Would a good god allow the Coronavirus?

Muffled said:

I believe for some people it is just time to die. I don't see any martyrdom in that.

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And for some dying for a reason might seem like martyrdom.

Muffled said:

I believe the reason would be the millions of children murdered in abortion throughout the world.

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Wait...are you saying that god killed hundreds of thousands and continues to do so every year...because his creations are using their free will and choice to do things god doesn't like? Either we have free will...or we don't. If Covid really is a "punishment" from this god, then he should make it more clear. Perhaps announce it to the world and actually say, "This is god, I'm tired of your baby killing ways and you giving women autonomy over their own bodies, stop both or I'll kill more people with Covid." Otherwise, you just sound like you are making up things.

Rawshak said:

In order to assert that there is a God who is supervising this, then it must follow that there is morally sufficient reason for it to occur"

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What if, I replace the question;
Would a good god allow the fart ?

In order to assert that there is a God who is supervising this, then it must follow that there is morally sufficient reason for it to occur, or someone ate the wrong thing, or there's some sot of very serious problem in the stomach ?

I think, we people destructed the mother nature a lot.

Alienistic said:

1) is most sensible. Mankind never chose to be created or given free will or the potentials within itself to be able to be bad or evil puppets and be punished for how it was designed. It is simply doing as it were programmed to be and do. Just as mankind never chose to be smitten with diseases, virus’s, suffering.

Perhaps a human marionette can become aware that it is a marionette, choose that this god must be evil, and seek and choose to become as free from it as it can be.

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Being thankful for life is also a good thing and trying to see our place in it in relation to the all knowing and omnipotent creator who says He loves us and is doing what is right even if we don't fully understand at this point in time.

People_Lack_Integrity said:

That's not an answer to the challenge and you don't actually know if "God knows what he is doing", or even if god is a "He" or even if it exists at all. So dismissing an evil action done by a god, just because you presume this god is good, is simply you ignoring evil in favor of a being more powerful that you.

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That's faith for you.
Judging God from our point of ignorance and not wanting to listen to and understand God's pov is not a good way to go.

People_Lack_Integrity said:

Which proves my point that because you start out with the presumption that god is good, you are willing to look past human suffering and atrocity, so long as it is committed by this same god. That's frightening to say the least, because it also means that if this same god ordered you to do something you know is evil, you'd do it, because as you put it, "God must have a good reason for killing children". It always amazes me that people can justify the killing of innocents and children, just to support their religion. You lost your humanity in all of this.

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Seeing and disliking suffering is the same with me as with you.
It is the same with God also and so that is why God is going to bring it all to a close when humans and angels will be judged as the sources of evil will go and we will understand the reasons for all of this suffering.

People_Lack_Integrity said:

Which it failed to do and immediately so. I mean, right after the flood your "god" acknowledges the failure of his plan. Genesis says what the plan was, to get rid of the evil in men's hearts, by saving the only righteous family on earth. Yet immediately after says that god learned that he couldn't get rid of the evil in men's hearts and would never again curse the ground of the earth by wiping out mankind. This is an acknowledgement of failure. Your god failed at wiping out the evil in men's hearts, which is why he promised to never commit mass genocide again.

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God did not say that the plan was to get rid of the evil in men's hearts. God seemed to want to get rid of the over abundance of evil to give a fresh start. Evil however has a way of escalating and in the end people are doing things that are evil and think it is right. God knew that.
So God is evil for allowing evil and He is a failure for judging and getting rid of most of the evil. I guess God is in a no win situation with some people.

People_Lack_Integrity said:

According to whom? I think the people who were just killed or lost their homes in Louisiana just a few days ago due to Hurricane Ida would disagree. I think the parents of children with cancer, or other diseases would disagree. You say that god doesn't cause all children to get cancer? Well god could also cure all those kids, especially the ones of faithful parents who are praying ever day and the prayers will go unanswered. Besides which, did god invent cancer? Or is he completely not in control of the diseases, viruses, bacteria and natural disasters of this world? For a god...he doesn't seem to have much power, or willingness to act. There's an old quote by Epicurus that is still highly relevant today and is logically sound:
Is god willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him god?

I'm not sure how you can say that there's more at stake than "us humans". It's never been proven that angels, demons, other realms..etc...exist at all. So far as science can tell, there's only the material realm. Until you or somebody else can prove there is a "whole real apart from this material", then you have no business asserting you know there is one.

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I did say that God created the world as it is and so in that respect can be judged for innocents dying of cancer etc.
It is amazing imo that people with faith can suffer and still keep the faith and come out the other side praising God even if in the middle of the suffering they are angry with God.
Epicurus was right from his pov but his pov was one which was unwilling to give God the benefit of the doubt as to why the suffering is allowed.
If you want take science as your standard of truth for things that science cannot see or study that is your prerogative. Science just does not know and can only comment on what it can study.
I was giving some possible reasons for what you blame God for and look at other evidences in faith for saying what I do. You also look at the evidences you look at and come to a conclusion that the angels etc probably don't exist.
Was I asserting something when I state my beliefs? I have every right to do that on a religious discussion forum surely, just as you have a right to state your beliefs about God in your ignorance also.

People_Lack_Integrity said:

Of course it is tough, because there's simply no explanation. The bible clearly states that if you have faith, your prayers will be answered. So when a prayer is not answered, you get all these excuses that are non-biblical such as "God sometimes says no" or "God must have had a good reason" or "Maybe you didn't pray hard enough" or "Maybe your faith wasn't strong enough". The bible says explicitly in Matthew 17:20 and Luke 17:6, that even if you have a small amount of faith or the "faith of a mustard seed", then nothing will be impossible for you, that you can pray to move a mountain and it will move, or if you pray for a Mulberry tree to be uprooted and planted in the sea, it will obey you. Clearly this isn't true and that's why you have all of these excuses christians give as to why prayer does not work. So, either the bible is wrong, or christians are wrong, or both. Keeping believing won't change anything with regards to the outcome of the prayer. In science, if an experiment fails, the scientist does not say "Oh well, even though this cure didn't work, I'm going to keep believing that it did and just try it again". No, they toss the experiment, declare it a failure and move on to another experiment. Prayer is a failed experiment that people keep trying anyways hoping for a different result, but always get the same outcome. As far as miracles....there isn't one proven miracle in the history of mankind. Every single "miracle" boils down to bold claims with insufficient evidence to back them and almost always a logical fallacy such as "this is unexplainable by science, it must be god". I've taken on every single "miracle" referenced to me by a believer and they are always found wanting. Not because I'm biased, but because I base my beliefs upon evidence and not emotion.

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I won't try to refute what you said because I find it hard to know why God would not answer my prayers at times.
I still have faith and keep on praying however and believe God provides miracles.

People_Lack_Integrity said:

You left some wiggle room that you "doubt" you would sacrifice your son. Right there is the horror of religion, that you could even consider it an option. I would not hesitate in telling that god to go F himself. My son is my world and I would never sacrifice him to some insecure being to prove my loyalty to them. Nothing Abraham did was good, because he was willing to kill his son for a god, just to prove loyalty. That's sick and sadistic and shows no regard for human life. Jepthah made a deal with god. The deal was, "God, help me win this battle and I'll sacrifice the first thing that comes through my door." God accepted the deal, Jepthah won his war and the first thing to go through his door was his daughter. God knew it would be his daughter, because it's god right? God knows everything. It makes no difference that Jepthah did it, because Abraham was also going to kill his son, but god stopped it. But god did not send an angel to stop Jepthah and there was time! It even says god gave him a few more days with his daughter and then allowed Jepthah to push a sword through his daughters heart, fulfilling the deal. In any other context, people would look at this and say "This must have been a deal with the devil since it involved war and sacrificing a child!!!" Yet it was not! It was your god, who is supposedly the good one, but killed millions upon millions in the OT, took sides in wars, killed children, women, babies, and released plagues upon people. You can literally do a body count of the people killed directly by god or directed to be killed by god through others and it totals over 2 million people and that's in actual numbers referenced in the bible. If you estimate with other events where specific numbers weren't listed, not to mention the global flood, that number goes up significantly! Know how many people Satan killed in the bible? About a dozen and the majority were in his bet over Job where god allowed Satan to kill his family. It amazes me that people could read the bible and say that god is the good one in this story.

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All I can say is that Abraham believed God that his son Isaac would be the father of a great nation.
With Jepthah it was his choice that came from his initial doubting that God had chosen him to save Israel from attack from their enemies. It was wrong for Jepthah to promise that sacrifice as some sort of bribe, knowing it would result in the death of a loved one. God gave Jepthah the victory because God had chosen him for the task to save Israel and the victory would have come without the vow of Jepthah. God did not do wrong in this situation. This Jepthah argument is however consistent with you blaming God for the evil in the world even though God has done nothing wrong except in your view, of not stopping the evil that happens.
Killing and death in OT times was what happened when kings went out to war in the spring time. Kingdoms took over kingdoms all the time and millions were killed even without God giving any commands.
God could have waved His hand and made everyone peaceful but that was not God's job, He was setting up His battle against evil and death with the Jewish nation and leading on to the saviour of the whole world.
It is Satan who played the leading role in bringing suffering and death to humans when he told the lie to Eve.
It is God who will end it all, but in His own time. And when it is ended there will probably be millions more who will die.
That's who God is, the judge of the whole earth, the creator who has the authority to judge and sentence to death and bring to life and restore what was lost by people also.....................imo

Clara Tea said:

The prediction of Coronavirus (COVID) is in the bible (Revelation 15). All of Revelation was a warning not to attack Iraq, and to recognize who will attack it. It described the attacker as the most powerful nation in the world, and described it as the Whore of Babylon. Why don't other people see this obvious statement in the bible? It is as if no one understands the bible (the word of God), and no one is heeding God.

Modern prophets of God also warned not to attack Iraq, but no one heeded them.

Is God justified in making COVID? I don't know. Who is qualified to judge God?

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What made you come to the conclusion that it was a prediction of COVID-19 and not the Spanish Flu? Currently, the Spanish Flu killed about 10x more people than Covid-19.

According to you, what does the Whore of Babylon mean?