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Matthew 16:18

exchemist

Veteran Member
Right off…It’s NOT me who said “The flesh counts to NOTHING”, it’s Jesus himself (read your Bible). Do you want to believe he never said that??! BUT he did say that … and he said that AFTER he said all those ‘eat my flesh, drink my blood….’, so, go figure!


Second point…..yes, it’s past tense and it’s good to know that you know your grammar, good for you!

The words I have spoken’ is NOT a reference to ‘eat my flesh, drink my blood as you perceived… and how could anyone even believe that LITERALLY, especially AFTER Jesus had made it EXPLICITLY CLEAR that his flesh counts to NOTHING??

The words I have spoken’ is CLEARLY a reference to his preaching and his preaching is ‘full of Spirit and life’. Then, again, isn’t the preaching of ALL prophets is full of Spirit and life too ???

Much of the confusion and the angst of Jesus’ preaching come from the physical symbolism he used. Examples of the physical symbolism Jesus used in his preaching are –
‘I am the bread …..’ (John 6:36)
‘I am the Light ….’ (John 8:12),
‘I am the door…...’ (John 10:9).
-they are ferocious wolves (Matthew 7:15)… and if you are to take these words of physical symbolism LITERALLY, then, you are going to miss the message Jesus was preaching.

You can find physical symbolism all over the OT too, for example,,
- dragon/serpent/snake/monster to refer to Satan or his agency (Isaiah 27:1, Isaiah 30:6, Psalm 74:13-14)
- Beast to refer to kingdom/political power/government (Daniel 7:17, Daniel 7:23)
- Tongue to refer to language or speech (Exodus 4:10)…..

So, it’s not surprising that Jesus too will follow the tradition of the OT (of using physical symbolism) in his preaching… the only problem is, as you have repeatedly proven, even today, in the 21st Century, there are still people who took Jesus’ words of physical symbolism LITERALLY.


Third Point……third point…yes…, the third point… well, it’s a repeat of the ‘Right off…’ point above, isn’t it??


Forth and most important point….. ALL prophets are taught by God and it would be wrong to say otherwise. Most parts of Jesus’ preaching come from the physical symbolism he used which should NOT be taken literally - see the second point above.


God NEVER taught you to eat flesh and drink blood, so, don't put words in God's mouth... and I have told you before the reason the Jews began to argue among themselves just like you are arguing with me now, was because the Jews, like you, took Jesus’ words of physical symbolism LITERALLY!

Christians, like you, may think they believe the words of Jesus, BUT, the more important is - do the Christians, like you, understand the physical symbolic words of Jesus?? Based from your comments which reflect your understanding, they, like you, CLEARLY don’t!

AND you STILL have not answered my questions – if you took Jesus’ words literally, then, do you believe, by eating Jesus’ flesh, you will live forever? Have you drunk deadly poison to prove your faith and belief in Jesus??
I think your posts would benefit from a wider range of fonts and colours. :D
 

Dogknox20

Well-Known Member
Right off…It’s NOT me who said “The flesh counts to NOTHING”, it’s Jesus himself (read your Bible). Do you want to believe he never said that??! BUT he did say that … and he said that AFTER he said all those ‘eat my flesh, drink my blood….’, so, go figure!


Second point…..yes, it’s past tense and it’s good to know that you know your grammar, good for you!

The words I have spoken’ is NOT a reference to ‘eat my flesh, drink my blood as you perceived… and how could anyone even believe that LITERALLY, especially AFTER Jesus had made it EXPLICITLY CLEAR that his flesh counts to NOTHING??

The words I have spoken’ is CLEARLY a reference to his preaching and his preaching is ‘full of Spirit and life’. Then, again, isn’t the preaching of ALL prophets is full of Spirit and life too ???

Much of the confusion and the angst of Jesus’ preaching come from the physical symbolism he used. Examples of the physical symbolism Jesus used in his preaching are –
‘I am the bread …..’ (John 6:36)
‘I am the Light ….’ (John 8:12),
‘I am the door…...’ (John 10:9).
-they are ferocious wolves (Matthew 7:15)… and if you are to take these words of physical symbolism LITERALLY, then, you are going to miss the message Jesus was preaching.

You can find physical symbolism all over the OT too, for example,,
- dragon/serpent/snake/monster to refer to Satan or his agency (Isaiah 27:1, Isaiah 30:6, Psalm 74:13-14)
- Beast to refer to kingdom/political power/government (Daniel 7:17, Daniel 7:23)
- Tongue to refer to language or speech (Exodus 4:10)…..

So, it’s not surprising that Jesus too will follow the tradition of the OT (of using physical symbolism) in his preaching… the only problem is, as you have repeatedly proven, even today, in the 21st Century, there are still people who took Jesus’ words of physical symbolism LITERALLY.


Third Point……third point…yes…, the third point… well, it’s a repeat of the ‘Right off…’ point above, isn’t it??


Forth and most important point….. ALL prophets are taught by God and it would be wrong to say otherwise. Most parts of Jesus’ preaching come from the physical symbolism he used which should NOT be taken literally - see the second point above.


God NEVER taught you to eat flesh and drink blood, so, don't put words in God's mouth... and I have told you before the reason the Jews began to argue among themselves just like you are arguing with me now, was because the Jews, like you, took Jesus’ words of physical symbolism LITERALLY!

Christians, like you, may think they believe the words of Jesus, BUT, the more important is - do the Christians, like you, understand the physical symbolic words of Jesus?? Based from your comments which reflect your understanding, they, like you, CLEARLY don’t!

AND you STILL have not answered my questions – if you took Jesus’ words literally, then, do you believe, by eating Jesus’ flesh, you will live forever? Have you drunk deadly poison to prove your faith and belief in Jesus??
.
I reply:
Jesus' Flesh NOW is bread his Blood NOW is wine! The Christian God has taken the form of bread & Wine! Christians recognize Jesus in the Bread and Wine!
Paul is a Christian he warns you of the danger you are in! Paul eats the flesh of Jesus! Literally! Paul recognizes Jesus in the Bread & Wine!
1 CORINTHIANS 11:29 for a person who eats and drinks without recognizing the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself.
JerryMyers Judas rejected the Teaching of Jesus; John 6 ends with Jesus telling us: "Judas is a devil" because he stays with the Christians (Apostles) but rejects what Christians believe! Judas would have been better off if he left Jesus as the other Non-Believers did! Judas is a Hypocrite! Judas stays but does NOT believe the words of Jesus! Judas thinks Jesus is speaking only symbolically!
JerryMyers Your god is not the same god that the Christian has, Paul the Apostle is a Christian. Clearly your god is different our God the Christian God can take the form of a man or a dove or even fire! Our God is SPIRIT & Truth! Our God is almighty he can take on any form he wants to take! Even the form of a Lamb and the form of Bread!
FACT: Eating bread is NOT cannibalism!
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
.
I reply:
Jesus' Flesh NOW is bread his Blood NOW is wine! The Christian God has taken the form of bread & Wine! Christians recognize Jesus in the Bread and Wine!
Paul is a Christian he warns you of the danger you are in! Paul eats the flesh of Jesus! Literally! Paul recognizes Jesus in the Bread & Wine!
1 CORINTHIANS 11:29 for a person who eats and drinks without recognizing the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself.
JerryMyers Judas rejected the Teaching of Jesus; John 6 ends with Jesus telling us: "Judas is a devil" because he stays with the Christians (Apostles) but rejects what Christians believe! Judas would have been better off if he left Jesus as the other Non-Believers did! Judas is a Hypocrite! Judas stays but does NOT believe the words of Jesus! Judas thinks Jesus is speaking only symbolically!
JerryMyers Your god is not the same god that the Christian has, Paul the Apostle is a Christian. Clearly your god is different our God the Christian God can take the form of a man or a dove or even fire! Our God is SPIRIT & Truth! Our God is almighty he can take on any form he wants to take! Even the form of a Lamb and the form of Bread!
FACT: Eating bread is NOT cannibalism!
Yep, and why it's often difficult to explain this to some is because they don't understand the Greek concept of "essence" that's heavily used within the translations of the NT, and also the traditional Jewish use of various forms of symbolism that simply make no sense if taken at the literalistic level.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
.
nPeace I hope all is well..
Back to Jesus' Church built on Peter not on sand.. This means The Church will never fail! Scriptures are very clear.. "Jesus is ALWAYS with the ONLY Church he established to the very end of time"! This means Jesus is still with the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church today.. No other church is Apostolic or Holy (The Body of Christ)

"The Holy Spirit is guiding the Church into all truth FOREVER!"
John 14:16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever
John 16:13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

Being Apostolic the Holy Catholic Church has the authority given to her by Jesus to remove or retain sins..
John 20:21 Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.

Being Apostolic the Holy Catholic Church has the authority given to her by Jesus through the first Shepherd to speak for Jesus in his name!
nPeace I could go on and on.. I just want to make it clear.. Your article about the failing of the Catholic Church is not the end of her; she is Still the body of Jesus today! She still has the Authority of Jesus and still guided by God today into all truth!
The Catholic Church being the Body of Jesus honors our Mother Mary, she is the Mother of the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church the body of Jesus!
Dogknox20 I don't believe you really believe the things you are saying about this church. I think you know better.

However, I could be wrong, but I think the only reason anyone in their right mind would support a religion like the Catholic, is to give an appearance of godliness, while living as they like, imo, because the Catholic church does not hold to Bible standards and teachings. It holds to its own traditions instituted by its papacy.
They even admit it.

The New Catholic Encyclopedia states: “The formulation ‘one God in three Persons’ was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century. But it is precisely this formulation that has first claim to the title the Trinitarian dogma. Among the Apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective.” - (1967), Vol. XIV, p. 299.

“The soul in the O[Id] T[estament] means not a part of man, but the whole man - man as a living being. Similarly, in the N[ew] T[estament] it signifies human life: the life of an individual, conscious subject.” - New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967), Vol. 13, p. 467.

The New Catholic Encyclopedia states: “In the final analysis, the Catholic doctrine on purgatory is based on tradition, not Sacred Scripture.” - Vol. 11, p. 1034.

Concerning the term Sheol, as used in the Bible,
the New Catholic Encyclopedia states:
“In the Bible it designates the place of complete inertia that one goes down to when one dies whether one be just or wicked, rich or poor.” - Vol. 13, p. 170.

The Catholic Encyclopedia says: “Jehovah, the proper name of God in the Old Testament.” - 1910, Vol. VIII, p. 329

So where did all the Catholic doctrines stem from?
Jesus answered... “Isaiah aptly prophesied about you hypocrites, as it is written, ‘This people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far removed from me. It is in vain that they keep worshipping me, for they teach commands of men as doctrines.’ You let go of the commandment of God and cling to the tradition of men.” - Mark 7:6-8 ; John 14:15-21 ; John 15:10

Do you really want to follow Jesus' teachings, or would you rather follow the doctrines of men?
A Christian is a follower of Jesus' teachings and example.
If one is not doing these, one may call themselves Christian, but to Jesus and his disciples, they are not, and cannot enter the kingdom of God, according to the Bible.

Recall what Jesus said of those who allowed themselves to be "taken captive" by wicked men, whom Jesus has no part with.
“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you travel over sea and dry land to make one proselyte, and when he becomes one, you make him a subject for Gehenna twice as much so as yourselves." - Matthew 23:15

So, please be aware that Jesus has no part with such an ungodly apostate "Christian church" which makes up the greater part of the great whore of Babylon.
Remember, the Bible describes her as being "drunk with the wine of her sexual immorality", "the mother of the prostitutes and of the disgusting things of the earth", "drunk with the blood of the holy ones and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus". Revelation 17:1-6
Verses 12 to 18, describes her coming judgment.

According to the scriptures, Jesus warns at Revelation 18:4, 5 “Get out of her, my people, if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues. For her sins have massed together clear up to heaven, and God has called her acts of injustice to mind."

Do you not see it Dogknox20? Is it not clear to you?
I mean, it's not only written in the Bible, it's written in history, and cannot be erased.
For the love of God, there is good reason to believe both.

Horrors of the Roman Catholic Church!
We desire that all peoples subject to Our benign Empire shall live under the same religion that the Divine Peter, the Apostle, gave to the Romans, and which the said religion declares was introduced by himself, and which it is well known that the Pontiff Damascus, and Peter, Bishop of Alexandria, a man of apostolic sanctity, embraced; that is to say, in accordance with the rules of apostolic discipline and the evangelical doctrine, we should believe that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit constitute a single Deity, endowed with equal majesty, and united in the Holy Trinity.

(1) We order all those who follow this law to assume the name of Catholic Christians, and considering others as demented and insane, We order that they shall bear the infamy of heresy; and when the Divine vengeance which they merit has been appeased, they shall afterwards be punished in accordance with Our resentment, which we have acquired from the judgment of Heaven.


torture4.jpg
torture5.jpg


They have even taken their torture to little children, it seems.
More than 1,100 unmarked graves linked to Catholic Church atrocities discovered in Canada
This is yet another dark reminder of the horrible history of the Catholic Church, and these atrocities were committed in just one country.


Do you really agree with, and support this "authority"?
I think people can see with much clarity that they share in being responsible for the blood of the witnesses of Jesus. So contrary to your view, it is evident the RCC is against Jesus... and he against them.
Hats off to men like John Wycliffe.

I don't think you are dreaming, so are you fooling yourself... delusional? :shrug:
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
.
I reply:
Jesus' Flesh NOW is bread his Blood NOW is wine! The Christian God has taken the form of bread & Wine! Christians recognize Jesus in the Bread and Wine!
Paul is a Christian he warns you of the danger you are in! Paul eats the flesh of Jesus! Literally! Paul recognizes Jesus in the Bread & Wine!
1 CORINTHIANS 11:29 for a person who eats and drinks without recognizing the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself.
JerryMyers Judas rejected the Teaching of Jesus; John 6 ends with Jesus telling us: "Judas is a devil" because he stays with the Christians (Apostles) but rejects what Christians believe! Judas would have been better off if he left Jesus as the other Non-Believers did! Judas is a Hypocrite! Judas stays but does NOT believe the words of Jesus! Judas thinks Jesus is speaking only symbolically!
JerryMyers Your god is not the same god that the Christian has, Paul the Apostle is a Christian. Clearly your god is different our God the Christian God can take the form of a man or a dove or even fire! Our God is SPIRIT & Truth! Our God is almighty he can take on any form he wants to take! Even the form of a Lamb and the form of Bread!
FACT: Eating bread is NOT cannibalism!
Yes. That pretty much describes the "Christian" God - the one they themselves invented. Definitely not the one Jesus spoke of.
Why this form of idolatry? How can it benefit one Dogknox20? Can you explain.
 

Dogknox20

Well-Known Member
Yep, and why it's often difficult to explain this to some is because they don't understand the Greek concept of "essence" that's heavily used within the translations of the NT, and also the traditional Jewish use of various forms of symbolism that simply make no sense if taken at the literalistic level.
.
metis I hope all is well... It is raining here.. It's a dreary dull, bleak, and lifeless; depressing kind of day! :(
I agree... They will get it or they won't!

Looks as bread.. Feels as bread ..Tastes as bread .. Smells as bread .. right down to the microscopic level it is bread.. God does everything perfectly: God takes the form of bread so he is bread! Same as when he took the form of a man! He could have snapped his fingers and arrived as a man.. But again he does everything perfectly can't die as a man if first not born as a man! NO ONE..

metis no one can accuse God of being second in anything he does!
What is all comes down to is "Faith"! Faith ALONE It's trusting the words of Jesus as true; It's Believing in Jesus! Jesus tells Nicodemus John 3:16 ... all who believe in Him will have eternal life! & God sent his Son to us Whoever believes in him is not condemned, & 34 For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit. &. 36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life,
metis Believing in Jesus is having FAITH in the words of Jesus!
Rejecting the True Manna is saying "I don't have Faith In Jesus"! THEY SAY...
metis they say; "I have Faith in Jesus" then they turn around and reject the words of Jesus!
 

Dogknox20

Well-Known Member
Dogknox20 I don't believe you really believe the things you are saying about this church. I think you know better.

However, I could be wrong, but I think the only reason anyone in their right mind would support a religion like the Catholic, is to give an appearance of godliness, while living as they like, imo, because the Catholic church does not hold to Bible standards and teachings. It holds to its own traditions instituted by its papacy.
They even admit it.


They have even taken their torture to little children, it seems.
More than 1,100 unmarked graves linked to Catholic Church atrocities discovered in Canada
This is yet another dark reminder of the horrible history of the Catholic Church, and these atrocities were committed in just one country.


Do you really agree with, and support this "authority"?
I think people can see with much clarity that they share in being responsible for the blood of the witnesses of Jesus. So contrary to your view, it is evident the RCC is against Jesus... and he against them.
Hats off to men like John Wycliffe.

I don't think you are dreaming, so are you fooling yourself... delusional? :shrug:

nPeace I hope all is well...
You say you are "A Follower of Christ"! That would imply you are Christian!
You said..
However, I could be wrong, but I think the only reason anyone in their right mind would support a religion like the Catholic, is to give an appearance of godliness, while living as they like, imo, because the Catholic church does not hold to Bible standards and teachings. It holds to its own traditions instituted by its papacy.
They even admit it
.
I reply..
Right off I must point out it was the one and ONLY Holy Catholic Church that gave the world her bible! Toss your bible out of your stinking bathroom window if you reject the authority of the Catholic Church.. HOW..

nPeace
how can you trust your bible is accurate inspired words of God if you reject the AUTHORITY of the Church that put it all together!? You can't!
The One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church Jesus established on ROCK (Not on sand) made the bible with the help of the Holy Spirit she decided the truly inspired words of God from the hundred of phony letters kicking around at the time. NO ONE..

nPeace no one knew what was truly inspired words of God from the many hundred of phony ones for the first 400 years there was NO bible; the Holy Church came before the bible! It's the Bible of the Church not the Church of the bible! The Church closed the Canon with 73 books... Martin Luther had 73 books in his bible, the first bible printed had 73 books (The Gutenberg Bible)! It was the De-Formers; those men that rejected Jesus' Holy Body that took out books from the bible! You now have 66 books in your bible because these people PROTESTING Jesus and his Bride removed them!
You make accusations and post atrocities claiming it was the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church that did them! To this I say you are WRONG! The Catholic Church is full to the rafters with sinners over 1 1/4 billion Catholic that is BILLION Catholics in the world... Truly Universal because God is Universal, Holy because God is Holy, One because there is ONE God and Apostolic because the Church was established on the Apostles!
Full to the rafters with sinners because these Billion need saving! NOT like you; clearly you are NOT a sinner you don't need saving! The Church is HOLY all those many Catholics are sinners every one! You say the Church did these atrocities if you looked into it you would find it was PEOPLE that did them! People for their own personal gain did them! FACT: The reason today you are NOT a Muslim is because of the Spanish inquisition! History points out; millions of Muslims were sweeping up into Spain from African, taking over Spain and then moving north into the rest of Europe! They were driven out by Catholics.. None other!
nPeace You reject the scriptures.. You have to reject the words of God as lies or you would be Catholic! You reject the words of God.. "I AM with you Always to the end of Time"!
Jesus started with his Holy Church he is STILL with her today!
You reject.. The Church Jesus established is Holy, you also reject that Jesus died for his Church, that Jesus LOVES his Church & That the Church is BLAMELESS!
25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.
You MUST reject the words of God to believe what you do! AS IF...

nPeace
as if Satan had some how overpowered Jesus and Satan TOOK the Church; the Body of Jesus from Jesus!? You now have been taught that your Church MUST come to God' rescue and re-FORM what Jesus lost! As if all Jesus said was a lie; you are forced to reject the words of God! ROCK not sand is the foundation of the Catholic Church! To say Jesus' Church failed is to call Jesus a fool!
But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand.
 

Dogknox20

Well-Known Member
Yes. That pretty much describes the "Christian" God - the one they themselves invented. Definitely not the one Jesus spoke of.
Why this form of idolatry? How can it benefit one Dogknox20? Can you explain.
.
nPeace Simply.. The word Communion comes from the root word.. means "Communicate"! To communicate with symbols is called "Idolatry!" I warn you.. Every time you have Communion with bread it is Idolatry!
The Catholic is in Communion with Jesus his LIVING Forever Body nourishes my spirit! Jesus shares his LIFE with me!
nPeace I have his can't die, living fore eternity body inside of Me!

John 17:21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.
nPeace you had better reread the verse (above) again!

I was ADDED to the Body of Jesus by my baptism.. I was IMMERSED into his body!
40 With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.” 41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.

Do you see it.. 3000 were ADDED to the body of Jesus by baptism!

I am IN Jesus because I was IMMERSE into him I remain in Jesus by consuming him!
55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
However, I could be wrong, but I think the only reason anyone in their right mind would support a religion like the Catholic
Real quick as I gotta go shortly, the Catholic Church is not a "religion"-- it's a Christian denomination.

the Catholic, is to give an appearance of godliness, while living as they like, imo, because the Catholic church does not hold to Bible standards and teachings. It holds to its own traditions instituted by its papacy.
It's "amazing that you are so willing to make a blanket condemnation of Catholics as if we're all the same. That is "intellectual dishonesty" on steroids, as Catholics in general are very diverse.

So, please be aware that Jesus has no part with such an ungodly apostate "Christian church" which makes up the greater part of the great whore of Babylon.
Oh, we've heard that nonsensical mantra so many time before, which is completely illogical since it would make Jesus out to be a liar, or at least wrong, when he said he would guide his Church and provide us a Paraclete. There's no other Church that this can apply to since his promise was to the Church that he and the Apostles created that has now existed for almost 2000 years.

And. logically, why would Jesus create this Church and then let it disintegrate? All he did then would be in vain, and you wouldn't have the Bible that we all use as that also is from the Church Jesus created. Christianity was clearly not to be some sort of loosy-goosy do-you-own-thingy.

Therefore, maybe check on your own morals before judging everyone else's. So, between stereotyping us and then making a mockery of what Jesus promised, that pretty much says it all, nPeace.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
nPeace I hope all is well...
You say you are "A Follower of Christ"! That would imply you are Christian!
You said..
However, I could be wrong, but I think the only reason anyone in their right mind would support a religion like the Catholic, is to give an appearance of godliness, while living as they like, imo, because the Catholic church does not hold to Bible standards and teachings. It holds to its own traditions instituted by its papacy.
They even admit it
.
I reply..
Right off I must point out it was the one and ONLY Holy Catholic Church that gave the world her bible! Toss your bible out of your stinking bathroom window if you reject the authority of the Catholic Church.. HOW..
I don't have a stinking bathroom window... and I see no reason for tossing my Bible anywhere.
Does not the KJV contain spurious texts?
That might be one to toss, but I would not recommend that before you get an accurate transaction.

nPeace how can you trust your bible is accurate inspired words of God if you reject the AUTHORITY of the Church that put it all together!? You can't!
The One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church Jesus established on ROCK (Not on sand) made the bible with the help of the Holy Spirit she decided the truly inspired words of God from the hundred of phony letters kicking around at the time. NO ONE..
You keep making that claim, but neither the Bible, nor history supports such a claim.
On what basis then, do you make that claim?

nPeace no one knew what was truly inspired words of God from the many hundred of phony ones for the first 400 years there was NO bible; the Holy Church came before the bible! It's the Bible of the Church not the Church of the bible! The Church closed the Canon with 73 books... Martin Luther had 73 books in his bible, the first bible printed had 73 books (The Gutenberg Bible)! It was the De-Formers; those men that rejected Jesus' Holy Body that took out books from the bible! You now have 66 books in your bible because these people PROTESTING Jesus and his Bride removed them!
You make accusations and post atrocities claiming it was the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church that did them! To this I say you are WRONG! The Catholic Church is full to the rafters with sinners over 1 1/4 billion Catholic that is BILLION Catholics in the world... Truly Universal because God is Universal, Holy because God is Holy, One because there is ONE God and Apostolic because the Church was established on the Apostles!
Full to the rafters with sinners because these Billion need saving! NOT like you; clearly you are NOT a sinner you don't need saving! The Church is HOLY all those many Catholics are sinners every one! You say the Church did these atrocities if you looked into it you would find it was PEOPLE that did them! People for their own personal gain did them! FACT: The reason today you are NOT a Muslim is because of the Spanish inquisition! History points out; millions of Muslims were sweeping up into Spain from African, taking over Spain and then moving north into the rest of Europe! They were driven out by Catholics.. None other!
nPeace You reject the scriptures.. You have to reject the words of God as lies or you would be Catholic! You reject the words of God.. "I AM with you Always to the end of Time"!
Jesus started with his Holy Church he is STILL with her today!
You reject.. The Church Jesus established is Holy, you also reject that Jesus died for his Church, that Jesus LOVES his Church & That the Church is BLAMELESS!
25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.
You MUST reject the words of God to believe what you do! AS IF...

nPeace
as if Satan had some how overpowered Jesus and Satan TOOK the Church; the Body of Jesus from Jesus!? You now have been taught that your Church MUST come to God' rescue and re-FORM what Jesus lost! As if all Jesus said was a lie; you are forced to reject the words of God! ROCK not sand is the foundation of the Catholic Church! To say Jesus' Church failed is to call Jesus a fool!
But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand.
On the one hand, you say the church cannot be blamed for the atrocities, but rather, individual sinners.
Then on the other hand, you give full credit to the church for good deeds, like making the Bible available.
Why credit the church with only what is good, but credit bad to individuals only? Does that not amount to hypocrisy ?

Was it not the work of different individuals, who made the Bible available?
For example, the Hebrew scriptures were preserved long before Catholicism raised its ugly head.
There is Sirach
Sirach provides evidence of a collection of sacred scripture similar to portions of the Hebrew Bible. The book, which dates from 180 BCE (and is not included in the Jewish canon), includes a list of names of biblical figures (44–49) in the same order as is found in the Torah and the Nevi'im (Prophets), and which includes the names of some men mentioned in the Ketuvim (Writings). Based on this list of names, some scholars have conjectured that the author, Yeshua ben Sira, had access to, and considered authoritative, the books of Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Joshua, Judges, Samuel, Kings, Job, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and the Twelve Minor Prophets.

The Septuagint (Greek Old Testament) was completed by the 2nd century BCE, and are in acccofd with the Dead Sea Scrolls.
What is noteworthy, is that some individuals "ascribed divine inspiration to its translators". In other words, they felt that God was involved in having these books preserved. Which is interesting.

Greek scriptures were in wide use during the Second Temple period, because few people could read Hebrew at that time. The text of the Greek Old Testament is quoted more often than the original Hebrew Bible text in the Greek New Testament (particularly the Pauline epistles) by the Apostolic Fathers, and later by the Greek Church Fathers.

So how did we get this Greek copy into our many languages today?
Thomson's Translation
Charles Thomson's translation of the bible is a direct translation of the Greek Septuagint version of the Old Testament into English, rare for its time. The work took 19 years to complete and was originally published in 1808. Thomson is credited with having created the work with little to no help from other scholars. Charles Thomson was a Greek scholar, and before the American Revolution, had been a teacher at several prominent schools. Thomson's translation of the entire Greek Bible, excluding the Apocrypha, was published in one thousand sets of four volumes each, the fourth volume being Thomson's translation of the New Testament in that same year. The printer was Jane Aitken of Philadelphia.

I see nothing there about the Catholic Church.
In fact, in this list, there is mention of individual efforts. No credit is given to the Catholic Church.
Even the KJV is credited to an individual.

To further demonstrate that, consider again, John Wycliffe.
Wycliffe advocated translation of the Bible into the common vernacular. According to tradition, Wycliffe is said to have completed a translation directly from the Vulgate into Middle English – a version now known as Wycliffe's Bible.

He used the Latin Vulgate, a translation the Catholics claim their own, but Wycliffe was opposed by the Catholic church.
In fact...
The Council of Constance declared Wycliffe a heretic on 4 May 1415, and banned his writings, effectively both excommunicating him retroactively and making him an early forerunner of Protestantism. The Council decreed that Wycliffe's works should be burned and his bodily remains removed from consecrated ground. This order, confirmed by Pope Martin V, was carried out in 1428. Wycliffe's corpse was exhumed and burned and the ashes cast into the River Swift, which flows through Lutterworth.

All of this shows that it was not the efforts of the Roman Catholic church, that made the Bible available to the world. It was rather, dedicated individuals who loved God's word, and who wanted people to benefit from it, even at the risk of their life.

Something else you may want to note, is that there are translations today, based off of manuscripts, including the Septuagint.

To note too, of most importance, is the fact that, as it is God's word, God is the one preserving his word. So it really doesn't matter whom he uses to preserve it.
Say it fell into "the wrong hands", God can move anyone to act contrary to what they might intend to do. He did this on many occasions.

He even uses an individual who is in "the wrong place". For example, Rahab - a Canaanite - hid the spies because she knew they were God's people, and she had faith. Likewise, he used individuals in apostate Christianity, to preserve his word. Thus God is credited with making his word available to all people. His witnesses too make themselves available to help sincere people.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
.
nPeace Simply.. The word Communion comes from the root word.. means "Communicate"! To communicate with symbols is called "Idolatry!" I warn you.. Every time you have Communion with bread it is Idolatry!
The Catholic is in Communion with Jesus his LIVING Forever Body nourishes my spirit! Jesus shares his LIFE with me!
nPeace I have his can't die, living fore eternity body inside of Me!

John 17:21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.
nPeace you had better reread the verse (above) again!

I was ADDED to the Body of Jesus by my baptism.. I was IMMERSED into his body!
40 With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.” 41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.

Do you see it.. 3000 were ADDED to the body of Jesus by baptism!

I am IN Jesus because I was IMMERSE into him I remain in Jesus by consuming him!
55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me.
Why do you think you are in Jesus? What makes you think he is one with you? Do you have anything to show this? The followers of Christ give evidence of their recommendation. Do you have any to show?
 

Dogknox20

Well-Known Member
Why do you think you are in Jesus? What makes you think he is one with you? Do you have anything to show this? The followers of Christ give evidence of their recommendation. Do you have any to show?

nPeace I was Baptized into the Holy Body of Jesus!
I was re-Born by the waters of Baptism.. Baptism IMMERSED me into the Holy Body of Jesus! Thus I am IN Jesus! I know I am IN Jesus because I was baptized.. I KNOW Jesus is IN Me because I eat his living forever flesh!
The evidence is in eating his holy flesh!

You might have been baptized (I don't know) but you did not remain IN Jesus!
56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them.
The difference between Me "A Christian" and you is that I believe the words of Jesus.. I am a Christ Follower!

Jesus said.. "I AM with you ALWAYS to the end of time"! These are the words of God.. I believe his words; Jesus is STILL to this day with the ONLY Church he established on ROCK!
You think Jesus built on sand... You are saying Jesus is a Fool! Fools build on sand NOT on ROCK!
The One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church Jesus established before he ascended will never fail! Just as Jesus promised just as the scriptures tell you!
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
For example, the Hebrew scriptures were preserved long before Catholicism raised its ugly head.
If there's any doubt about you pathetic bigotry, the statement of yours above should settle that once and for all.

The Septuagint (Greek Old Testament) was completed by the 2nd century BCE, and are in acccofd with the Dead Sea Scrolls.
You miss the point in that there were around 2000 OT-style books, according to Anglican theologian William Barkley, and neither the Christian nor the Jewish canon was yet chosen by that date you mention above. The Jewish canon was finalized during the 1st century c.e., and the Christian canon wasn't chosen until the 4th century c.e. and that was by the Church you say had already "raised its ugly head". Of the NT-style books, there were roughly around 1000 books to chose from according to Barkley, and it took almost half a century to complete.

All of this shows that it was not the efforts of the Roman Catholic church, that made the Bible available to the world. It was rather, dedicated individuals who loved God's word, and who wanted people to benefit from it, even at the risk of their life.
That was done significantly later, and the irony is they basically used the books in the Vulgate anyway, minus the Apocryphal.

It's too bad that you are so hate-filled whereas Jesus taught us to "love one another as I have loved you". But then as Gandhi said, "All too many Christians elevated the man and forgot his message".
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Why do you think you are in Jesus? What makes you think he is one with you? Do you have anything to show this? The followers of Christ give evidence of their recommendation. Do you have any to show?
What ever happened to "judge ye not..." that Jesus taught us?
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
nPeace I was Baptized into the Holy Body of Jesus!
I was re-Born by the waters of Baptism.. Baptism IMMERSED me into the Holy Body of Jesus! Thus I am IN Jesus! I know I am IN Jesus because I was baptized.. I KNOW Jesus is IN Me because I eat his living forever flesh!
The evidence is in eating his holy flesh!

You might have been baptized (I don't know) but you did not remain IN Jesus!
56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them.
The difference between Me "A Christian" and you is that I believe the words of Jesus.. I am a Christ Follower!

Jesus said.. "I AM with you ALWAYS to the end of time"! These are the words of God.. I believe his words; Jesus is STILL to this day with the ONLY Church he established on ROCK!
You think Jesus built on sand... You are saying Jesus is a Fool! Fools build on sand NOT on ROCK!
The One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church Jesus established before he ascended will never fail! Just as Jesus promised just as the scriptures tell you!
Did Jesus say those words to you?
Are you not mistaken as you are with Jesus' reference to "this rock"?
 

JerryMyers

Active Member
.I reply:
Jesus' Flesh NOW is bread his Blood NOW is wine! The Christian God has taken the form of bread & Wine! Christians recognize Jesus in the Bread and Wine!
Paul is a Christian he warns you of the danger you are in! Paul eats the flesh of Jesus! Literally! Paul recognizes Jesus in the Bread & Wine!
1 CORINTHIANS 11:29 for a person who eats and drinks without recognizing the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself.
Huh???! What exactly have you replied to when in reality you are NOT replying, BUT you are just rambling about your twisted belief without any scriptural evidence!

Where does it say or imply in your whole Bible that God ‘has taken the form of bread & Wine!’ ???! Is that something you want to believe as truth, therefore, in your mind, it’s the truth?? Sorry, it does NOT work that way – the truth is NOT what man wants to believe, truth is what God said and what His prophet, Jesus said OR did NOT say!

So, if you want to convince people to accept what you believe, then, back up your claims by quoting what God or His prophet, Jesus said and then explain those verses in their proper context as to why those verses you quoted support your claims – can you do that… instead of rambling nonsense ?? And how can you said ‘I reply:’ when you have ignored the fact that Jesus said his flesh counts to NOTHING???!

Burying your head in the sand and wishing Jesus did not say the flesh counts to NOTHING don’t change the fact that Jesus DID say his flesh counts to NOTHING! YOU are just delusional!

.JerryMyers Judas rejected the Teaching of Jesus; John 6 ends with Jesus telling us: "Judas is a devil" because he stays with the Christians (Apostles) but rejects what Christians believe! Judas would have been better off if he left Jesus as the other Non-Believers did! Judas is a Hypocrite! Judas stays but does NOT believe the words of Jesus! Judas thinks Jesus is speaking only symbolically!
What has Judas got to do with your twisted belief that ‘one must eat Jesus’ flesh and drink his blood? Don’t put your spin into the scripture as nowhere in your whole Bible did it say Judas rejected the words of Jesus - you are just assuming he did. Judas betrayed Jesus was NOT because he rejected Jesus (else how can he be one of the selected apostles?), BUT, it’s his greed that made him accepted 30 silver pieces to betray Jesus – see Matthew 26:14-16.

You said Judas is a hypocrite, but your rambling of nonsense WITHOUT any logical and rational explanation and proofs from the scripture tells me you are a hypocrite too!

JerryMyers Your god is not the same god that the Christian has, Paul the Apostle is a Christian. Clearly your god is different our God the Christian God can take the form of a man or a dove or even fire! Our God is SPIRIT & Truth! Our God is almighty he can take on any form he wants to take! Even the form of a Lamb and the form of Bread!
Well, Jesus himself had never heard of the term ‘Christian’, let alone, what it means. Jesus never called his disciples ‘Christians’, so, don’t try to make the term ‘Christian’ as if it’s a holy term that originated from Jesus, it is NOT!

So what if Paul is a Christian?? The term ‘Christian’ is probably coined up by Paul himself in Antioch – “Then Barnabas went to Tarsus to look for Saul, and when he found him, he brought him to Antioch. So for a whole year Barnabas and Saul met with the church and taught great numbers of people. The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch” – Acts 11:25-26

Paul appointed himself as an apostle and his preaching is highly likely inspired by the impostor ‘Jesus’ he met on that wilderness road to Damascus. Didn’t Jesus warn his disciples of deceivers and impostors who will come after he’s gone claiming they are the Messiah/Christ?? There’s no record in the Bible of anyone else who came after Jesus was gone claiming he’s the Messiah/Christ EXCEPT that ‘Jesus’ whom Paul met on that wilderness road to Damascus. Think about it !!

FACT: Eating bread is NOT cannibalism!
You either don’t read well or you just ignore the comments of others responding to your posts.
FACT: No one is saying eating bread is cannibalism!! Since it’s clear you are too lazy to look up the definition of cannibalism, so, here it is – cannibalism is ‘the practice of eating the flesh of one own species’ (Merriam-Webster Dictionary) – so is the bread the same species as a man??? So, stop making ridiculous so-called ‘fact’ again!!!

…AND you STILL have not answered my questions – if you took Jesus’ words literally, then, do you believe, by eating Jesus’ flesh, you will live forever? Have you drunk deadly poison to prove your faith and belief in Jesus??
 
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Dogknox20

Well-Known Member
Did Jesus say those words to you?
Are you not mistaken as you are with Jesus' reference to "this rock"?
.
The Holy Church was empowered to Make "God' Children" at Pentecost..
Peter ADDED 3000 people to the Body of Jesus the first day.. BY Baptism!
Baptism IMMERSES people INTO the Body of Jesus; "God' ONLY Son"! 3000 were made God' Children by the actions of Peter.. TO BE...

nPeace
to be called "God' Child" you MUST be in the body of Jesus!

Baptism makes DISCIPLES!
Matthew 28:19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing ..

Jesus is the Brother of the DISCIPLES! IF...

nPeace
if Jesus was your brother then God would be your father.. It is just this simple! If Jesus was your Brother then you would be in God' family, Mary would be your Mother. You would honor Mary as the Father Commands "Honor your father & MOTHER"! Catholic have ALWAYS honored Mary as the Scripture Prophesy tells you!
Jesus is ALWAYS with the ONLY Church he established.. The One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church!
20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.

nPeace Clearly Jesus cannot be with your man made Church, it was NOT around when Jesus said he would NOT leave the Catholic Church!
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
The key fact, surely, is that the name Peter means rock and was given to Simon by Jesus, saying that on this rock he would build his church..................
Then, I wonder why Peter himself did Not view himself as The Rock - 1 Peter 2:4-8.
Peter believed Jesus was the foretold foundation or 'cornerstone' chosen by God Himself.
Paul places Jesus' position as the foundation or spiritual rock - 1 Corinthians 3:11; 1 Corinthians 10:4; Ephesians 2:20
Peter was given the keys to the kingdom. Keys to unlock the way for:
First the Jews, then the Samaritans, and finally unlock the way for the gentile people of the nations.
But that did Not make Peter as being in Jesus' position. 1 Corinthians 3:11
Any thoughts about that ' the Rock ' meant Christ at 1 Corinthians 10:4 B____________________
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
.
The Holy Church was empowered to Make "God' Children" at Pentecost..
Peter ADDED 3000 people to the Body of Jesus the first day.. BY Baptism!
Baptism IMMERSES people INTO the Body of Jesus; "God' ONLY Son"! 3000 were made God' Children by the actions of Peter.............
nPeace
Clearly Jesus cannot be with your man made Church, it was NOT around when Jesus said he would NOT leave the Catholic Church!

Yes, those first-century Christians were empowered at Pentecost....
Yes, baptism immerses (Not sprinkles) but completely immerses in water at baptism.
I find neither Catholic or Universal congregation mentioned in Scripture.
But I do find a warning by gospel writer Luke at Acts of the Apostles 20:29-30.
That ties in with Jesus' illustration about the genuine ' wheat ' and the fake ' weed/tares ' Christians.
MANY would call Jesus as Lord but prove false - Matthew 7:21-23
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
On the one hand, you say the church cannot be blamed for the atrocities, but rather, individual sinners.
Then on the other hand, you give full credit to the church for good deeds, like making the Bible available.
Why credit the church with only what is good, but credit bad to individuals only? Does that not amount to hypocrisy ? Was it not the work of different individuals, who made the Bible available?
For example, the Hebrew scriptures were preserved long before Catholicism raised its ugly head.
There is Sirach
Sirach provides evidence of a collection of sacred scripture similar to portions of the Hebrew Bible. The book, which dates from 180 BCE (and is not included in the Jewish canon), includes a list of names of biblical figures (44–49) in the same order as is found in the Torah and the Nevi'im (Prophets), and which includes the names of some men mentioned in the Ketuvim (Writings). Based on this list of names, some scholars have conjectured that the author, Yeshua ben Sira, had access to, and considered authoritative, the books of Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Joshua, Judges, Samuel, Kings, Job, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and the Twelve Minor Prophets.









The Septuagint (Greek Old Testament) was completed by the 2nd century BCE, and are in acccofd with the Dead Sea Scrolls.
What is noteworthy, is that some individuals "ascribed divine inspiration to its translators". In other words, they felt that God was involved in having these books preserved. Which is interesting.

Greek scriptures were in wide use during the Second Temple period, because few people could read Hebrew at that time. The text of the Greek Old Testament is quoted more often than the original Hebrew Bible text in the Greek New Testament (particularly the Pauline epistles) by the Apostolic Fathers, and later by the Greek Church Fathers.

So how did we get this Greek copy into our many languages today?
Thomson's Translation
Charles Thomson's translation of the bible is a direct translation of the Greek Septuagint version of the Old Testament into English, rare for its time. The work took 19 years to complete and was originally published in 1808. Thomson is credited with having created the work with little to no help from other scholars. Charles Thomson was a Greek scholar, and before the American Revolution, had been a teacher at several prominent schools. Thomson's translation of the entire Greek Bible, excluding the Apocrypha, was published in one thousand sets of four volumes each, the fourth volume being Thomson's translation of the New Testament in that same year. The printer was Jane Aitken of Philadelphia.

I see nothing there about the Catholic Church.
In fact, in this list, there is mention of individual efforts. No credit is given to the Catholic Church.
Even the KJV is credited to an individual.

To further demonstrate that, consider again, John Wycliffe.
Wycliffe advocated translation of the Bible into the common vernacular. According to tradition, Wycliffe is said to have completed a translation directly from the Vulgate into Middle English – a version now known as Wycliffe's Bible.

He used the Latin Vulgate, a translation the Catholics claim their own, but Wycliffe was opposed by the Catholic church.
In fact...
The Council of Constance declared Wycliffe a heretic on 4 May 1415, and banned his writings, effectively both excommunicating him retroactively and making him an early forerunner of Protestantism. The Council decreed that Wycliffe's works should be burned and his bodily remains removed from consecrated ground. This order, confirmed by Pope Martin V, was carried out in 1428. Wycliffe's corpse was exhumed and burned and the ashes cast into the River Swift, which flows through Lutterworth.

All of this shows that it was not the efforts of the Roman Catholic church, that made the Bible available to the world. It was rather, dedicated individuals who loved God's word, and who wanted people to benefit from it, even at the risk of their life.

Something else you may want to note, is that there are translations today, based off of manuscripts, including the Septuagint.

To note too, of most importance, is the fact that, as it is God's word, God is the one preserving his word. So it really doesn't matter whom he uses to preserve it.
Say it fell into "the wrong hands", God can move anyone to act contrary to what they might intend to do. He did this on many occasions.

He even uses an individual who is in "the wrong place". For example, Rahab - a Canaanite - hid the spies because she knew they were God's people, and she had faith. Likewise, he used individuals in apostate Christianity, to preserve his word. Thus God is credited with making his word available to all people. His witnesses too make themselves available to help sincere people.

First, I find the Holy Scriptures were completed by gospel writer John at the very end of the first century.
That means what was written in year 180 is: spurious.
For example: Please notice Sirach 25:23 because it blames women ... and because of her (Eve) we all die.
Whereas the Bible squarely places the blame on: Adam - Romans chapter 5.
 
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