I've never met another Christian of any kind that didn't have what they considered evidence.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Samantha Rinne
Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist
I just can't believe it.
How does a person believe in something for which they have no evidence?
How can one just believe in a god, when they have absolutely no evidence?
I don't get it.
To me, that's like one standing on the edge of a mountain, without any glider, singing, "I believe I can fly. I believe I can touch the sky. I dream about it every night and day. Spread my wings and fly away."
(Cliff picture)
Then jumps.
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. SPLAT
Is that not idiotic?
That's not faith either. It's stupidity, imo.
The Bible does not even support such an absurd idea.
If Jesus just wanted people to have faith without evidence, he would have simply walked around; looked people in the face; smiled, and said, "Hey. I'm the Messiah. Believe it."
However, Jesus performed great signs, and used the scriptures to teach with authority, giving people evidence - reason to believe, and exercise faith. Is that not so?
So can someone help me out here. How does a person believe in a god, without evidence? I know there are quite a number of those who call themselves Christians, who think this way. Blind faith, they call it.
They're not blind at all.
You're blind.
You have evidence all around you, yet you declare there isn't any evidence because it doesn't meet some kind of standard of yours.
Golly, I don't see ANY evidence of a Creator. You know, because there aren't atomic and subatomic particles, a universe, DNA for not just one life form but literally thousands or millions of unique life, and an entire world of rocks/trees/oceans/etc.
There is certainly evidence of a Creator. It's called having created things.
You can compare faith in God to jumping off a cliff all you want, but the two are not comparable. A theist loses very little for their belief aside from their materialism (which actually is the absence of something not something lost, as it is still very much possible to still accept science, but now you believe in God). However, an atheist comes to the end of their life and realizes they've spent most of it working, that they haven't done enough, that they aren't enough. They are a loser who didn't get the girl or are still living with their parents. And they are trapped in a world of no hope. So who has been talked into jumping off a cliff here? This is a very picture of being stuck on a spiritual ledge.
Btw, Jesus explicitly spoke against jumping off cliffs.
Luke 4 BSB
Last edited:
nPeace
Veteran Member
What evidence is there that Jesus performed signs?
For one thing, about the same evidence we have that the Egyptians employed medical practices, and "magic".
Magic in Ancient Egypt
It is recorded, as with the case of all historical documents which record the practices, and events of ancient people... recorded by people who were actually there - a primary source.
They wrote things. That's what people do, evidently - write.
Can we trust what is writen?
The evidence shows we can. What evidence?
There are secondary sources, and also other sources of information which can verify those sources.
Then there is the candor of the writers, and the confirmation of much of what was thought by critics to be "made up".
To mention just a few... Hezekiah; The record on Sargon, the Assyrian; Daniel... The list is long.
Some events are confirmed also.
Then along with that there is the overall harmony related to the overall message of the collection of documents; the historical, scientific, and prophetic accuracy, that leaves no doubt as to the authenticity of the texts.... and lots more.
Giving us much evidence of the trustworthiness of the eyewitness and secondhand recordings of the accounts related to Jesus performing powerful works.
You can read more, in this document - The Miracles of Jesus - Fact or Fiction?
Does everyone need to believe it, in order for it to be evidence?
No. People don't have to believe anything, and evidence is not determined as reliable, by those who call themselves experts.
Since faith is based on evidence, to have faith one must first come to an accurate knowledge of truth, but they must also value truth. Only then will onr be motivated to exercise true faith - that is, to act in harmony with the truth.
A person who does not appreciate the truth, will reject even convincing evidence because he stubbornly holds to preconceived ideas or seeks to excuse his fleshly desires.
This is seen in the fact that eve though many saw Jesus' powerful works, they did not develop faith.
According to the Bible, faith is a product of God's spirit. Galatians 5:22
nPeace
Veteran Member
Very nice Samantha. Are you sure you got the right guy? Did you read the OP? Because oddly enough you agree with the OP, but got your targets confused.They're not blind at all.
You're blind.
You have evidence all around you, yet you declare there isn't any evidence because it doesn't meet some kind of standard of yours.
Golly, I don't see ANY evidence of a Creator. You know, because there aren't atomic and subatomic particles, a universe, DNA for not just one life form but literally thousands or millions of unique life, and an entire world of rocks/trees/oceans/etc.
There is certainly evidence of a Creator. It's called having created things.
You can compare faith in God to jumping off a cliff all you want, but the two are not comparable. A theist loses very little for their belief aside from their materialism (which actually is the absence of something not something lost, as it is still very much possible to still accept science, but now you believe in God). However, an atheist comes to the end of their life and realizes they've spent most of it working, that they haven't done enough, that they aren't enough. They are a loser who didn't get the girl or are still living with their parents. And they are trapped in a world of no hope. So who has been talked into jumping off a cliff here? This is a very picture of being stuck on a spiritual ledge.
Btw, Jesus explicitly spoke against jumping off cliffs.
Luke 4 BSB
nPeace
Veteran Member
On these forums, there are many who claim to believe in God, but say there is no evidence. Is that not evidence-less "faith" - blind faith? One person actually told me their faith is blind, and call themselves Christian.
firedragon
Veteran Member
So your evidence that Jesus performed miracles is "Egypt".
nPeace
Veteran Member
God question Ken.
From Genesis 11:10, we see that one of Noah's faithful sons, who lived through the flood, was father to a great great grandfather of Abram. So I think it's safe to say that Abram grew up hearing the stories related, and dwelling among people who worshiped Jehovah the true God. His faith would have grown from what he saw and heard.
According to Romans 10:17 faith follows the thing heard.
What is seen and heard, serves as evidence.
We hear many things, but don't believe everything we hear, because we test what we hear, just as we taste foods.
(Job 12:11) Does not the ear itself test out words As the palate tastes food?
The Psalmist said, "Taste and see that Jehovah is good; Happy is the man who takes refuge in him." (Psalm 34:8)
I believe Abram saw God's hand in his life, just as we do today.
.
nPeace
Veteran Member
Are you making jokes?
firedragon
Veteran Member
No I am not.
I am asking you what evidence do you have that Jesus performed miracles since your whole OP was about evidence.
nPeace
Veteran Member
Can you please listen, and try for one moment to let go of trying hard to argue for your disbelief.
The........OP........said........nothing........about........a........book.
Do you understand.
Are you asking what the evidence is. Start with Romans 1:20, and Hebrews 3:4. That's where we start.
Then return let's talk about that. Afterward we can talk about books.
nPeace
Veteran Member
I answered, and if you read it's Egypt, then you must be joking.
nPeace
Veteran Member
I have no idea where that came from, or why you said it, except that maybe you just wanted to. I don't understand anything you are saying here. You lost me.Did you understand what I said, because it doesn't seem like you actually responded to anything I said.
Jesus gave that reason, he said it is finished and that He would return with a New Name, but write only upon those that receive that Name
It is not the flesh that returns, Jesus said the flesh amounts to nothing, but it is the New Christ, the "Annointed One", Annointed with the same Holy Spirit that returns.
It is said that the Glory of God came via the way of the Gate. There are two new manes for us to consider already. Gate is the translation for the Bab, and the Gory of God is the translation of Baha'u'llah.
Those names were not an accident, they proclaim who they are and the Bible has mentioned them Prophecy, from the time of Abraham and Moses
IMHO, accepting Baha'u'llah is confirming one's faith in Jesus the Christ, Moses, Abraham and all the Prophets both in the Bible and all other scriptures.
Regards Tony
nPeace
Veteran Member
The contents of the Bible can and do serve as evidence. I never mentioned it though, because I don't need to, as there is evidence besides what the Bible contains... which is what I had in mind.
nPeace
Veteran Member
.and you are not so generous in sharing?
I don't want to be selfish. I want to hear from you. Can you answer my questions?
nPeace
Veteran Member
True that.
nPeace
Veteran Member
You also???
I'm surprised people misunderstand the OP. Is it how I speak (write), or how people listen (read).
Wrong guy, Wildswanderer. I don't think any of what you are asking.
nPeace
Veteran Member
Nothing is wrong with the book. I just didn't want that to be the focus of the arguers. As there is so much more for one to see evidence of God, besides religious connections.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
.. and what is that if you could mention?
Kindly mention some from this 'so much'.
Proof of 'God', proof that this entity sent any message and proof that a particular person was the messenger. That is what is lacking in these stories.
Last edited:
nPeace
Veteran Member
Understanding the Miracles of the Bible
To satisfy the inquiring mind on the question of miracles requires that the evidence in connection with them point to (1) a superior power, (2) their possibility from a scientific point of view and (3) the reason for or purpose of the miracles. A miracle, amazing to the eye of the beholder, is something beyond his ability to perform or even to understand fully. It is a work requiring greater power or knowledge than he has. But from the viewpoint of the one who is the source of such power it is not a miracle. He understands it and has the ability to do it.
Skeptics who accept such laws view a miracle as a violation of these laws, which they accept, reasonably, as irrevocable, inexorable: therefore, they say, a miracle never occurs. However, it is good to keep in mind that they do not fully understand the operation of these laws. Nevertheless, their attitude is that ‘if it is not understandable and explainable to us as far as we discern these laws, it cannot happen.’
However, capable scientists are becoming increasingly cautious about saying that a certain thing is impossible. Professor John R. Brobeck of the University of Pennsylvania stated:
“A scientist is no longer able to say honestly something is impossible. He can only say that it is improbable. But he may be able to say that something is impossible to explain in terms of our present knowledge. Science cannot say that all properties of matter and all forms of energy are known. . . . [For a miracle] one thing that needs to be added is a source of energy unknown in our biological and physical sciences. In our Scriptures this source of energy is identified as the power of God.”—Time, July 4, 1955.