catholics, orthodox, and protestants: can you explain the trinity?

Dogknox20 said:

...Genesis 3:2 The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’”
Clearly Eve refused to listen to her husband thus showing us.. Eve did not love Adam! One more point.. Adam did not love Eve... ALL....




URAVIP2ME all know it is the Mans job to protect the family.. All know snakes are bad news, all know it's the Mans Job is to get rid of any danger!
Look at this verse....6 When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it.

Adam did not protect Eve from the snake! AND..
12 The man said, “The woman you put here with me—she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it.”

God can put them together but he cannot force them to love! It would not be "True Love" if God forced them! God would NOT be perfect if God forced them to love! He had to remove them from heaven because only those with LOVE can enter! Only those people who Love God can enter!

God removed them before they could eat from the Tree Of Life! Eat and live forever in heaven! Jesus is the Way the truth & "The LIFE"! All who eat the living forever flesh of Jesus will have Life eternally; They .. Will live forever
53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.”

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Yes, Eve was Not showing love for Adam Nor love for God. Adam blames God for giving him Eve at Genesis 3:12
At Genesis 3:13 we find that Eve blames Satan aka the Serpent. - 1 Timothy 2:14
One person said that he thought Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet was based on Adam and Eve.
He felt that Adam loved Eve so much that to the point what he did was deliberate showed Adam loved Eve.
By wilfully eating, Adam deliberately committed suicide rather than live without Eve.
The penalty for committing such a crime was capital punishment aka death.
There was No reward for their sinning, but simply ' returning ' to the dust of the ground - Genesis 3:19.
A person can Not ' return ' to a place they never were before. They went back to where Adam started.
In other words, those law breakers (A&E) did Not open up the way to Heaven. ( as we know Jesus did )
The ' will live forever ' starts with being resurrected.
There was No resurrection to ' living forever ' before Jesus died.
ALL who died before Jesus (John 3:13) did Not ascend (be resurrected) including King David - Acts of the Apostles 2:34.
That is why Acts of the Apostles 24:15 uses the future tense that there ' is going to be ' a resurrection.....
A resurrection starting with faithful Abel - Matthew 23:35 - because Jesus informs us that righteous blood starts with Abel. - Hebrews 11:4.
Since heavenly life was Not offered before Luke 22:28-30 then that means an 'earthly resurrection' starting for Adam onward.
ALL the people Jesus resurrected were brought back to life here on Earth.
Jesus was giving us a preview, a small sample, of what he is going to do during his thousand-year reign over Earth.
Jesus reigns over Earth (Not Heaven) for a thousand years.- 1 Corinthians 15:24-26

IndigoChild5559 said:

When you allow for this possibility, then ANYONE can claim to be the Messiah, even you and me, and simply say,"Hey I'm the messiah, I'll fulfill the prophecies next time I come." It's ridiculous.

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I believe you must be jesting. There are enough prophecies already fulfilled to prove Jesus is the Messiah.

Dogknox20 said:

.....URAVIP2ME all know it is the Mans job to protect the family.. All know snakes are bad news, all know it's the Mans Job is to get rid of any danger!
Look at this verse....6 When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it. Adam did not protect Eve from the snake!..............

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I find Eden's ' snake in the grass ' was simply Satan using a Serpent as a ventriloquist uses his dummy.
So, it was Not just a simple meaning that all snakes are bad news, but yes it is man's job to protect from danger.
(In Eden there was harmony between man and animals. Jesus will return that harmony - Isaiah 65:25; Isaiah 11:6-9)

Muffled said:

I believe you must be jesting. There are enough prophecies already fulfilled to prove Jesus is the Messiah.

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Actually the vast majority of so-called prophecies that Christians consider are not prophecies at all. They are instances where you look at the text and imagine a prophecy where none exists. Let me give you just one example.

Matthew 2:15 states that "Out of Egypt I have called my son," is a prophecy that Jesus fulfilled when his family returned to Nazareth from Egypt. In fact this is NOT a messianic prophecy at all. Hosea 11:1 states, "When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son." It is abundantly clear that Hosea 11:1 is referring to Israel, not the messiah, and is referring to God delivering us from slavery in Egypt. This idea that it refers to Jesus is sheer imagination.

There are actually very very very few prophecies about the Messiah, and most of them, Jesus simply did not fulfill.

And AGAIN, the ONLY way we know if someone is the Messiah is if he fulfills them ALL. Jesus didn't do that, thus he is out of the running as a possible candidate for the Messiah.

IndigoChild5559 said:

There are actually very very very few prophecies about the Messiah

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...if there are any at all. 'The messiah' is hard to find in Jewish scripture. It has messiahs, including Cyrus the Persian.

Why, then, do gospel authors claim Jesus is 'The' messiah and Matthew that he is the son brought from Egypt? It seems obvious to me that the gospel is not talking about a man, even though there is a man named Jesus. Its talking about the church being a renewal of Judaism or an emanation of it. The literal take of Matthew comes from times when people in ignorance tried to reform Christianity directly from the gospels. They lost the context.

I think that they, in ignorance, simply read the gospels without proper background, not even reading Hosea or the books Matthew alluded to. This, then, resulted in this very literal take which became widespread, but it wasn't the end of faith or of the influence of the scripture. It didn't destroy Jesus' aims which continued to be worked on from both the traditionalists and individuals in the reformed groups. The work continued to bring peace and unite everyone even though there were lumps in the mix.

Even with the problems much has been accomplished both socially and politically -- over eons of time. That doesn't mean we can't call out the problems of literalism and ignorance. We can, but eliminating ignorance or literalism isn't going to magically accomplish the goals of Jesus. They are long term goals for multiple generations and however many eons are necessary. That is why I think ignorance and literalism are only lumps in the mixture for the cake. There will always be people who will recognize them for the lumps they are.

There remains Jesus and the trinity though not what people think when only reading gospels and literally. So say I.

Unveiled Artist said:

Ok..but this doesn't invalidate the main point in my comment.

Unless you're looking for a fundamentalist definition, it just means three come to one-tri -unity

Unity, duality, Trinity, etc. The root word is unity.

Scripture: I "and" the father are one.

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why is it no one also reads John 17:11 to get a understanding to what jesus said "I and the father are one"

cataway said:

why is it no one also reads John 17:11 to get a understanding to what jesus said "I and the father are one"

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Because the creator and jesus are in one accord or mission even though they are not each other. For example, two spouses are one but they have different roles (depending on the family). The mother and her child are one but not in their nature, age, and maturity.

Where in scripture does it say jesus IS the creator?

Not joint (as per the word 'and') just one and the same person/being/spirit?

Unveiled Artist said:

Because the creator and jesus are in one accord or mission even though they are not each other. For example, two spouses are one but they have different roles (depending on the family). The mother and her child are one but not in their nature, age, and maturity.

Where in scripture does it say jesus IS the creator?

Not joint (as per the word 'and') just one and the same person/being/spirit?

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17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me," that 'they' be one, as we are."

cataway said:

17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me," that 'they' be one, as we are."

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They and we means more than one person. They wouldn't be refered to individually if they are one person.

cataway said:

17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me," that 'they' be one, as we are."

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But "we" aren't one except for figuratively. So, I guess that would mean that the oneness of Jesus with God is figurative. right?

IndigoChild5559 said:

So, I guess that would mean that the oneness of Jesus with God is figurative. right?

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It involves the use of "essence" as us used by Aristotle and Plato, which was used by the authors of the NT when it was translated into Koine Greek.

So, to put it another way, the belief is that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are of the "essence" of God, which I think is likely compliant with your use of "figurative".

ChristineM said:

All three were god. Kind of confusing to a 11 year old but that's what we were told

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Most christians believe God is one being shared by three persons.

They believe God is one because God according to their belief is only one being.

So a human is one person in one being, but God according to most christians is three persons in one being.

Unveiled Artist said:

Ok..but this doesn't invalidate the main point in my comment.

Unless you're looking for a fundamentalist definition, it just means three come to one-tri -unity

Unity, duality, Trinity, etc. The root word is unity.

Scripture: I "and" the father are one.

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No what you desribe is tritheism. Tritheism is the belief that three different beings/gods work, live in total unity. So this is polytheism

The trinity doctrine is that God is only one Being/substance/essence. And because of this God is only one. This is a kind of monotheism. It is the belief that God is only one being shared by three persons

Terrywoodenpic said:

For the first 300 years the trinity was not a thing in Christianity.
It was constructed to avoid polytheism.

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Yes the trinity was constructed to avoid polytheism. According to the trinity doctrine God is only one Being/substance/essence shared by three persons. so the trinity is soft monotheism.

Many christians in the world say they found evidence of the trinity in the Bible. But the Bible is interpreteted in many different ways. Some christians believe the trinity is not in the Bible. Christians disagree with each other about what God is.

Unveiled Artist said:

Meandflower,the bible teaches that the the three entities of the trinity compose of creator, savior, and spirit. The crux of their relationship is divinity.

I've only heard a handful of christians say Jesus is the creator. Most at least in the church do not teach that.

Trinity in scripture is a relationship that make three into a unity.

Are you asking for a nonbiblical definition?

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What you desribe is tritheism. Tritheism is the belief that three different beings/gods work, live in total unity. So this is polytheism

The trinity doctrine is that God is only one Being/substance/essence. And because of this God is only one. This is a kind of monotheism. It is the belief that God is only one being shared by three persons

The trinity is three real persons in one Being. The three persons in God can communicate with each other and is loving each other but at the same time they share the same Being.

Unveiled Artist said:

Unity, duality, trinity, and so on. It speaks of the relationship between three things. The three things are one. It's just a label christians use to denote the divinity of god via creator, savior, and spirit

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The trinity is three real persons in one Being. The three persons in God can communicate with each other and is loving each other but at the same time they share the same Being.

Meandflower said:

No what you desribe is tritheism. Tritheism is the belief that three different beings/gods work, live in total unity. So this is polytheism

The trinity doctrine is that God is only one Being/substance/essence. And because of this God is only one. This is a kind of monotheism. It is the belief that God is only one being shared by three persons

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An incarnation can't be the source and a spirit can't be human. They can share the same nature (not work together) as a child shares it's mother's DNA, but I'm sure believers can tell the difference.

It's how it's presented in mass in the Catholic church. The dove over the altar is god. The priest is Christ. The experience of communion is of the holy spirit. In him, through him, and of him the mass is saved by taking in his body and blood.

Another example is the Eucharist. Catholics know that wine isn't blood and bread isn't flesh. My priest almost fell off his chair when I asked.

They are one in essence but not as accidents. Like Christ. One in essence with his father and believers but not in accidents, his flesh.

It's called the mystery of faith. I've only know some protestants treat Christ as the creator but not all do.

I'm sure you know the difference between a spirit and human?

Unveiled Artist said:

Because the creator and jesus are in one accord or mission even though they are not each other. For example, two spouses are one but they have different roles (depending on the family). The mother and her child are one but not in their nature, age, and maturity.

Where in scripture does it say jesus IS the creator?

Not joint (as per the word 'and') just one and the same person/being/spirit?

Click to expand...

The trinity is three real persons in one Being. The three persons in God can communicate with each other and is loving each other but at the same time they share the same Being.

Meandflower said:

What you desribe is tritheism. Tritheism is the belief that three different beings/gods work, live in total unity. So this is polytheism

The trinity doctrine is that God is only one Being/substance/essence. And because of this God is only one. This is a kind of monotheism. It is the belief that God is only one being shared by three persons

The trinity is three real persons in one Being. The three persons in God can communicate with each other and is loving each other but at the same time they share the same Being.

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Also, Christ is said to be a historical figure. Can you shine if he were alive some 2000 years later here what he would do if people called him the creator?

God/lord/father were titles.

If a person cant be God today the same laws of reality would exist in history too. We don't live in a vacuum.

Meandflower said:

The trinity is three real persons in one Being. The three persons in God can communicate with each other and is loving each other but at the same time they share the same Being.

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The three things are one.

Each separate in scripture. Christ is subordinate to his father, for example, not himself.

Seeing them separate doesn't devalue them. It's not a theology thing. That's how the bible was translated.