Would you prefer to be a rich and powerful atheist, or an inept impoverished believer?

Being rich has its benefits. You can put all that money to good use if you really love God and his creatures. Like doing charity, helping the sick and homeless, or build a small library in your own home filled with books/scriptures of all the major religions, that way you would be able to increase your knowledge about various Gods/Goddesses from all around the world.

But if i'm born a popper, then i may not get to do all these above things.

Also being super rich has its drawbacks in my opinion. It often gives rise to temptations and can lead us away from the path of righteousness. Too much money in one's bank account means there's 70 percent chance he/she will be tempted to use it on wordly pleasures.
... But being poor also has its drawbacks. Such a man would work day and night just to pay his bills and to feed his family. Such a person won't have the time to read scriptures or to take his family to sites of pilgrimage.

So i guess i'll choose neither A nor B, but stay somewhere in the middle.
A decent job that will take care of all my basic needs like food, clothes, shelter and at the same time provide me with sufficient money, which i could use on charity and to buy scriptures. :=)

Twilight Hue said:

One question, where do prosperity gospel evangelicals fit in?

Click to expand...

Probably find them queuing up at the eye of the needle.

RestlessSoul said:

Not sure what I’d do with a castle. Cold, draughty places, which according to folklore, even the princesses are desperate to escape from. A yacht would only bring headaches - like, where the hell do you park it? And I can’t imagine anything worse than having power over people; I was a manager in a labour-intensive industry for several years, and that was bad enough - I absolutely hated telling people what to do. So option B makes no appeal at all. It genuinely sounds like hell on earth.

My only objection to option A, is to note that I have seen more genuine friendship and cameraderie among the poor, than the few rich people I have known have ever felt able to count on. I mean, everyone pretends to love you when you’re rich, right? Whereas if somebody calls you Brother when you’re poor, you know they mean it.

Click to expand...

Good dude. Yeah you're right. Most of these things often carry hefty taxes too. Almost like there are people in government trying to actively grab at them. To those with all the money and power (because they try to run things), it seems like it's never enough for them. They want your stuff too, and won't leave you alone about it. If these things were really satisfying, wouldn't they be enough for the most money-grubbing and power-seeking? And yes, when I've been giben authority, it was usually as part of a responsibility (like, the boss told me to move TVs and it involved getting a forklift to get them from the top shelf). In other words, it carried the burden of the job.

All a person needs is a quiet house and family to go with it. To have friends. To have God with you. Not even a job is important if you can get free of taxes.

We see something identical to this question offered in the Bible. "I'll give you all the money and power, if you'll only serve me," Satan says. Proving Satanism is really atheism, and the devil is actually just the godlessness in your own mind. I've had jobs offer this sorta deal (usually packaged as that I'll be able to do more for my family with more money. But what good is it if you don't get to see them?) I turned them down because I wanted the same hours I had. They usually responded by massively cutting my hours. Basically stopped working after all jobs turned out the same.

Greg Levenski said:

Being rich has its benefits. You can put all that money to good use if you really love God and his creatures. Like doing charity, helping the sick and homeless, or build a small library in your own home filled with books/scriptures of all the major religions, that way you would be able to increase your knowledge about various Gods/Goddesses from all around the world.

But if i'm born a popper, then i may not get to do all these above things.

Also being super rich has its drawbacks in my opinion. It often gives rise to temptations and can lead us away from the path of righteousness. Too much money in one's bank account means there's 70 percent chance he/she will be tempted to use it on wordly pleasures.
... But being poor also has its drawbacks. Such a man would work day and night just to pay his bills and to feed his family. Such a person won't have the time to read scriptures or to take his family to sites of pilgrimage.

So i guess i'll choose neither A nor B, but stay somewhere in the middle.
A decent job that will take care of all my basic needs like food, clothes, shelter and at the same time provide me with sufficient money, which i could use on charity and to buy scriptures. :=)

Click to expand...

There's no middle here. B can use money because they have fewer taxes. The bills you are talking about is from one of two things, getting in debt or spending beyond your means. You can always get like a 1/10 acre patch to park your truck on. But this is a choice between Mammon and God. You're not allowed to spend your money unselfishly unless you sell all these possessions.
The problem is that in order to get these, you've sworn allegiance against God and for money. No amount of charity fixes this, only whether God will forgive you.

Samantha Rinne said:

This seems suspiciously similar to the choice between chocolate and green onion Chex.

"Do you want this one which is really crappy or this one?"



And Christians.

"Which nobody can deny" is something that I flatly deny. God doesn't murder anyone. We die because of sin. In other words, it is your own damned fault that you are dying. Worse, atheism is a belief without a possibility of afterlife. In essence, atheism has murdered everyone it has converted, while theism has saved their souls for the afterlife.

Lastly, it is literally just stuff. Money is just paper, unless you believe in its value. Nice houses, yachts, and such fall apart unless you care for them. Beauty fades when you age. And we don't have power over people. Such things are lent to the tenants of the world. But when the Master returns, all of this falls apart. And when you die, you can't take it with you.

You are either lying to us, or you yourself have been deceived.

Click to expand...

How about the fact that God says "I will harden Pharaoh's heart" and then he sends the Angel of death to kill the first born of Egypt (some of them innocent children and babies. Do babies sin?)

How is killing children and babies because Pharaoh had hardness of heart not murder. Especially when you consider the scandalous fact that God hardened Pharaoh's heart.

Just google God saying "I will harden Pharaoh's heart" and the Angel of death killing the first born.

Google Joshua's genocides that God ordered in the Old Testament.

firedragon said:

Ah mate, I think you are just a cut and paste artist with a lot of hatred in your heart. These are all just fancy words. Sounds nice.

The question of your OP doesnt correspond properly with your Title. You have much more nailing down in your post compared to the title so if someone voted prior to reading your post, they are seriously mistaken about "You".

Have a blast.

Click to expand...

I already know you are mistaken because I want all people including Yahweh and all Spirit beings to have perfect peace, happiness, euphoria, joy, bliss, and I want all dreams to come true (with the exception of, I don't want dreams to come true which involve hurting people, unless it's with people that want to agree to be hurt).

There is no hatred contained in those desires. I even love Yahweh, I just don't like his bigotry and hatred. I want all souls to be happy.

Also, I have read the Qur'an and the Bible front to back. There is much calls to bigotry and I have already showed you graphic tortures and calls to violence in the Qur'an.

Torturing people and this life and in the next is psychopathic. You can't argue otherwise. So, please do if you like to defend bigotry and psychopathic torture. Have a blast But such tortures and mutilations as they are expressed in the Qur'an are not okay under ANY circumstances.

Spiderman said:

I already know you are mistaken because I want all people including Yahweh and all Spirit beings to have perfect peace, happiness, euphoria, joy, bliss, and I want all dreams to come true (with the exception of, I don't want dreams to come true which involve hurting people, unless it's with people that want to agree to be hurt).

There is no hatred contained in those desires. I even love Yahweh, I just don't like his bigotry and hatred. I want all souls to be happy.

Also, I have read the Qur'an and the Bible front to back. There is much calls to bigotry and I have already showed you graphic tortures and calls to violence in the Qur'an.

Torturing people and this life and in the next is psychopathic. You can't argue otherwise. So, please do if you like to defend bigotry and psychopathic torture. Have a blast But such tortures and mutilations as they are expressed in the Qur'an are not okay under ANY circumstances.

Click to expand...

Did you think that this was a great opportunity to express your feelings even though it is not relevant to your own thread?

firedragon said:

Did you think that this was a great opportunity to express your feelings even though it is not relevant to your own thread?

Click to expand...

You said I was hateful, so I was letting you know I don't hate anyone or Yahweh. I know without a doubt you are mistaken there.

You also seemed to claim that I didn't know what I was talking about in conversations I had with you prior, and you said I was a "cut and paste artist".

It is relevant to the thread because I mentioned behaviors that I object to Yahweh displaying. Yahweh according to the Qur'an is, the God of Abraham and Moses = "Allah". So , it is relevant to what I said in the OP as well as relevant to conversations I had with you in the past.

You insist that I am hateful, when I want everyone, including Yahweh/Allah to be happy, and I know this to be true. Therefore you are wrong. I just want Yahweh/Allah to not be jealous and sadistic and torture and murder people.

But I object to Yahweh ordering mass-genocide, and trampling the rights of other innocent people, drowning pregnant women and babies in the great flood, and destroying what other people hold as sacred. I object to Yahweh's/Allah's wrath, bigotry, narcissism, and sadism.

For me to object to those qualities is not hatred or objecting to acts of mass-killings is not hatred. Hatred is sometimes to approve of Yahweh's sadism and torture and mass-killings, or defend it.

I love people. Therefore love commands me to object to toxic writings contained in Ancient Texts involving Yahweh/Allah about him torturing people forever and wiping out large amounts of people based on them having different Religious beliefs/practices.

Spiderman said:

You said I was hateful, so I was letting you know I don't hate anyone or Yahweh. I know without a doubt you are mistaken there.

You also seemed to claim that I didn't know what I was talking about in conversations I had with you prior, and you said I was a "cut and paste artist".

It is relevant to the thread because I mentioned behaviors that I object to Yahweh displaying. Yahweh according to the Qur'an is, the God of Abraham and Moses = "Allah". So , it is relevant to what I said in the OP as well as relevant to conversations I had with you in the past.

You insist that I am hateful, when I want everyone, including Yahweh/Allah to be happy, and I know this to be true. Therefore you are wrong. I just want Yahweh/Allah to not be jealous and sadistic and torture and murder people.

But I object to Yahweh ordering mass-genocide, and trampling the rights of other innocent people, drowning pregnant women and babies in the great flood, and destroying what other people hold as sacred. I object to Yahweh's/Allah's wrath, bigotry, narcissism, and sadism.

For me to object to those qualities is not hatred or objecting to acts of mass-killings is not hatred. Hatred is sometimes to approve of Yahweh's sadism and torture and mass-killings, or defend it.

I love people. Therefore love commands me to object to toxic writings contained in Ancient Texts involving Yahweh/Allah about him torturing people forever and wiping out large amounts of people based on them having different Religious beliefs/practices.

Click to expand...

All I see is a lot of hate.

firedragon said:

All I see is a lot of hate.

Click to expand...

What would lead you to that conclusion?

Because I despise violence, genocide, slavery, and religious bigotry and torture?

If that is hate, well, maybe hate isn't so bad in that context?

Neither. I recommend the middle path.

Spiderman said:

...
The God of the Old Testament is undeniably a mass murderer, a child (and pregnant mother) killer, a hateful intolerant jealous sadistic bigot. ...

Click to expand...

Sorry, I disagree with that.

Spiderman said:

Let's assume there is some supernatural being out there that is responsible for the creation of earth and it's creatures.

You have the option of

A) Be poor, unattractive in the eyes of the world, be feeble (weak), inept, be unimpressive, have no human friends, have no earthly family, but be beautiful and rich in the eyes of God (s)

(that supernatural creator being (s), and have a relationship with him/her )

B) be materially wealthy, have mansions, a castle, yachts, power over people, many talents, be renowned for your external beauty (or how handsome you are), everything comes easy for you, life of total luxury and ease and comfort, lots of beautiful erotic dancing girls if that's your thing, and all that your heart could desire regarding pleasure and material possessions.

The only downside to option B) is you have no relationship with the Supernatural creator being(s) that made earth and are a total atheist.

Now, granted, I'm not talking about the creator as he is often displayed. Scripture says "God is love" and God is beautiful.

The God of the Old Testament is undeniably a mass murderer, a child (and pregnant mother) killer, a hateful intolerant jealous sadistic bigot. Which nobody can deny. It's easy to prove.

But we don't know that God had anything to do with what the Old Testament attributes to him.

So, if indeed "God is love" and nothing is more beautiful, perfect, wise, and powerful than God, would you rather have option

A) or B)

Please be honest guys. If you prefer the erotic dancing dancing girls and mansion over being a despised popper who has God, it's okay.

Click to expand...

I chose "b" but prefer "c" - a non-impoverished, adept, powerful and blessed because I am rich with God.

Spiderman said:

I see much good in Scripture. Ordering genocide and sanctioning taking Virgins as sex slaves is not okay under any circumstances. Torturing people where there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth, and tossing them into a lake of fire for not believing in an unseen entity, is simply disgusting, sick, wrong, cruel, and unjust. Every bit of my moral compass and conscience tells me so.

God hardening Pharaoh's heart and then killing babies, children, and first born of Egypt, because of Pharaoh's hardness of heart, is simply wicked, disgusting, totally goes against my conscience.

God told Moses "I will harden Pharaoh's heart...."

(Not to mention, smearing innocent lambs blood on your door posts to avoid getting your kid (pun intended) killed, doesn't strike me as being healthy. )

Click to expand...

God has no pleasure in the death of the wicked but heaven rejoices when one person repents. The lake of fire is the result of sin. Because God created all things with His Word. He literally spoke it all into existence and it exists because it's upheld by the Word of creation. So what happens when we break the Word of God? We unravel what was made and we return to chaotic form from whence we came. because in the beginning God called us out of chaos and made us exist. It's like equivalent of splitting the atom. You know Hiroshima ... Nagasaki? Come on. It creates an atomic explosion. You don't want that.

God doesn't want us to return to chaotic form. He wants us to be like he spoke us to be in the beginning. He wants us to exist in his love forever. And that's what he has for us. Jesus came as the WORD of creation itself incarnate to restore us again to the Father. He is literally rewriting us into the Father's kingdom.

How do you know Pharaoh was even human? I doubt he was. Maybe he was some kind of hybrid. He thought he was a god. What an evil man if he was a man. He was responsible for a lot of death and suffering.

So there comes a time when God does send judgment on bad people. And in this case God sent the hardness of heart to him so he would make a mistake and destroy himself. God does not send hardness of heart like this to everyone. Only really bad people whose time for judgment has come. So let's be clear about that.

We are washed in waters of baptism from sin and as the result of sin was just about to catch up with the children of Israel -the result of sin being death (James 1:15) and symbolized by Pharaoh and his army- they were saved by the water coming back to drown Pharaoh and his army. Like we are supposed to be saved from sin by baptism.

The sea is called red to symbolize the color of sin. (Isaiah 1:18)

As for virgins being taken as sex slaves. You have to admit Jesus said a law was given because the hardness of the people's hearts. (Matthew 19:8) That means the Law of Moses made certain allowances for the people of that time period because they weren't ready for anything stricter than that. But God actually wanted it to be stricter. So of course it's true of slavery as well. Slavery never really pleased God because it breaks the 2nd greatest commandment. "Love your neighbor as yourself" And Jesus said "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" Which more or less condemns all slavery.

But, slavery was just the reality of bronze age warfare. Just read the Iliad for example. What the Greeks or even the Trojans did to war captives. They took only women by the way.

Taking slaves from captives of war was a fact of bronze age life. It wasn't something new. The fact that the Law tries to regulate this ancient practice and make it slightly more humane is a good thing. It was progress. Actually, they had to marry the woman they captured according to the law or else they were to be let go (free) if the capturer didn't want to marry them after he raped them. So at least they had some rights unlike other nations who did whatever they wanted to war captives.

Even now in some countries like Kazakhstan or whatever; it is the custom to kidnap your bride and some people still do it from what I hear. It's not good obviously; but that's just how it is. And less and less people do it these days but even those who don't will still act it out. On their wedding day they pretend they are kidnapping the bride(it's just for show) but that's how ingrained that practice is in many cultures.

So you blaming God for wanting virgins to be raped is dead wrong and historically inaccurate.

As for lamb blood. You know they would eat the lamb right? So what's the problem with lamb blood on a doorpost if you're eating it anyway? How do you even come up with some of this stuff?