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Varṇa and 'Converts'

mangalavara

सो ऽहम्
Premium Member
Namaste, everyone. First, allow me to explain that I put quotation marks around the word converts because I am aware that many Hindus do not like the words convert and conversion apparently due to the association of those words with religions that include proselytization as a practice. Personally, I like to say that I adopted Hinduism and thus I am an adopter rather than a 'convert.'

So far, it has been six months since I have counted myself a Hindu. By now, I am aware that there is a distinction made between jāti and varṇa. With respect to varṇa, I have heard two explanations of it. The first explanation is that one's varṇa is a matter of one's disposition and past karmas, and Bhagavad Gītā 18.41-44 supposedly supports this view. The other explanation is that one's varṇa is a matter of one's occupation, which means one is a vaiśya if one runs a business, but one becomes a kṣatriya if one sells the business and becomes a soldier.

I suspect that the ancients understood varṇa was by birth rather than personal assessment or mere choice in occupation. Śrī Rāmānujā, for instance, explains in his commentary on Bhagavad Gītā 18.41 that past karma determines whether one is born a brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, or śūdra, and that the dominant guṇa of a varṇa is the result of the past karma of the individual and the inherent nature of his or her varṇa. Also, if the Upanayana ceremony was performed for children at very young ages, how would anybody know if a boy was meant to follow the dharma of the brāhmaṇa varṇa, for example, unless he was born into that varṇa? When I was a child, I was not the scholarly type and I had no interest in working in the education industry. As an adult, I am the scholarly type and I am in the education industry. Nobody suspected that I would turn out to be this kind of person.

Something I realize as an adopter of Hinduism is that varṇa is irrelevant in my case. It is irrelevant in my case because I was not born to parents of a varṇa in a civilization where varṇa is important. I am a foreigner in relation to any such civilization. How should this shape my practice as a Hindu? If you are a fellow adopter of Hinduism, did you undergo an upanayana ceremony? Is the concept of varṇa meaningful or relevant to you? If you are an orthodox Hindu born into a particular varṇa, what is your advice?

Thank you.
 
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Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
I am Italian-American, my parents were blue collar workers, their parents and foreparents were laborers. I went to college and became a corporate manager. By these facts one would think I don’t have a defined varna. But I go with what I think my past karma assigns me... kṣatriya. If I had it to do over again I would become a law enforcement officer and/or member of the military, more likely law enforcement... “to serve and protect”.

I strongly identify with Lakshmana and Arjuna, even Karna, conflicted anti-hero he is (I actually like him and feel sorry for him). I’m not given to violence, but that’s not what kṣatriya are about. So, I think you are what you feel you are, what your gut feeling tells you. Some people don’t care about it. To me it’s pretty important because it encapsulates my personality and “code”... अहम् क्षत्रिय aham kṣatriya. ;)
 

ajay0

Well-Known Member
Namaste, everyone. First, allow me to explain that I put quotation marks around the word converts because I am aware that many Hindus do not like the words convert and conversion apparently due to the association of those words with religions that include proselytization as a practice. Personally, I like to say that I adopted Hinduism and thus I am an adopter rather than a 'convert.'

So far, it has been six months since I have counted myself a Hindu. By now, I am aware that there is a distinction made between jāti and varṇa. With respect to varṇa, I have heard two explanations of it. The first explanation is that one's varṇa is a matter of one's disposition and past karmas, and Bhagavad Gītā 18.41-44 supposedly supports this view. The other explanation is that one's varṇa is a matter of one's occupation, which means one is a vaiśya if one runs a business, but one becomes a kṣatriya if one sells the business and becomes a soldier.

I suspect that the ancients understood varṇa was by birth rather than personal assessment or mere choice in occupation. Śrī Rāmānujā, for instance, explains in his commentary on Bhagavad Gītā 18.41 that past karma determines whether one is born a brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, or śūdra, and that the dominant guṇa of a varṇa is the result of the past karma of the individual and the inherent nature of his or her varṇa. Also, if the Upanayana ceremony was performed for children at very young ages, how would anybody know if a boy was meant to follow the dharma of the brāhmaṇa varṇa, for example, unless he was born into that varṇa? When I was a child, I was not the scholarly type and I had no interest in working in the education industry. As an adult, I am the scholarly type and I am in the education industry. Nobody suspected that I would turn out to be this kind of person.

Something I realize as an adopter of Hinduism is that varṇa is irrelevant in my case. It is irrelevant in my case because I was not born to parents of a varṇa in a civilization where varṇa is important. I am a foreigner in relation to any such civilization. How should this shape my practice as a Hindu? If you are a fellow adopter of Hinduism, did you undergo an upanayana ceremony? Is the concept of varṇa meaningful or relevant to you? If you are an orthodox Hindu born into a particular varṇa, what is your advice?

Thank you.

See the varna system of occupations in general is described in the Vedas as corresponding to the four units of Brahmana, Kshatriya, Vaishya and Shudra. The priest-scholar-intellectual, warrior-administrator, businessman-manager and blue-collar worker are present in all societies without exception.

That mentioned in the Vedas was however functional and not birth-based. Many of the rishis or sages were from the farming and lower economic groups. Maharshi Satyakama Jabala mentioned in the Chandogya Upanishad is a famous example of a Rishi of unknown lineage who was accepted as a student in childhood by his Guru on account of his honesty and character.

Satyakama Jabala - Wikipedia

The caste-based system similar to the feudal system in other countries was a later development and part of the smritis or man-made laws that were supposed to be changed with changing times. Vedas do not endorse the caste system, and this is why the reformatory Hindu sects of Arya Samaj and Brahmo Samaj that follow the vedas strictly do not have the caste system amongst them and consider it as unvedic and manmade.

The quality of varna within oneself is dependent on the gunas too within oneself. In those whom sattva is high, there will be a disposition towards religion or scholarship or cultural arts .

Those in whom rajas is high, the disposition will be towards soldiering, sports , administrative work, activism, entrepreneurship-managerial activity and occupations involving a certain degree of danger and adventure.

Those in whom tamas is high, the disposition will be towards blue-collar work , agricultural work, and so on.

But this does not mean that varna is fixed. It varies as per the person's interests or changing conditions or circumstances.

You can see Krishna sweeping the floor and charioteering Arjuna's chariot as a Shudra, engaging in agricultural activity as a cowherd like a Vaishya, engaged in administrative work as a Yadava prince, and engaged in teaching like a Brahmana when he taught Arjuna and Uddhava.

Guru Nanak worked as a farmer and Kabir , Guru Raidas, Tukaram, Namdev were a weaver, cobbler, trader, tailor respectively, and at the same time were of Brahmana disposition on account of their enlightenment and teaching of religion.
 
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Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
How should this shape my practice as a Hindu? If you are a fellow adopter of Hinduism, did you undergo an upanayana ceremony? Is the concept of varṇa meaningful or relevant to you? If you are an orthodox Hindu born into a particular varṇa, what is your advice?
Your inclination is your varna (janmāt varnah), and it is ordained by God, if you are a theists; and by DNA if you are an atheist like me. 'Varna' is by birth and not by the family one is born.

Skanda Purana says:
"Janmanā jāyate sudrah, Samskārāt dwij uchyate .."
(All are shudras by birth, Samskaras (training) makes them twice-born)
A person born in a brahmin family but without Samskaras will still be a sudra.

1. If you are a studious type, like to read scriptures, science, etc., perhaps teach, then you are a 'brahmin'.
2. If you are strong in body, would like to join military, act bodily if someone is being mugged, then you are a 'kshatriya'.
3. If you are good at trade and business, or in farming, dairying, then you are a vaishya.
4. If you work for others for a remuneration, then you are a sudra.

I worked all my life for remuneration, therefore, at that time I was a sudra. Now I engage in study of scriptures, so I am a brahmin. :D
Jati is type, you are American or a Briton or a French or an Indian and so on. Or your profession will give you a jati.

Mangalavara, you are already a Hindu, you do not require any initiation. Moreover such rituals are conducted by brahmins interested in your money, so do not spend a big amount on it. I have gone through the 'yajnopavita' ceremony, but do not wear it now. We would hardly be able to fulfill all rituals which are associated with it. Times have changed, therefore I do not think it is necessary. 'Yuga Dharma', things change in different eras. Nothing special about that.
 
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JustGeorge

Not As Much Fun As I Look
Staff member
Premium Member
1. If you are a studious type, like to read scriptures, science, etc., perhaps teach, then you are a 'brahmin'.
2. If you are strong in body, would like to join military, act bodily if someone is being mugged, then you are a 'kshatriya'.
3. If you are good at trade and business, or in farming, dairying, then you are a vaishya.
4. If you work for others for a remuneration, then you are a sudra.

Some days, I think I hit just about all 4 of these, though vaishya the least these days... (I used to have a place to garden; not anymore).
 

shivsomashekhar

Well-Known Member
Something I realize as an adopter of Hinduism is that varṇa is irrelevant in my case. It is irrelevant in my case because I was not born to parents of a varṇa in a civilization where varṇa is important. I am a foreigner in relation to any such civilization. How should this shape my practice as a Hindu? If you are a fellow adopter of Hinduism, did you undergo an upanayana ceremony? Is the concept of varṇa meaningful or relevant to you? If you are an orthodox Hindu born into a particular varṇa, what is your advice?

Thank you.

The Varna system is hypothetical - with no practical application. The Aryans bought the concept with them as they came into India and Persia (Iran). So, on both sides, there was a class system with the bottom layer being the slave/Shudra. It was *never* a real thing as not all Brahmins were priests at any time (many held administrative positions, etc). It was not financially practical for kings to maintain standing armies. Instead, they would draft their citizens (farmers, artisans, etc) as necessary.

The Jati (caste) system is different from the above. It has all the natural consequences of endogamous marriages, is very cultural and has nothing to do with religion.

Both structures have no impact on your religious beliefs. There are very few things that you cannot do - entry into certain temples and eating with Brahmins in some orthodox settings. Neither of these things matter.
 
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mangalavara

सो ऽहम्
Premium Member
But I go with what I think my past karma assigns me... kṣatriya. If I had it to do over again I would become a law enforcement officer and/or member of the military, more likely law enforcement... “to serve and protect”.

I admire you for that. :)

That mentioned in the Vedas was however functional and not birth-based. Many of the rishis or sages were from the farming and lower economic groups. Maharshi Satyakama Jabala mentioned in the Chandogya Upanishad is a famous example of a Rishi of unknown lineage who was accepted as a student in childhood by his Guru on account of his honesty and character.

I have to wonder why the man who became Satyakāma's gurū had to inquire into his lineage. Looking at Chāndogyopaniṣad 4.4.3-5, it is apparent to me that the gurū asked him about his lineage because the gurū would only initiate individuals of the three higher varṇas. When Satyakāma told the truth that he did not know who his father was due to his mother's life when she was younger, the man who became his gurū recognized that only a true brāhmaṇa would be that honest. It could be that the gurū merely made an exception for him on account of his truthfulness, or, the gurū figured that Satyakāma's unknown father was a brāhmaṇa, hence Satyakāma was unknowingly born a brāhmaṇa and consequently had the disposition to be truthful.

You can see Krishna sweeping the floor and charioteering Arjuna's chariot as a Shudra, engaging in agricultural activity as a cowherd like a Vaishya, engaged in administrative work as a Yadava prince, and engaged in teaching like a Brahmana when he taught Arjuna and Uddhava.

This makes me wonder how important varṇa ultimately is in Sanātana Dharma if a person can go through each varṇa based on temporal inclinations and activities. I think that if varṇa is according to birth/lineage, then it is very important.

Your inclination is your varna (janmāt varnah), and it is ordained by God, if you are a theists; and by DNA if you are an atheist like me. 'Varna' is by birth and not by the family one is born.

To me, when a person says varṇa is by birth, it means the same thing as family or lineage. Inclinations can change over time. When I was 11, I loved military things and I wanted to be a solider. When I was in middle school and high school, I was in programs that were meant to motivate students to eventually join one of the US armed forces. After two years of one of those programs in high school, I wanted no more of it and lost all interest in military stuff. When I became an adult, I found myself drawn to intellectual activities, which I still am. Even though I hold a bachelor's degree, work in the education industry, have career plans in that industry, study scriptures every day, and have qualities that you might say are those of a brāhmaṇa, I don't think I could tell any Asian Hindu that I am a brāhmaṇa and be recognized as one.

Skanda Purana says:
"Janmanā jāyate sudrah, Samskārāt dwij uchyate .."
(All are shudras by birth, Samskaras (training) makes them twice-born)
A person born in a brahmin family but without Samskaras will still be a sudra.

If I correctly understand that quotation, it entails that an individual born in a brāhmaṇa family is a śūdra until he undergoes the saṃskāras and becomes a twice-born, an actual brāhmaṇa. Could a person born in a śūdra family undergo the saṃskāras and become a twice-born? Although I am aware that there are foreigners who become twice-born, I have to wonder if such a thing was originally intended in the varṇa system. Perhaps it is just a modern influence on Sanātana Dharma?

such rituals are conducted by brahmins interested in your money, so do not spend a big amount on it.

Here is my response to that. :p

We would hardly be able to fulfill all rituals which are associated with it. Times have changed, therefore I do not think it is necessary. 'Yuga Dharma', things change in different eras. Nothing special about that.

Now this is something very good to know! Taking Yuga Dharma into consideration, would you say the varṇa system is more relevant in previous yugas?
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
In my 40 years working with the Sri Lankan Tamil community, although never a formal thing, I've been treated at various times as having 4 different varnas, or castes ... Brahmin priest, Brahmin (teacher) Vellalar (farmer) and shudra (outcaste). It often depended on just what I was doing, and who was around. For some (especially older folk) caste can be right there, always in their subconscious. For others, (second generation immigrants) it's ignored, or hidden in the background. Of those, my favorite is the shudra, as it allows for more karma to be worked out, being treated like a piece of _____.

For me personally, there's no such thing, as Saiva Siddhanta the philosophy doesn't hold to caste.
 

mangalavara

सो ऽहम्
Premium Member
The Varna system is hypothetical with no practical application. The Aryans bought the concept with them as they came into India and Persia (Iran). So, on both sides, there was a class system with the bottom layer being the slave/Shudra. It was never a real thing as not all Brahmins were priests at any time (many held administrative positions, etc). It was not financially practical for kings to maintain standing armies. Instead, they would draft their citizens (farmers, artisans, etc) as necessary.

This is very good to know. Perhaps it was more practical in Satya Yuga?

The Jati (caste) system is different from the above. It has all the natural consequences of endogamous marriages, is very cultural and has nothing to do with religion.

Understood. Similarly, my occupational surname of Norman origin has nothing to do with my religious identity and practice.

Neither system impacts your religious beliefs. There are very things that you cannot do - entry into certain temples and eating with Brahmins in certain orthodox settings. Neither of these things matter.

Agreed. I am not the least bit upset that I cannot visit some temple that I've never heard of and cannot eat with some strangers I will probably never meet.

Thank you.
 

mangalavara

सो ऽहम्
Premium Member
Of those, my favorite is the shudra, as it allows for more karma to be worked out, being treated like a piece of _____.

Rubbish? I know what it is like. I once worked as a janitor. People who visit the mall are disgusting in every way.

For me personally, there's no such thing, as Saiva Siddhanta the philosophy doesn't hold to caste.

Interesting. I've noticed that other sects of Śaivism do not hold to caste. Kashmiri Śaivism and Lingayatism are two that I am aware of.
 

shivsomashekhar

Well-Known Member
This is very good to know. Perhaps it was more practical in Satya Yuga?

That is a hard question to answer. None of the four Vedas mention the Yugas - the concept comes from Puranic literature. The Veda and the Purana have different origins.

Personally, I think this classification of four Varnas wold have been hard to follow at any time and the value (for the sake of what?) remains unclear. For example, in a village of one thousand people, if we allocate equal counts to all varnas, then we will have one hundred+ priests. A village of one thousand will not need one hundred priests.

Also, in a clean and pure Satya Yuga, Kshatriyas (armies) would have no role to play.

Agreed. I am not the least bit upset that I cannot visit some temple that I've never heard of and cannot eat with some strangers I will probably never meet.

Yes!
 

mangalavara

सो ऽहम्
Premium Member
Personally, I think this classification of four Varnas wold have been hard to follow at any time and the value (for the sake of what?) remains unclear. For example, in a village of one thousand people, if we allocate equal counts to all varnas, then we will have one hundred+ priests. A village of one thousand will not need one hundred priests.

I had the impression that the system of four varṇas was an ancient form of organic unity, and that the purpose was to maintain Ṛta in the social sphere. If the system was hard to follow, I would not be surprised. In ancient China, there were the 'four occupations,' which was a classification of people as shì, nóng, gōng, and shāng. According to the Wikipedia article on the four occupations, this system left out other social classes, the definition of shì changed many times, and the parameters of each occupation were not constant due to commercialization. So, I would imagine that a varṇa system might not have taken all occupations into consideration, distinctions might not have always been clear, and the definitions of the four varṇas might have changed throughout history. Ultimately, such systems are probably just idealistic. In my opinion, the very idea of varṇas in the scriptures, especially as found in Puruṣasūkta (which Western scholars claim is a late addition to the Ṛgveda), is perhaps something meant to inspire us to acknowledge and value organic unity in society.

Also, in a clean and pure Satya Yuga, Kshatriyas (armies) would have no role to play.

I forgot about that.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
.. the man who became his gurū recognized that only a true brāhmaṇa would be that honest. It could be that the gurū merely made an exception for him on account of his truthfulness, or, the gurū figured that Satyakāma's unknown father was a brāhmaṇa, ..

To me, when a person says varṇa is by birth, it means the same thing as family or lineage. Inclinations can change over time. .. When I became an adult, I found myself drawn to intellectual activities, which I still am.

it entails that an individual born in a brāhmaṇa family is a śūdra until he undergoes the saṃskāras and becomes a twice-born, an actual brāhmaṇa.

Taking Yuga Dharma into consideration, would you say the varṇa system is more relevant in previous yugas?
The guru recognized his truthfulness.
Truthfulness is not a desired quality of brahmins only,
it is a desired quality for all humans, whatever be the varna or jati.
This is the effect of his 'samskaras'. Satyakama's mother, in spite of having sported with many men in her younger days, surely raised him well. All credit to her.

It does not mean that to me. Your interest in military was not your true inclination. That is why it faded when you grew up. Inclination, like karma, takes time to fructify, and it is what you born with, either by the grace of God (theist's take) or by DNA (atheist's take).

Mangalavara, kindly do not equate 'samskaras' with ceremonies. It is the input that parents, family, society, teachers, education, beliefs make into the psychological make-up of a person. Just going through the 'yajnopavita' ceremony and wearing the thread does not make anyone a 'dwij' (twice born).

:) Varna, inclination, remains true in all yugas. In future also, people will be born with different inclinations. And that is necessary for the world. All people cannot be/should not be 'kshatriyas'. Who would, then, engage in science or trade? We have only misinterpreted the meaning of 'varna' to make it dependent on family and lineage. That is not correct.

I appreciate your study and growing knowledge of Hinduism.
 
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Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Interesting. I've noticed that other sects of Śaivism do not hold to caste. Kashmiri Śaivism and Lingayatism are two that I am aware of.
Advaita too makes no distinctions, not even with non-living things; and in some Vaishnava beliefs also there are no distinctions. All are devotees of Lord Krishna or Narayana.

Sankara said 'na me jatibhedah' (for me there is no distinction of caste) in his 'Atma-shatakam'.

'Varna' and 'Jati' distinctions were more in practice than in religion. And it suited brahmins, reserved their space in religion.
In my opinion, the very idea of varṇas in the scriptures, especially as found in Puruṣasūkta (which Western scholars claim is a late addition to the Ṛgveda), is perhaps something meant to inspire us to acknowledge and value organic unity in society.
I too believe it was a late addition, just like "Nāsadiya Sukta', somewhere around 1,500 and 1,000 BCE after Aryans had interacted with and settled in India, since it is in the 10th book. The Central Asian herders were not much into philosophy.

"The more recent books (Books 1 and 10) in part also deal with philosophical or speculative questions, virtues such as dāna (charity) in society, questions about the origin of the universe and the nature of the divine, and other metaphysical issues in their hymns."
Rigveda - Wikipedia
 
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ajay0

Well-Known Member
I have to wonder why the man who became Satyakāma's gurū had to inquire into his lineage. Looking at Chāndogyopaniṣad 4.4.3-5, it is apparent to me that the gurū asked him about his lineage because the gurū would only initiate individuals of the three higher varṇas.

Most of the Rishis in those times themselves were of the lower economic shudra groups engaged in farming, tanning, and so on.

The earlier vedic system did not entertain casteism, and this was a later development through the Manu smriti which established the feudal birth-based caste system. This however has no basis in the Vedas and was probably compelled by economic and social factors at that time, and supposed to change with time.



When Satyakāma told the truth that he did not know who his father was due to his mother's life when she was younger, the man who became his gurū recognized that only a true brāhmaṇa would be that honest. It could be that the gurū merely made an exception for him on account of his truthfulness, or, the gurū figured that Satyakāma's unknown father was a brāhmaṇa, hence Satyakāma was unknowingly born a brāhmaṇa and consequently had the disposition to be truthful.

It is the Varna or character-disposition that the Guru guaged Satyakama and not his birth or Jati. Due to his honest character and conduct, Satyakama was seen as a Brahmana.

The father may be a birth-based brahmana in the caste system, but then cannot be seen as a true Brahmana, as per your observation, in terms of varna which is the important point, as he had taken advantage of a lower caste female in his household .

This would obviously be a asura or demonic like quality in terms of varna where one would seek sensory pleasure at the expense of someone forsaking virtuous conduct.

This makes me wonder how important varṇa ultimately is in Sanātana Dharma if a person can go through each varṇa based on temporal inclinations and activities. I think that if varṇa is according to birth/lineage, then it is very important.

Casteism hampers meritocracy, and this was the reason why India was under exploitative foreign rule for many centuries. The invaders had a more meritocratic structure within themselves favoring competence, and which enabled them to conquer and rule easily.

If I correctly understand that quotation, it entails that an individual born in a brāhmaṇa family is a śūdra until he undergoes the saṃskāras and becomes a twice-born, an actual brāhmaṇa. Could a person born in a śūdra family undergo the saṃskāras and become a twice-born? Although I am aware that there are foreigners who become twice-born, I have to wonder if such a thing was originally intended in the varṇa system. Perhaps it is just a modern influence on Sanātana Dharma?

Yes, this is what the true varna system proclaims.

The Arya Samaj and Brahmo Samaj which goes solely by the Vedas and not later smritis provides the necessary rituals and training in vedas and samskaras to all Hindus including foreigners.


Hinduism in its pure Vedic form actually inclines to the modern political ideals of equality, fraternity and liberty of all human beings. I had created a thread in this regard...

Liberty, fraternity and equality are cornerstones of Hinduism
 
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ajay0

Well-Known Member
The Aryan invasion theory has been discounted by modern historians due to recent findings and discoveries. The swastika has been found in the Indus Valley civilization relics.


Swastika | Harappa

The Arya in eastern Dhamic philosophy means the 'noble one' or one of noble character or conduct, characterised by higher states of consciousness.This is how it is defined in Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism.

If you look into it, you can see that the Avatars Rama, Krishna as well as other prominent characters like Bharatha, Abhimanyu, Drona, Draupadi, Arjuna, Nakula, Pradyumna, Damayanti are considered to be dark-skinned in the ancient Hindu scriptures. Same goes for Vishnu who is considered to be an 'Aryan' god by historians of the older school and is characterized as dark-skinned as well.

Swami Dayananda Saraswati, Swami Vivekananda, Aurobindo, Swami Chinmayananda and the Prajapita Brahmakumaris have also stated that the term Arya means one of noble character or conduct and is not a race related term.


Swami Ranganathananda has expounded on the term Arya in his commentary on the Bhagavad Gita...


' Arya is not a race; Arya means a noble-minded person. The word Arya is often confused with a race. In the beginning, western historians propounded this theory of the Aryan race. That developed into Hitler's Aryan superiority. And when Hitler died, the Aryan race theory also died ! But the word Arya is used in sanskrit always for the noble-minded person.

Take any sanskrit drama. The person will address another character as 'My dear Arya,noble-minded person'. And Buddha spoke of his teachings as Arya-satyani, Noble Truths. Noble is the word for Arya there. The four Noble truths, Arya Satyani. So, the word Arya was used by Buddha, as also by earlier Vedic literature.

And this word, Arya is, therefore, a very great word in Sanskrit. Be an Aryan means, be noble-minded. Don't be petty, don't be small. ' ~ Swami Ranganathananda, commentary of the Bhagavad gita ( Volume 1,Chapter 2.88)
 

The Crimson Universe

Active Member
Forget the labels. (Preists, warriors, merchants, labourers etc.)

Forget the vessels/sheaths (weak, strong, white, black etc.)

Forget the dispositions/samskaras.

These are all acquired when we come in contact with maya.

We (Brahman) will leave them all behind one day and again reunite with with our greater whole (Brahman). :=)
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
We (Brahman) will leave them all behind one day and again reunite with with our greater whole (Brahman). :=)
Unite? There is no union or separation in Advaita. Things were always Brahman, they are Brahman at the moment, they will always be Brahman in future, since there is nothing else in the universe.
 
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