, God's mercy is much greater than His perdition. And, again, one has to be extremely defiant and contemptuous in order to elicit His vengeance.

DNB said:

It's not such much about hating oneself, as opposed to revering God.
Get it?

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Of course. I still retain the understandings of the Bible I had then, as I was truly very deeply ingrained with it. I volunteered for and attended everything I could at Church, I was spreading the Word, and refraining from sin as best I could. At church I was considered the ideal teenaged Christian and being brought up to be the next youth pastor. It's still so deeply in me that when I read Sam Harris it's very clear to me he has a purely academic understanding of Christianity.
And what you've said here we had similar beliefs.
I now see things very differently.

DNB said:

As much as a truly intelligent person will only speak of his ignorance, a wise and sincere person who is authentically attempting to be decent and just, will only speak of how much that he has to learn and improve upon.
It's not self-deprecating,

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If that's all you acknowledge it is. Any properly thinking person knows there is always more to learn than will ever be known. But we also have achievements to celebrate, great things we have learned, and thousands of years of moral ponderings, considerations, thoughts, and even improvements since they days of the bitter waters and widows going to a brother in law. We've been to the moon, have gazed upon the other planets of this solar system, and looked upon a vast cosmos spanning for at least billions of years. We have many means of communication (including instant global communication), painted and sculpted great pieces of art, have composed great works of music, and used spoken and written word to sing and write epics known across ages.
To not embrace our achievements and accomplishments is self degrading if all we focus on are shared limitations that just come with being human.

DNB said:

recognizing where you stand with your Maker, and how holy that He is. ...I said holy, not wrathful and vindictive, His mercy surpasses our expectations.

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All the people Jehovah kills in the Bible is because of wrath and spite. He himself says he is angry and jealous. And it shows very much.
My expectations are that we be judged by the standards of being human, not some deity who claims perfection despite making a very imperfect world and universe.

DNB said:

But, you need to start getting serious SW, He only is to be feared by those who have contempt for him, and not those who sin.

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Then I must not sin, as I do not fear Jehovah.

DNB said:

Your views are adolescent and have no depth, God's mercy is much greater than His perdition. And, again, one has to be extremely defiant and contemptuous in order to elicit His vengeance.

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"Adolescent." "No depth." Can you please remain civil? Low blows are rather naughty.
I am defiant. I do at times clash against authority. I loathe and detest tyrants and totalitarians. Jehovah is a dictator. I now firmly stand against that, and have embraced the freedoms that allow humans amd society to thrive and flourish, entirely free of the guilt and criminal element of victimless crimes (which is a great deal of what Jehovah has labeled as sin).
It is better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven. And if it's real in the end I'd rather go to Hell.

Shadow Wolf said:

It is better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven. And if it's real in the end I'd rather go to Hell.

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very foolish. Again, you're behaving impetuously and immature. His wrath was upon the wicked and defiant, and that is clearly and emphatically stated. You're whining over something that's not there, or cannot be substantiated. Never did God punish anyone without due cause, and it was only His mercy that was gratuitous, generous and unjustified.

DNB said:

very foolish. Again, you're behaving impetuously and immature. His wrath was upon the wicked and defiant, and that is clearly and emphatically stated. You're whining over something that's not there, or cannot be substantiated. Never did God punish anyone without due cause, and it was only His mercy that was gratuitous, generous and unjustified.

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But yet he created all this stuff that even makes it possible to claim he has mercy, is the one who decided we deserve punishment in order to say he is gratuitous, and it was his design to send Jesus to be brutally tortured to death in order to show he has mercy and love. He created a mess and says he's being generous and merciful to cover for his bad decisions. He decided to put a tree of forbidden fruit in the garden, he decided to make it forbidden, and he decided to punish for disobedience and curse the world with sin.
Anyone with a dog knows you don't leave a steak on the floor unattended with the dog in the room. It's not the dog's fault it was eaten. It is the fault of the one who created such a doomed to fail situation.
Mercy is love. Love is not violence, pain, fear and threats. Love is understanding, empathy, patients, and gentleness. Jehovah makes us human and then wants to punish us for it over a situation that is entirely his own doing. Love is not a rod of discipline, it is hugs to assure hatred isn't involved.

Shadow Wolf said:

But yet he created all this stuff that even makes it possible to claim he has mercy, is the one who decided we deserve punishment in order to say he is gratuitous, and it was his design to send Jesus to be brutally tortured to death in order to show he has mercy and love. He created a mess and says he's being generous and merciful to cover for his bad decisions. He decided to put a tree of forbidden fruit in the garden, he decided to make it forbidden, and he decided to punish for disobedience and curse the world with sin.
Anyone with a dog knows you don't leave a steak on the floor unattended with the dog in the room. It's not the dog's fault it was eaten. It is the fault of the one who created such a doomed to fail situation.
Mercy is love. Love is not violence, pain, fear and threats. Love is understanding, empathy, patients, and gentleness. Jehovah makes us human and then wants to punish us for it over a situation that is entirely his own doing. Love is not a rod of discipline, it is hugs to assure hatred isn't involved.

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The entire Bible, every single story, action, punishment, mercy, wrath and grace, all went completely over your head. Your understanding is shallow.

DNB said:

very foolish. Again, you're behaving impetuously and immature. His wrath was upon the wicked and defiant, and that is clearly and emphatically stated. You're whining over something that's not there, or cannot be substantiated. Never did God punish anyone without due cause, and it was only His mercy that was gratuitous, generous and unjustified.

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Here's another. Treat others as you wish to be treated. That's really not good advice. Such as, for me, if I worked at a grocery store and the weather is nice I would want people to leave shopping carts scattered everywhere to increase my time outside. But that is rude, and it can create a hazard. So I don't do how I would want to be done to because what I want is actually improper and can lead to property damage.
Hugs are another thing. A lot of people actually don't like being hugged, but a lot of people have a habit of just going in for a hug even if they don't known someone. They are thinking "how do I want to be treated?" It is a friendly gesture, but it makes many uncomfortable. Thus, once again "do unto other as you'd have them do unto you" is inappropriate and considerations should be made to avoid making other people uncomfortable.
Really, the only solution is a moral code that begins with empathy and considering how others want to be treated. We actually won't know in many cases, but that's ok. A simple pause or question can just as well establish connections without risking undue discomfort to another.
This is the First Tenet of the Satanic Temple.
One should strive to act with compassion and empathy toward all creatures in accordance with reason.
Compare this to:
In everything, do to others what you would have them do to you.
Satan advocates we do to others acts of compassion and empathy towards all creatures. Jesus advocates doing how you want to be treated.
Proper morality cannot begin with what "I" want. Even with personal sovereignty, we mustn't infringe on the sovereignty and rights of another without a very good reason to do so (such as prohibitions against murder, theft, drunk driving, and rape). What I want, even when it appears innocent and friendly is often to conflict with the wants of another. That's just the nature of being human and existing in a finite world.
The Sixth Tenet is another point of interest.
People are fallible. If one makes a mistake, one should do one's best to rectify it and resolve any harm that might have been caused.
People are fallible. We make mistakes. We rectify, resolve, and learn from them. This is Satan.
Jehovah is eternal separation and damnation. A punishment that he himself is the architect who constructed it.

DNB said:

The entire Bible, every single story, action, punishment, mercy, wrath and grace, all went completely over your head. Your understanding is shallow.

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You keep making such claims, but you never demonstrate how. I certainly haven't laid such unfriendliness at your feet. This isn't a bar fight.