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What is the OT?
- Thread starter Rex
- Start date
#1 is pretty darn untrue, especially with regard to the Pentateuch. How can someone not call it a guide to living when there are all the mitzvot there, showing Jews how to live?
#2 depends on whether you accept the authority of Paul or that of Jesus. Jesus said in Matthew that not one letter would pass away from the old Jewish law. Paul said that Jesus became a curse and lifted the curse of the law. I know that growing up Christian, I had to study a LOT of Old Testament. It's definitely not irrelevant to Christians.
#2 depends on whether you accept the authority of Paul or that of Jesus. Jesus said in Matthew that not one letter would pass away from the old Jewish law. Paul said that Jesus became a curse and lifted the curse of the law. I know that growing up Christian, I had to study a LOT of Old Testament. It's definitely not irrelevant to Christians.
It sounds like a mainstream Christian interpretation of the place of the OT in Christianity. I think some fundamentalists put much more emphasis on the OT as a contemporary guide to behavior than do mainstream Christians. Of course, I could be wrong about that.
ALOT of the OT is the history of the nation of Israel.
There is also the law, which Jesus fulfilled, the people were going so much by the word of the law they forgot the spirit, Jesus restored the spirit of the law.,
There is also the law, which Jesus fulfilled, the people were going so much by the word of the law they forgot the spirit, Jesus restored the spirit of the law.,
To a five year old in Jerusalem the Tanach is an Alpha bet book, an arithmatic book, history book, a book of prophesy, a total education. They study till the bar mitzvah and he becomes a son of the commandment. Some continue till about thirty to become a Rabbi, there is still more to learn.
This is the history of the Rabbi Yeshua ben Joseph, around thirty ihis young Hebrew scholar began his teaching of the people, he live the Tanach to the full. He told his followers to follow him. Did he mean it? Yes and he raised up another young Hebrew Rabbi, who had made it his mission to ferret out all of the followers of this Yeshua and arrest them and flog them in Jerusalem.
This young Rabbi had an experience on the way to Damascus, where he met this Yeshua, got a little good news and changed his attitude and became the apostle to the Gentiles, He said to imitate him as he imitated Yeshua.
So you see the one who thought the Tanach was only a history book, is DEAD WRONG! The Tanach is alive and well and was NEVER Nailed to the cross. The only thing nailed to the cross was the Col 2:14 having blotted out the handwriting in the ordinances that is against us, that was contrary to us, and he hath taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross; Which is the records of my offences against the Torah of God.
Christian believers learn just enough to be SAVED. This is GOOD, but not as GOOD AS IT GETS.
Christians are misled into false teachings.
Read Rev.22 :14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. NKJV
Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and that they may enter the city by the gates.RSV
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.AV
If this sounds like no LAWLESS Christian will enter the Holy City, you have read it on the Pashat level. And yes that is what it means.
This is the history of the Rabbi Yeshua ben Joseph, around thirty ihis young Hebrew scholar began his teaching of the people, he live the Tanach to the full. He told his followers to follow him. Did he mean it? Yes and he raised up another young Hebrew Rabbi, who had made it his mission to ferret out all of the followers of this Yeshua and arrest them and flog them in Jerusalem.
This young Rabbi had an experience on the way to Damascus, where he met this Yeshua, got a little good news and changed his attitude and became the apostle to the Gentiles, He said to imitate him as he imitated Yeshua.
So you see the one who thought the Tanach was only a history book, is DEAD WRONG! The Tanach is alive and well and was NEVER Nailed to the cross. The only thing nailed to the cross was the Col 2:14 having blotted out the handwriting in the ordinances that is against us, that was contrary to us, and he hath taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross; Which is the records of my offences against the Torah of God.
Christian believers learn just enough to be SAVED. This is GOOD, but not as GOOD AS IT GETS.
Christians are misled into false teachings.
Read Rev.22 :14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. NKJV
Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and that they may enter the city by the gates.RSV
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.AV
If this sounds like no LAWLESS Christian will enter the Holy City, you have read it on the Pashat level. And yes that is what it means.
chuck010342
Active Member
yes there is validity. But if you have a problem with the OT its not the Jews you have a problem with but God. Timothy says that "all scripture is God-breathed"
fromthe heart
Well-Known Member
I still think the Old Testament has a place...I don't see how it's laws don't apply to today...I think some New Testament churches would like not to have to give any attention to the ot but I think to get the most out of the Bible and to live as God wants us to we must give both great consideration as being important.Rex_Admin said:
fromthe heart
Well-Known Member
There is so much but I'll just touch on 2 for me as a christian...the moral laws and laws of sexual morality found in Leviticus chapter 18...and God's law found in the old testament. I don't know why the old testament wouldn't be used by christians....it describes what idolatry is, it describes ALL of what the New Testament speaks of...Just because Jesus came doesn't mean all the laws of God are null and void to me. Things are explained in detail in the old testament so you can better understand the new testament and why Jesus came and what His coming has meant for all who believe...I just don't think the New Testament can stand alone without the old testament. When I was small I was given a copy of just the New Testament...a lot didn't make sense to me untill I used the Old Testament with it.Rex_Admin said:
t3gah
Well-Known Member
Perhaps one must think about just who had the scriptures penned to begin with, God. Calling the Hebrew scriptures Old when the commandments came from God isn't really correct. Calling the Greek scriptures New also isn't correct since again God's standards are stated throughout. Jesus even quoted from the Law. Also, Paul did and the disciple Stephen spoke of the history of the Jews before he was stoned to death.
Check out the scriptures the apostle Paul wrote:
(2 Timothy 3:14-17)
14 You, however, continue in the things you have learned and become convinced of, knowing from whom you have learned them, 15 and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
[size=-1]16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; [/size]17 so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.
Check out the scriptures the apostle Paul wrote:
(2 Timothy 3:14-17)
14 You, however, continue in the things you have learned and become convinced of, knowing from whom you have learned them, 15 and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
[size=-1]16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; [/size]17 so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.
chuck010342
Active Member
Ronald said:
The reference to the OT that the question brought up is in question as to its morality to today.
I'm saying that the OT is extremely useful for today and is eternal. Jesus said " I have not come to destroy the law or the prophets but to fulfill them."
Then the major problem is in the way you as a Christian say fulfill means! If fulfill is to do them perfectly and not to make them nul and void, then Christians would be Law abiding with the aid of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Yeshua's Commands are not greivous!chuck010342 said:
To most of the mainline Christian denominations, the Tanach was nailed to the cross.Rex_Admin said:
They believe they are forgiven of their Past, Present and Future sins, it is impossible for them to sin. They are saved by the grace of God. Then if one turns from grace to do one commandment, he is liable to obey them all and has fallen from grace. The Old Testament for them is moot.
Now! Do you get it??? They're wrong! But this is their belief.