Dreams and Visions

Bird123 · Aug 31, 2021

QuestioningMind said:
Since we all already know God whether we know we know or not, I would never claim any message came from God unless the message was delivered personally.

I'm sorry, you may as well have written since we all already know magical pixies whether we know we know or not, I would never claim any message came from magical pixies unless the message was delivered personally. It would have made exactly as much logical sense to me.

As for my subconscious mind coming up with any answers, I had no clue nor any idea the faucet could possibly be on. The message did not come from me.

How did you possibly reach that conclusion? You're saying that just because at first you couldn't consciously come up with another explanation for the water in the basement, it's impossible that during the night your subconsciously couldn't have thought of an alternative explanation? You may not even of had the thought that it was a facet left on in the back. You may have considered the possibility that the neighbor who lives on the hill behind you has a broken water pipe and the water in your basement was running down from that. All that happened is that given time you did come up with an alternative to a broken water main and in this case it happened to be the correct alternative. Why are you convinced that your subconscious isn't capable of making such logical deductions to come up with alternatives to your original assumption that it could only be a leaking water main?

I don't know how many times I've been trying to fix a car where I'm convinced that there are only two possible reasons why I'd be getting the symptoms that I'm getting. When I check the easier fix and find it just fine, I then conclude that I have no choice but to fix the much more difficult problem. Fortunately I often go to bed first and end up dreaming about yet a THIRD possible explanation and low and behold that turns out to be the problem instead. Every time it happens I always assume that after a night of my subconscious mulling over the problem it came up with an answer. Never once have I concluded that the kindly Car Gods sent me the answer in my dreams.

Your beliefs were never the point. The point was what actually exists. It doesn't matter whether you believe God exists or not. You do already know God whether at this moment you do not know you know. There will come a time when it will all become clear to you again.

As for claiming your subconscious is solving your problems, the question remains. Why isn't it solving more problems for you? Your subconscious solving your problems is mere speculation on your part as you can not come up with the real answer.

Like I said. It is what it is until one has knowledge to show otherwise.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

We Never Know · Aug 31, 2021

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
There is actually a lot written about dreams now, in the Baha'i Writings, they are very interesting.

From memory there is 3 levels of dreams.

Dreams tied to the material world born out of out material experiences.

Dreams of a Divine nature, pure and connected to the Spiritual worlds

A mixture of both.

Regards Tony

According to studies, we can't dream of a face we haven't ever seen.

15 Interesting Facts about Dreams

TransmutingSoul · Aug 31, 2021

We Never Know said:
According to studies, we can't dream of a face we haven't ever seen.

15 Interesting Facts about Dreams

Well all I can say about that, is that is not a case in my dreams. It happens to me all the time, it is not a face I have seen on earth, most of the time, unless it is of the first layer of dreams, then yes.

Mostly what I consider we see is not a physical but the Spiritual reality of a person. I have awakened from a dream to know my sister was in it, but the form I was interacting was not her physical self or features.

Regards Tony

We Never Know · Aug 31, 2021

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
Well all I can say about that, is that is not a case in my dreams. It happens to me all the time, it is not a face I have seen on earth, most of the time, unless it is of the first layer of dreams, then yes.

Mostly what I consider we see is not a physical but the Spiritual reality of a person. I have awakened from a dream to know my sister was in it, but the form I was interacting was not her physical self or features.

Regards Tony

So can you say with 100% surety that you have never seen the face(s) you dream of in a book, movie, passing in the street, etc?

"Our mind is not inventing faces – in our dreams, we see real faces of real people that we have seen during our life but may not know or remember. We have all seen hundreds of thousands of faces throughout our lives, so we have an endless supply of characters for our brain to utilize during our dreams.

QuestioningMind · Aug 31, 2021

Bird123 said:
Your beliefs were never the point. The point was what actually exists. It doesn't matter whether you believe God exists or not. You do already know God whether at this moment you do not know you know. There will come a time when it will all become clear to you again.

As for claiming your subconscious is solving your problems, the question remains. Why isn't it solving more problems for you? Your subconscious solving your problems is mere speculation on your part as you can not come up with the real answer.

Like I said. It is what it is until one has knowledge to show otherwise.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

It doesn't matter whether you believe God exists or not. You do already know God whether at this moment you do not know you know. There will come a time when it will all become clear to you again.

Do you honestly not see how childish that sounds? Fewer things are more pathetic than moronically claiming that you know what someone else knows better than they do.

As for claiming your subconscious is solving your problems, the question remains. Why isn't it solving more problems for you? Your subconscious solving your problems is mere speculation on your part as you can not come up with the real answer.

Wait a minute! If GOD solved your water leakage problem why isn't GOD solving all of your problems? Again, don't you see how pathetically childish such an argument is?

Like I said. It is what it is until one has knowledge to show otherwise.

The only thing we have knowledge of is that it came to you in a dream. Whether it came from God or your subconscious, we have no knowledge, yet you've foolishly decided to attribute it to God.

Ben Dhyan · Aug 31, 2021

Redemptionsong said:
Have you ever had a dream or vision that you believe was given to you by God?

What makes you believe the dream/vision was from God?

What was the content of the dream or vision, and what do you think it meant?

Joel 2:28 and Acts 2:17 speak of such divine revelations occurring 'in the last days'.

This 'dream' happened many years ago.

So I went to bed and at some point during the night I floated up from my bed and out the window of the house (which was not my house) and found my self flying above the grass and trees below, with a man holding my right hand with his left and flying beside me. I pinched myself on my right forearm and it hurt so I understood that I was not dreaming.

We came to a place where there were people sitting around a rectangular table with one at the end with his back to me. I was brought to this 'man' who stood up and turned around and said "What took you so long?". This man was not a man, it was an alien and had the most revolting face and head I've ever imagined. I could not hide my revulsion, he had a face that looked a hundred year old, and his huge forehead was incredibly wrinkled.

I now seemed to be in training jumping, running, dancing, etc. with others.

Next I was presented with a large two sided sword by a friend whose initials are JC, and the blade had engraved on it "Macole".

I woke up in my bed and had goose bumps each time I remembered what I had just experienced. I did not consider it a dream but a real encounter in my physical body.. I thought about it night and day for months and read about esoteric matters such as the concept of astral travel, OOB experiences, etc.. I finally accepted that my physical body did not go anywhere, it was in bed the whole time, it all happened in my astral body.

There are many things about the experience I am yet to understand, but certainly my spiritual development was a key aspect. If anyone has any suggestions as to things I do not understand, like the revolting alien, the sword, etc., please feel free.

Redemptionsong · Sep 1, 2021

QuestioningMind said:
Science has concluded that there was a beginning to the universe. The conclusion reached is that time and space did not exist before the 'Big Bang'. There was either 'nothing' or 'Spirit' in existence before the Big Bang. To claim otherwise is to assume material existence, and therefore time/space. The difficulty that clearly exists for anyone wanting to see further back than the 'beginning' is that it is not verifiable!

You’re doing it again. You’re jumping to unfounded conclusions without evidence. It is true that science has concluded that there was a beginning to the universe… AS WE KNOW IT. It’s also true that prior to the Big Bang that time and space AS WE KNOW IT did not exist. However, did a type of time and space that we’re not familiar with exist prior to the big bang? The answer is WE DON’T KNOW. Was there nothing before the Big Bang? WE DON’T KNOW! What you got RIGHT is that anyone wanting to see further back that the ‘beginning’ currently CAN’T, since nothing can be verified prior to the Big Bang.

It makes more sense to me that Spirit, rather than nothing, existed before the Big Bang. God, who is Spirit, is, to my reasoning, a far more likely Creator than 'nothing'. As one Greek philosopher said, 'nothing comes from nothing'.

How did you conclude that NOTHING or SPIRIT are the ONLY possible alternatives? How did you rule out magical pixies? How did you rule out an explanation that neither of us had thought of yet? You’re just PRETENDING like you have an answer when in reality YOU DON’T KNOW, just like everyone else.

So, if God is the more likely Creator, it makes sense to consider why God would wish to create, and what his intentions are. This is why it makes good sense to read those books that claim to be a revelation from God.

Have you ever sat down and studied the Bible to determine whether it might be God's Word?

What YOU happen to think is the most likely creator means absolutely nothing unless you can provide verifiable evidence. And yes, I HAVE read your bible (two different version in fact). I’ve also read the Hindu Vedas and the Koran. How about you? Did you also read those alternative texts with ‘faith’ that they must be true? If so, why did you dismiss them in favor of putting

At least you admit that you don't know what existed before the Big Bang, and that you don't understand 'consciousness' or 'life'. With a bit more digging, l think it will quickly become apparent that your reliance on scientific method and critical thinking is not enough to uncover 'truth'. Yet, it is truth that you have claimed to seek.

How can scientific method, which is inductive, ever supply a person with truth? It will always be an approximation. Without omniscience, absolute truth will remain unknowable. And who, if anyone, has onniscience? It can only be the Creator.

The first words of the Bible are a condition for understanding God's word. It is not set forth as a puzzle to be tackled by critical thinkers, but a revelation to all who have a heart to learn the truth, as God reveals it.

I have spent much of my life studying the Bible and comparing it with other religious texts. I can find no comparable prophecy. As Jesus said, 'scripture cannot be broken', and although it took about 1500 years to complete the canon of the Bible, the words build a picture of incomparible beauty and truth. To even suggest that there is no evidence of God's hand is to overlook the wisdom, prophecy and impact of the message. This is aside from the historical record of lsrael and the surrounding nations, which archaeology continues to bring to light and prove to be accurate.

IMO.

Redemptionsong · Sep 1, 2021

Nakosis said:
Nebuchadnezzar didn't remember the dream. Therefore Daniel didn't actually need to know what the King dreamed. The interpretation was about future events so no way for the King to verify anything claimed by Daniel.

Nebuchadnezzar did not initially remember the dream but it sounds like it came back to him when he heard Daniel's revelation and vision. Why else would he say what he says in Daniel 2:47?

The important point is that what was revealed can be interpreted and validated. There were four successive empires that match the dream, and most significantly, 'And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.' [Daniel 2:44]

There can be little doubt that this was a prophecy making 'known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter'. How else can one explain this foreknowledge except to say it comes from God? None of the wise men, astologers, magicians or soothsayers were able to reveal these things [Daniel 2:27].

Bird123 · Sep 1, 2021

QuestioningMind said:
It doesn't matter whether you believe God exists or not. You do already know God whether at this moment you do not know you know. There will come a time when it will all become clear to you again.

Do you honestly not see how childish that sounds? Fewer things are more pathetic than moronically claiming that you know what someone else knows better than they do.

As for claiming your subconscious is solving your problems, the question remains. Why isn't it solving more problems for you? Your subconscious solving your problems is mere speculation on your part as you can not come up with the real answer.

Wait a minute! If GOD solved your water leakage problem why isn't GOD solving all of your problems? Again, don't you see how pathetically childish such an argument is?

Like I said. It is what it is until one has knowledge to show otherwise.

The only thing we have knowledge of is that it came to you in a dream. Whether it came from God or your subconscious, we have no knowledge, yet you've foolishly decided to attribute it to God.

Did I really attribute it to God? Didn't I say that I would only attribute it to God if God delivered it personally?

As for God solving problems, God will give His children anything as long as it does not interfere with their lessons or anyone else's lessons.

As for you knowing God whether you know you know God or not, this might sound childish, however, in time, you will discover this to be true.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

QuestioningMind · Sep 1, 2021

Bird123 said:
Did I really attribute it to God? Didn't I say that I would only attribute it to God if God delivered it personally?

As for God solving problems, God will give His children anything as long as it does not interfere with their lessons or anyone else's lessons.

As for you knowing God whether you know you know God or not, this might sound childish, however, in time, you will discover this to be true.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

You claim to believe in a god, but deep in your heart you really know it's all make-believe. You're just too afraid to admit it. Someday you'll work up the courage to face the truth.

Not only does the above SOUND childish, it actually IS childish.

sealchan · Sep 2, 2021

Redemptionsong said:
Have you ever had a dream or vision that you believe was given to you by God?

What makes you believe the dream/vision was from God?

What was the content of the dream or vision, and what do you think it meant?

Joel 2:28 and Acts 2:17 speak of such divine revelations occurring 'in the last days'.

I'm going to be lazy and post this thread...because it really answers your OP in my case:

The God Dream

sealchan · Sep 2, 2021

firedragon said:
I honestly had a dream that was more than a revelation. It was the strangest, most bewildering thing. My dream was about a person and if I even gave any attention to what was revealed I would have saved at least 3 to 4 years of my life, and so much money, and so many things I cant even muster to say here.

Yet I dont know if its God or my own subconscious that noted something I could not dream of noting. If its just psychology, the mind or brain or whatever is just out of this world. Unbelievable.

You don't really have to choose between if it is God or "just psychology" IMO. My link in this thread to another thread argues that God is an objective feature of the human psyche. The mind is what the brain does and there is a class of experience that maps to what is described in the story of Abram/Abraham in Genesis. The author(s) of Genesis were familiar with this type of dream/revelation experience because it actually has occurred for people throughout human history.

Its a wonderful mystery of life and a rare, or at least, uncommon experience. Mine occurred when I was about Jesus' age. I wonder if these sorts of things tend to happen in the late twenties, early thirties.

sealchan · Sep 2, 2021

We Never Know said:
So can you say with 100% surety that you have never seen the face(s) you dream of in a book, movie, passing in the street, etc?

"Our mind is not inventing faces – in our dreams, we see real faces of real people that we have seen during our life but may not know or remember. We have all seen hundreds of thousands of faces throughout our lives, so we have an endless supply of characters for our brain to utilize during our dreams.

I think that dreams can take a remembered face, which is probably imperfectly remembered, and alter it. Given the hardware and software that is the brain, it is hard to imagine we ever dream of anyone's face exactly or ever the same way twice.

firedragon · Sep 2, 2021

sealchan said:
You don't really have to choose between if it is God or "just psychology" IMO. My link in this thread to another thread argues that God is an objective feature of the human psyche. The mind is what the brain does and there is a class of experience that maps to what is described in the story of Abram/Abraham in Genesis. The author(s) of Genesis were familiar with this type of dream/revelation experience because it actually has occurred for people throughout human history.

Its a wonderful mystery of life and a rare, or at least, uncommon experience. Mine occurred when I was about Jesus' age. I wonder if these sorts of things tend to happen in the late twenties, early thirties.

I am not choosing anything brother. I am just not assuming. Yet I thank you for your post.

Clara Tea · Sep 2, 2021

Nakosis said:
Sure, people who have become very good at listening to their subconscious intuition.

But the information has to come from somewhere. ESP seems to prove that there is something going on that we cannot account for.

Nakosis · Sep 2, 2021

Clara Tea said:
But the information has to come from somewhere. ESP seems to prove that there is something going on that we cannot account for.

Sure, the subconscious mind has extra sensory perception. It can perceive well beyond what we are consciously aware of.
The question is, I suppose whether there is a necessary magical. supernatural, or perhaps divine element.

Bird123 · Sep 2, 2021

QuestioningMind said:
You claim to believe in a god, but deep in your heart you really know it's all make-believe. You're just too afraid to admit it. Someday you'll work up the courage to face the truth.

Not only does the above SOUND childish, it actually IS childish.

God is not a Belief to me. I know God actually exists because along my journey to Discover what the actual truth was, I received a visit from God.

If you base God on what religions are teaching, I understand where you are coming from. I have found no religion that actually understands God at all.

That is what I see. It's very clear!!

QuestioningMind · Sep 2, 2021

Bird123 said:
God is not a Belief to me. I know God actually exists because along my journey to Discover what the actual truth was, I received a visit from God.

If you base God on what religions are teaching, I understand where you are coming from. I have found no religion that actually understands God at all.

That is what I see. It's very clear!!

No you don't. Deep in your heart you know it's not true and you are just pretending. Don't argue, because I definitely know what you think and believe better that you do.

Muffled · Sep 3, 2021

Redemptionsong said:
Have you ever had a dream or vision that you believe was given to you by God?

What makes you believe the dream/vision was from God?

What was the content of the dream or vision, and what do you think it meant?

Joel 2:28 and Acts 2:17 speak of such divine revelations occurring 'in the last days'.

I believe I have had both.

I believe it is a matter of whom I am receptive.

There was one where I was separated from family. This was precognitive. It did happen.

Muffled · Sep 3, 2021

anna b. said:
I don't believe dreams and visions come from God. The significance of a dream comes from our interpretation of it, the meaning we assign to it. Dreams result from the essential housecleaning the brain does every night while we sleep, sweeping and sorting and storing or discarding billions of bits of the sensory inflow we experience, deciding what to keep and assign to long term memory, what to discard. These bits also contain memories of our emotions: what worried, annoyed, angered us, what gave us joy, contentment, satisfaction.

I believe the Bible says something different from what you believe. I prefer to believe what God says about it rather than someone with limited knowledge and experience.

Dreams and Visions

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