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They are both the same person!

Rival

Si m'ait Dieus
Staff member
Premium Member
I’ll concede to this point…

Jaki rahi bhavana jaisi, prabhu murat dekhi tin taisi.

“In whatever way one chooses to perceive the Lord, in that very way the Lord appears to that person”.

:)

main-qimg-5a79881bc03448f84656c27d1df779d9
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
They have previous depictions to go on
No, they don't. The imagine him out of whole cloth. Did you know I can think of one picture of Jesus where he not only didn't have a beard, but he sported a roman haircut and wore a toga.
 

Eddi

Agnostic
Premium Member
No, they don't. The imagine him out of whole cloth. Did you know I can think of one picture of Jesus where he not only didn't have a beard, but he sported a roman haircut and wore a toga.
Within Christianity there is an on-going visual tradition within which Jesus (and God) are portrayed in certain ways - as in the pics in my OP

I would suggest that the image you speak of exists in some other tradition, or is in no tradition at all

I think that this on-going visual tradition makes sense: Jesus probably did have a beard and portraying God The Father as an old man also makes sense

I believe this on-going visual tradition it is still alive today, very much so

I believe that this visual tradition is very much alive in our current age

I imagine that with regards to Jesus, the tradition began by the artists imagining what a 1st century Jewish prophet would have looked like - and I think that such a person probably would have had a beard, that would be a reasonable assumption for them to make
 

robocop (actually)

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I have a theory...

So, this is how Jesus is often portrayed:

View attachment 55379

And this is how God "The Father" is often portrayed:

View attachment 55383

Both have long, straight hair

And both have beards

Here is my theory:

They are both the same person!

Only one is of the same person when he was young, and the other is the same person when he was elderly

When God manifested himself on Earth he did so as Jesus

Right now, Jesus is up in Heaven, but his appearance has aged (from the first pic to the second) so as to give him greater seniority and gravitas and to reflect the passage of time that has occurred since he walked the Earth

So... when people purport to have seen God when they see an old man in the sky they have in fact seen Jesus, who is the primary means through which God interacts with humankind, alongside the Holy Spirit

I don't think God "The Father" looks like anything and that neither does the Holy Spirit

So whenever people draw or paint God it is necessarily Jesus in particular that they actually draw/paint

Only sometimes he is depicted as he was when he walked the Earth and at other times he is depicted as he is right now, up in Heaven (although people mistake mature Jesus with God The Father - they think they are drawing God The Father but are in fact drawing mature Jesus)

I believe that when Jesus returns he will do so as an old man, not massively geriatric, but perhaps in his late 60s or early 70s

Basically, when he returns I believe he will look like how people imagine God "The Father" rather than looking like he is normally depicted. And that people have unknowingly been depicting God as an old man to prepare the people of Earth for the return of Jesus, in which Jesus will return as an old man

When he comes a second time, when people look at him they will see an avuncular and fatherly figure, which is I believe how God wants to present himself to humankind

He will look like he is normally portrayed, only aged about 30 or 40 years!

Edit: I know that those are not actual pictures of God and Jesus.

But I believe that God is sensitive to the beliefs of humans

So that when presenting himself to us he does so in our terms, based on what we expect and imagine about him

So my theory is that when Jesus comes down he will be older than when he first walked the Earth and will look like how people imagine God, so that people think of him more as being God than being Jesus
You know that in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Joseph Smith claimed to see them both as separate but same-looking personages right?
 

Oberon12

Member
There is some question as to Abraham's origins, and in any case I find the need to claim 'Jesus wasn't white' to be a racist fantasy in itself; the fact is given the geographical locations involved and the movements of entire tribes he could look like anybody, including a 'white' looking Caucasian. Nobody questions why upper caste Indians are pretty 'white' compared to most Hindu peoples, for instance. Is that 'racism' or is it just acknowledging an historical fact? Even In ancient Sumeria Jews and semites were considered 'westerners'.

Abraham's Ur

Ur of the Chaldees: Abraham’s original home

If one went by linguistic archeology, it's clear a lot of languages and cultures originated farther north of the ME.

I personally don't think it possible to resolve the issue, since it is unimportant, except to racists.
 
Last edited:

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
Nobody questions why upper caste Indians are pretty 'white' compared to most Hindu peoples, for instance. Is that 'racism' or is just an historical fact?

Absolute fallacy propagated by western “indologists”. Krishna, Rāma, the Pandavas, are depicted as being dark-skinned Kshatriya.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
I have a theory...

So, this is how Jesus is often portrayed:

View attachment 55379

And this is how God "The Father" is often portrayed:

View attachment 55383

Both have long, straight hair

And both have beards

Here is my theory:

They are both the same person!

Only one is of the same person when he was young, and the other is the same person when he was elderly

When God manifested himself on Earth he did so as Jesus

Right now, Jesus is up in Heaven, but his appearance has aged (from the first pic to the second) so as to give him greater seniority and gravitas and to reflect the passage of time that has occurred since he walked the Earth

So... when people purport to have seen God when they see an old man in the sky they have in fact seen Jesus, who is the primary means through which God interacts with humankind, alongside the Holy Spirit

I don't think God "The Father" looks like anything and that neither does the Holy Spirit

So whenever people draw or paint God it is necessarily Jesus in particular that they actually draw/paint

Only sometimes he is depicted as he was when he walked the Earth and at other times he is depicted as he is right now, up in Heaven (although people mistake mature Jesus with God The Father - they think they are drawing God The Father but are in fact drawing mature Jesus)

I believe that when Jesus returns he will do so as an old man, not massively geriatric, but perhaps in his late 60s or early 70s

Basically, when he returns I believe he will look like how people imagine God "The Father" rather than looking like he is normally depicted. And that people have unknowingly been depicting God as an old man to prepare the people of Earth for the return of Jesus, in which Jesus will return as an old man

When he comes a second time, when people look at him they will see an avuncular and fatherly figure, which is I believe how God wants to present himself to humankind

He will look like he is normally portrayed, only aged about 30 or 40 years!

Edit: I know that those are not actual pictures of God and Jesus.

But I believe that God is sensitive to the beliefs of humans

So that when presenting himself to us he does so in our terms, based on what we expect and imagine about him

So my theory is that when Jesus comes down he will be older than when he first walked the Earth and will look like how people imagine God, so that people think of him more as being God than being Jesus

When you say "our", I guess the geographical area ruled by caucasian looking people who thought God looks like them, and those they invaded at some point. The "others" are not in your group so this God idea you have seems to represent a particular profile only.
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
Too bad there is more to it than your opinions or wishes.

Proof? Maybe like knowledge and familiarity of Hindus and Hinduism as a practicing Hindu with a good number of Indian and Hindu friends and acquaintances?
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Both have long, straight hair

And both have beards

Here is my theory:

They are both the same person!

My theory, is that this is obviously Arlo Guthrie

upload_2021-9-21_16-14-55.png


I believe that when Jesus returns he will do so as an old man, not massively geriatric, but perhaps in his late 60s or early 70s

Seems quite a nice fit for the theory that Arlo Guthrie is in fact god.

When he comes a second time, when people look at him they will see an avuncular and fatherly figure,

Yep. Sounds more and more like Arlo Guthrie.

So my theory is that when Jesus comes down he will be older than when he first walked the Earth and will look like how people imagine God, so that people think of him more as being God than being Jesus

All Hail Arlo Guthrie!

 

cataway

Well-Known Member
I have a theory...

So, this is how Jesus is often portrayed:

View attachment 55379

And this is how God "The Father" is often portrayed:

View attachment 55383

Both have long, straight hair

And both have beards

Here is my theory:

They are both the same person!

Only one is of the same person when he was young, and the other is the same person when he was elderly

When God manifested himself on Earth he did so as Jesus

Right now, Jesus is up in Heaven, but his appearance has aged (from the first pic to the second) so as to give him greater seniority and gravitas and to reflect the passage of time that has occurred since he walked the Earth

So... when people purport to have seen God when they see an old man in the sky they have in fact seen Jesus, who is the primary means through which God interacts with humankind, alongside the Holy Spirit

I don't think God "The Father" looks like anything and that neither does the Holy Spirit

So whenever people draw or paint God it is necessarily Jesus in particular that they actually draw/paint

Only sometimes he is depicted as he was when he walked the Earth and at other times he is depicted as he is right now, up in Heaven (although people mistake mature Jesus with God The Father - they think they are drawing God The Father but are in fact drawing mature Jesus)

I believe that when Jesus returns he will do so as an old man, not massively geriatric, but perhaps in his late 60s or early 70s

Basically, when he returns I believe he will look like how people imagine God "The Father" rather than looking like he is normally depicted. And that people have unknowingly been depicting God as an old man to prepare the people of Earth for the return of Jesus, in which Jesus will return as an old man

When he comes a second time, when people look at him they will see an avuncular and fatherly figure, which is I believe how God wants to present himself to humankind

He will look like he is normally portrayed, only aged about 30 or 40 years!

Edit: I know that those are not actual pictures of God and Jesus.

But I believe that God is sensitive to the beliefs of humans

So that when presenting himself to us he does so in our terms, based on what we expect and imagine about him

So my theory is that when Jesus comes down he will be older than when he first walked the Earth and will look like how people imagine God, so that people think of him more as being God than being Jesus
such a God is guilty of deception
 

Oberon12

Member
Not quite.

From Wikipedia:

Ah, so there were blue people, too? Apparently so, if one didn't think colors had other significance in paintings and were actual colors of people then.

radhakrishna.jpg


The Historical Origin of Lord Krishna, the Incarnation of Vishnu

Is that a white person in there, too? How is that possible? Are all the cows in India white, too? Krishna seems to come along long after the Brahman class was first around. The painting clearly indicates they had the colors for different shades of brown, so that can't be an issue.
 
Last edited:

JustGeorge

Not As Much Fun As I Look
Staff member
Premium Member
Ah, so there were blue people, too? Apparently so, if one didn't think colors had other significance in paintings and were actual colors of people then.

radhakrishna.jpg


The Historical Origin of Lord Krishna, the Incarnation of Vishnu

Is that a white person in there, too? How is that possible? Are all the cows in India white, too?

Perhaps. It seems more likely that Krishna was simply dark, however. Radha is said to have had a fair complexion. She wouldn't have been 'white' as the way its currently referred to, however.

I'm unsure on the cows. I can tell you where I'm from, almost all the cows are black. It doesn't seem unreasonable that all the cows in a specific area would be white. Perhaps someone in that region of India can answer this for you.
 

Oberon12

Member
Perhaps. It seems more likely that Krishna was simply dark, however. Radha is said to have had a fair complexion. She wouldn't have been 'white' as the way its currently referred to, however.

I'm unsure on the cows. I can tell you where I'm from, almost all the cows are black. It doesn't seem unreasonable that all the cows in a specific area would be white. Perhaps someone in that region of India can answer this for you.

Well, most histories seem to agree on invaders from the far north came in and set themselves up as a ruling class, and later rulers claim to be their descendants. If many became darker over a couple of thousand years that would be possible, of course, but they would probably still be paler than the average equatorial tribal types in a lot of cases.
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
Ah, so there were blue people, too? Apparently so, if one didn't think colors had other significance in paintings and were actual colors of people then.

Ah, so then your understanding of Hindu iconography and Sanskrit is sorely lacking. Blue and green were used to depict beings and persons of dark complexion. You can find depictions of Krishna, especially in Gaudiya Vaishnavism and ISKCON in which He is literally black. The name Krishna is actually an adjective that has two meanings... 1. dark; 2. attractive. Another name for Him, among many others is Śyamaḥ (Shyama) also meaning dark.

Radhe Krishna Radhe Krishna
Krishna Krishna Radhe Radhe
Radhe Shyama Radhe Shyama
Shyama Shyama Radhe Radhe

Another version of the Mahamantra.(Hare Krishna Hare Krishna ... Hare Rama Hare Rama...)

As I said, Krishna and Rama were Kshatriya and of dark complexion. Radha and Sita, the consorts of Krishna and Rama, respectively, were light complexion but also Kshatriya.

is


is


Stop reading Wendy Doniger.
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
Well, most histories seem to agree on invaders from the far north came in and set themselves up as a ruling class, and later rulers claim to be their descendants. If many became darker over a couple of thousand years that would be possible, of course, but they would probably still be paler than the average equatorial tribal types in a lot of cases.

Those "most histories" have been turned on their heads. Genetic tests have shown that there has been no major influx of genetics into the Indian subcontinent from outside" for 100,000 years. Minor, yes. There are persons who share DNA with others from the rest of Asia and western Europe. People have been moving around for 250,000 years.

Stop reading Wendy Doniger.
 
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