ecco
Veteran Member
Sounds like a plan to me.
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Covid-19 death toll equals and will likely exceed the 1918-1919 flu pandemic
- Thread starter shunyadragon
- Start date
Sounds like a plan to me.
We Never Know
No Slack
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Wearing a mask lowers the rate of spread of the disease, but probably not enough on its own. If people are unvaccinated they still need to avoid massive gatherings.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Which makes the vaccine crappy. Not effective in spite of claims to the contrary.
Remove any masking requirements for vaccinated and I'm sure it will improve the vaccine rate.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
No, the vaccine works like most vaccines. What is "crappy" is the expectations of those with no education in the matter. Vaccines are never100% effective. What they do is greatly reduce the R factor of the virus among the vaccinated so that it eventually dies out. We simply have not had to deal with a major pandemic along with its vaccine in our lifetimes.
Comparing the effectiveness of COVID-19 vaccines to flu vaccines is very difficult, because of the very different technology, virus behavior in the population, and the lack of good comparable research between the performance of the vaccines.The new technology and approach to producing vaccines may be the advantage. These technologies may make flu vaccines better in the future.
[cite=[URL='https://www.healthline.com/health-news/think-the-covid-19-vaccine-isnt-good-enough-it-may-be-more-effective-than-the-flu-shot#How-effective-the-shots-are-at-preventing-disease']Here's How the COVID-19 Vaccines Stack Up Against the Flu Vaccine[/URL]].
How effective the shots are at preventing disease
The flu shots’ effectiveness fluctuates every year depending on how precisely the shots match the circulating strains, but health experts estimate it ranges from 40 to 60 percent, depending on the season.
Tan says researchers don’t conduct clinical trials on the flu shots anymore, so any recent evidence on the flu shot’s efficacy comes from looking at flu activity trends in the population.
That data suggests that “influenza vaccine not only prevents 40 to 60 against primary disease, but it’s also around that same level in terms of preventing hospitalization and severe illness in both kids and adults,” Tan said.
A study published in Pediatrics in 2017 found that the flu vaccine cuts the risk of death in healthy children by about two-thirds, or 65 percent.
And according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC)Trusted Source, a person hospitalized with influenza is 2 to 5 timesTrusted Source more likely to die if they’re unvaccinated.
Even when the flu vaccine isn’t a strong match against the circulating strains, it still confers some degree of protection.
“The greatest benefit is probably reducing the likelihood of someone getting severe influenza, reducing duration of flu symptoms, and limiting spread to others,” said Dr. David Hirschwerk, an attending infectious diseases physician at Northwell Health in Manhasset, New York.The coronavirus vaccines range from about 66 to 95 percent effective at preventing symptomatic disease. All of the vaccines appear to be 100 percent effective at protecting people against hospitalization and death.
“The COVID vaccines, so far, have turned out to be more effective than the flu vaccine, not only in actually preventing COVID but notably in limiting cases of severe COVID,” Hirschwerk said.
Emerging evidence suggests efficacy may wane against certain variants. “We already know that the variant from the UK is a bit less responsive to the vaccine, but it remains very likely that severe COVID can still be mitigated by the current vaccines and even if not perfect, that would remain a substantial victory for public health,” Hirschwerk said.
Many of the vaccine developers are already working on booster shots that specifically target emerging variants. The ease with which the shots can be modified is one of the key benefits of the new technologies used in the COVID-19 vaccines.
Modifying vaccines is much harder with the traditional technologies used. “It’s very hard to react and make changes to variations. We struggle with it every year with flu,” Tan said.
What about preventing transmission?
According to Tan, scientists evaluate a vaccine’s ability to prevent transmission by looking at the amount of virus in people who’ve been vaccinated.
“The general feeling with flu vaccine is that it does prevent transmission,” Tan said.
That said, even though it’s thought the flu shot can significantly reduce disease transmission, vaccinated people can still contact influenza and spread it to others. There’s limited data looking at the new coronavirus vaccines’ ability to reduce transmission of COVID-19. One small study from AstraZeneca suggests it may cut the spread by up to 67 percent.
When looking at these vaccines’ ability to curb disease transmission, it’s important to understand that the flu and new coronavirus have different attack rates, Tan says.
COVID-19 has very high attack rates. There are a lot of people who are susceptible because there’s little natural immunity in the population. Also, there’s no widespread vaccination against COVID-19, and there are no antivirals.
With flu, we can reduce transmission with vaccination because there’s a lot of pre-existing immunity in the population. We also have effective influenza antivirals that can lessen the severity of illness, Tan says.
“A lot of people have been exposed to actual flu in the past or have been multiply vaccinated, and every time we vaccinate, we boost [immunity],” he said.
The attack rate of flu compared to COVID-19 is much lower. “The bar is very different,” Tan said.
Could the COVID-19 vaccines change how we vaccinate for the flu?
Tan thinks the vaccination advancements we’ve made during the pandemic will be used to create new vaccines against many other conditions.
The technology could help make existing vaccines, like the flu shot, even better.
“I’m really optimistic that we’re going to see some genuine improvements in flu vaccine as a result of our COVID-19 technology,” Tan said.
The bottom line
Though the coronavirus vaccines and flu shots use distinctly different technologies against two unique viruses, they still, on a basic level, have the same job of teaching our immune system how to recognize and attack a virus. Both sets of shots trigger side effects that include fatigue, chills, and in some cases, a low grade fever. The COVID-19 shots appear to be even more effective at preventing severe disease, along with hospitalization and death. Health experts suspect the vaccine technologies developed during the pandemic will be used to improve existing vaccines such as the flu shot. [/cite]
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I suggest Republican politicians being united in advocating for vaccination would do the trick. They have been very influential in spreading doubt and disinformation about vaccination.
Even your post here suggests you've been influenced by right wing disinformation. When I see this it illustrates how this disinformation gets spread with the help of ordinary people. It's a conspiracy of ignorance.
Fortunately the massive death rates of the unvaccinated seems to be cutting through the right wing rhetoric and the fear isn't Bill Gates tracking people or some negligable side effects, but hospitalization. Massive medical bills. Death.
Breakthrough infections: get vaccinated and wear a mask in crowded locations.
both
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
I would say, and this is a very uneducated opinion, that the Corona virus vaccines appear to be better than the flu vaccines as far as how well that they work. The flu vaccine can have a much lower rate of effectiveness:
A 2012 meta-analysis found that flu vaccination was effective 67 percent of the time; the populations that benefited the most were HIV-positive adults aged 18 to 55 (76 percent), healthy adults aged 18 to 46 (approximately 70 percent), and healthy children aged six months to 24 months (66 percent).[48] The influenza vaccine also appear to protect against myocardial infarction with a benefit of 15 to 45%.[49]
Influenza vaccine - Wikipedia
And yet people have no problem taking the flu vaccine. There are almost no myths about it. They are required in certain jobs dealing with other people already. The numbers that I have seen, and this is with the Delta variant that does sometimes get around the vaccine, is that one is 7 times more likely to get the virus if one is unvaccinated. And if one does get it the odds of serious consequences takes another huge dive. As a result even now with 25% of the population unvaccinated the vast majority of deaths are from unvaccinated people.
So we have a more serious disease. And a vaccine that works even better than the flu shot, and people still refuse to take it. Excuse me while I scream.
I would not rely on politicians of either party to provide accurate information on the pandemic. Scientific references please. The problem is most aggredous among conservatives with many denying the pandemic and anti-vaxers.
Some of your previous posts were misleading and contained misinformation.
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ecco
Veteran Member
That is the overly simplistic "solution" from someone who is not an expert in the field.
As such, it should be flagged as misinformation.
ecco
Veteran Member
More COVID misinformation The vaccines have proven to be as effective in actual practice as in the tests. Ninety four per cent is not "crappy".
Nonsense. In Florida, except in hospitals and medical facilities, there are mandates that prohibit making people wear masks. Florida has one of the highest rates of infections. The number of people staying unvaccinated hasn't changed much at all.
Your simplisticisms are without merit.
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Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
No. Because a fair number of board certified medical professionals have said the same things.
Their degrees and credentials are no more or less valid than any other out there.
Misinformation does not mean you have to label it as such strictly on a sole basis that you don't like what you are hearing/reading.
ecco
Veteran Member
It's a conspiracy of WILFUL ignorance.
The more unvaccinated people die, the less unvaccinated people there are. We may get herd immunity despite the anti-vax conspirators.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Sounds like a crappy vaccine to me if it dosent really change anything that much overall.
I suppose it's better than nothing.
ecco
Veteran Member
I watched the first video. What did he say that was disinformation? Be specific.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Biden said he will not make it mandatory.
Well?
What's he doing now?
Making mandates.
He lied.