Question for Baha’is. Does Baha’ism entail Quranism.

an anarchist · Sep 1, 2021

Quranism - Wikipedia
Quranism holds that the Quran is the only legitimate Islamic holy text. It teaches that the Hadith’s should be disregarded.
Baha’is consider Mohammed to be a prophet. So the Quran is considered a holy text. Do Baha’is disregard the various Hadith literature? The various Hadith literature is what creates the Sunni and Shia branches. Are Baha’is Quranists, in this sense?

danieldemol · Sep 1, 2021

Xavier Graham SA said:
Quranism - Wikipedia
Quranism holds that the Quran is the only legitimate Islamic holy text. It teaches that the Hadith’s should be disregarded.
Baha’is consider Mohammed to be a prophet. So the Quran is considered a holy text. Do Baha’is disregard the various Hadith literature? The various Hadith literature is what creates the Sunni and Shia branches. Are Baha’is Quranists, in this sense?

You will probably find most Baha'i these days take a Quranist outlook because it is easier to explain away to a modern audience than the Hadith are, but in my opinion this was not historically the case, for example Abdul-Baha upholds the tradition, "I am a Prophet by the sword"1, but acts as though that's all ok because it reffered mostly to the polytheists of Arabia whom He casts in a negative light.

In my opinion.

1. Bahá'í Reference Library - The Secret of Divine Civilization, Pages 41-60

InvestigateTruth · Sep 1, 2021

Xavier Graham SA said:
Quranism - Wikipedia
Quranism holds that the Quran is the only legitimate Islamic holy text. It teaches that the Hadith’s should be disregarded.
Baha’is consider Mohammed to be a prophet. So the Quran is considered a holy text. Do Baha’is disregard the various Hadith literature? The various Hadith literature is what creates the Sunni and Shia branches. Are Baha’is Quranists, in this sense?

No, when it comes to Islam, Bahais believe both Quran and authentic hadithes were meant to be a guidance. However as you probably know, Bahais have a new set of Scriptures which they believe are revealed for this new dispensation.

an anarchist · Sep 1, 2021

InvestigateTruth said:
Bahais believe both Quran and authentic hadithes were meant to be a guidance.

If my understanding is correct, the Sunni and Shia branches of Islam believe in different Hadiths. How does a Baha’i know which Hadiths are authentic? Or do they believe in the Hadiths from both branches?

InvestigateTruth · Sep 1, 2021

Xavier Graham SA said:
If my understanding is correct, the Sunni and Shia branches of Islam believe in different Hadiths. How does a Baha’i know which Hadiths are authentic? Or do they believe in the Hadiths from both branches?

The Bahais believe a Hadith is authentic if they are confirmed in Bahai Scriptures. Also if a Hadith has its origin in the Quran, and is compatible with the Quran, it is considered to have originated from Muhammad, regardless if it is in Sunni or Shia sources.

paarsurrey · Sep 3, 2021

Xavier Graham SA said:
Quranism - Wikipedia
Quranism holds that the Quran is the only legitimate Islamic holy text. It teaches that the Hadith’s should be disregarded.
Baha’is consider Mohammed to be a prophet. So the Quran is considered a holy text. Do Baha’is disregard the various Hadith literature? The various Hadith literature is what creates the Sunni and Shia branches. Are Baha’is Quranists, in this sense?

If they would have followed Quran, then they would have not gone out of the pale of Islam. Right?
They themselves opted to be out of Islam/Quran/Muhammad, so it is their own decision. Right?
Yet, I have nothing against them, they have a right to be mislead, if they please. Right?
Any time they are welcome to come back into the folds of Islam. Right?

Regards

Jedster · Sep 3, 2021

paarsurrey said:
If they would have followed Quran, then they would have not gone out of the pale of Islam. Right?
They themselves opted to be out of Islam/Quran/Muhammad, so it is their own decision. Right?
Yet, I have nothing against them, they have a right to be mislead, if they please. Right?
Any time they are welcome to come back into the folds of Islam. Right?

Regards

That sounds a little ironic coming from an Ahmadi.
Most (non-Ahmadi )Muslims I have met, say the same about Ahmadis.

TransmutingSoul · Sep 3, 2021

paarsurrey said:
If they would have followed Quran, then they would have not gone out of the pale of Islam. Right?
They themselves opted to be out of Islam/Quran/Muhammad, so it is their own decision. Right?
Yet, I have nothing against them, they have a right to be mislead, if they please. Right?
Any time they are welcome to come back into the folds of Islam. Right?

Regards

That is not Correct IMHO.

We accept Muhammad as a Messenger of Allah, (Peace be upon the Messengers)

The Baha'i choose to Submit to Allah and as such are 'Muslim', One who Submits to God and as such are also followers of Islam, (Submission unto the Will of God).

The Baha'i teachings tell us not to become Lovers of Names, but Lovers of Allah, the One and Only God of all Faith.

A Baha'i is a follower of "Baha" which means the follower of the "Glory" or "Splendor" of God. Which in this age is inclusive of Muhammad and also Inclusive of all the Mesengers and their specific attributes they One and all, brought to all humanity.

Regards Tony

SpentaMaynu · Sep 4, 2021

Xavier Graham SA said:
If my understanding is correct, the Sunni and Shia branches of Islam believe in different Hadiths. How does a Baha’i know which Hadiths are authentic? Or do they believe in the Hadiths from both branches?

As far as I understand Baha'i history, they grew out of Shia Islam. My assumption would be that the Hadith of the Shia Muslims will then be, if not most important, at least preferred? But that's just an educated guess. Please correct me if I'm wrong @Tony Bristow-Stagg

TransmutingSoul · Sep 4, 2021

SpentaMaynu said:
As far as I understand Baha'i history, they grew out of Shia Islam. My assumption would be that the Hadith of the Shia Muslims will then be, if not most important, at least preferred? But that's just an educated guess. Please correct me if I'm wrong @Tony Bristow-Stagg

Thank you for considering me for this question.

What I have come to understand about the Message of the Bab and Baha'u'llah is that the Message from God comes like a river, it flows from the source through the Messengers. Baha'u'llah offered that whenever He needed a certain knowledge, then it would be there available.

As such the Writings of the Bab and Baha'u'llah pull from all that is Truth, be it Suni or Shia, or any other God given Faith or Faith inspired individuals.

A great meditation on this is that the Bible predicts that the Muslim Faith would be divided and that Truth would become clouded and this would be for 1260 years.

Look at this Revelation 11:3 in that light. "And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth." (1260 days = 1260years) The Bible foretold us of Muhammad the first Witness and Ali the 2nd Witness. Chapter 11 of the Bible tells us the Story of Islam, the coming of the Bab (2nd Woe) and Baha'u'llah.

These stories from all the Holy books are made clear to the Manifestation of God, they are the source of all that is Truth.

There are many tangents and thoughts on the question you asked.

All is offerd IMHO

Regards Tony

FearGod · Sep 4, 2021

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
That is not Correct IMHO.

We accept Muhammad as a Messenger of Allah, (Peace be upon the Messengers)

The Baha'i choose to Submit to Allah and as such are 'Muslim', One who Submits to God and as such are also followers of Islam, (Submission unto the Will of God).

The Baha'i teachings tell us not to become Lovers of Names, but Lovers of Allah, the One and Only God of all Faith.

A Baha'i is a follower of "Baha" which means the follower of the "Glory" or "Splendor" of God. Which in this age is inclusive of Muhammad and also Inclusive of all the Mesengers and their specific attributes they One and all, brought to all humanity.

Regards Tony

If you are submitting yourself to the will of God which means Islam then why the need to
follow another name such as Bahai, it's a name of a person and not submission to God.
The word Islam means submission while Bahai doesn't mean submission.

TransmutingSoul · Sep 4, 2021

FearGod said:
If you are submitting yourself to the will of God which means Islam then why the need to
follow another name such as Bahai, it's a name of a person and not submission to God.
The word Islam means submission while Bahai doesn't mean submission.

Progression of Revelation includes Submission.

One does not forget the building blocks of knowledge throughout our years of schooling, religion follows the same progression.

Baha'u'llah means Glory of God, the Glory of God is all the Messengers of God.

A Baha'i is a follow of the Light, no matter where it shines from. The Key is that the Laws and advice for this age, is applicable to us and needs to be implemented in this age.

Regards Tony

FearGod · Sep 4, 2021

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
Progression of Revelation includes Submission.

One does not forget the building blocks of knowledge throughout our years of schooling, religion follows the same progression.

Baha'u'llah means Glory of God, the Glory of God is all the Messengers of God.

A Baha'i is a follow of the Light, no matter where it shines from. The Key is that the Laws and advice for this age, is applicable to us and needs to be implemented in this age.

Regards Tony

Words are clear brother and it doesn't need philosophy.
Baha'i means following the way of Baha'u'llah(person name)
Islam means submission to God(not person name)

TransmutingSoul · Sep 4, 2021

FearGod said:
Words are clear brother and it doesn't need philosophy.
Baha'i means following the way of Baha'u'llah(person name)
Islam means submission to God(not person name)

That is a chosen frame of reference and not the logic that can be shown, here is the logic.

Muhammad = Persons name
Quran = Allah's Message = Submission.
Submission = Islam = Muslim.

Baha'u'llah = Persons name
Kitab-i-Iqan = Allah's Message = Submission.
Submission = Islam = Muslim.

Regards Tony

FearGod · Sep 5, 2021

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
That is a chosen frame of reference and not the logic that can be shown, here is the logic.

Muhammad = Persons name
Quran = Allah's Message = Submission.
Submission = Islam = Muslim.

Baha'u'llah = Persons name
Kitab-i-Iqan = Allah's Message = Submission.
Submission = Islam = Muslim.

Regards Tony

And what you call yourself?
a baha'i or a muslim?

Truthseeker · Sep 5, 2021

Xavier Graham SA said:
Quranism - Wikipedia
Quranism holds that the Quran is the only legitimate Islamic holy text. It teaches that the Hadith’s should be disregarded.
Baha’is consider Mohammed to be a prophet. So the Quran is considered a holy text. Do Baha’is disregard the various Hadith literature? The various Hadith literature is what creates the Sunni and Shia branches. Are Baha’is Quranists, in this sense?

If Hadiths are consistent with the Qur'an and Baha'i scriptures also, we accept them. Both the Qur'an and the Baha'i scriptures point to the same truth. As to recorded sayings by 'Abdu'l-Baha, for example, we are not to accept them if they conflict with written sayings. Though, you need to be careful that they really conflict and are not different facets of the same truth. Same would be true of Hadith, I suppose.

TransmutingSoul · Sep 5, 2021

FearGod said:
And what you call yourself?
a baha'i or a muslim?

A world citizen that believes in one people on one planet under One God.

Regards Tony

Shakeel · Sep 5, 2021

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
The Baha'i choose to Submit to Allah and as such are 'Muslim'

Saying one submits doesn't mean one does. The Baha'is claim to submit, but they don't and therefore are not Muslim.

TransmutingSoul · Sep 5, 2021

Shakeel said:
Saying one submits doesn't mean one does. The Baha'is claim to submit, but they don't and therefore are not Muslim.

You are free to offer that, luckily it is Allah that judges our hearts and actions.

Regards Tony

Question for Baha’is. Does Baha’ism entail Quranism.

an anarchist

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danieldemol

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InvestigateTruth

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an anarchist

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SpentaMaynu

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