• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

catholics, orthodox, and protestants: can you explain the trinity?

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
[QUOTE="Dogknox20, post: 7304293, member: 68557"]....In the beginning was God.. The Father & The Word!
The WORD was GOD!
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.....[/QUOTE]

No, because Psalms 90:2 teaches God was Not in the beginning, but is from everlasting ( No beginning ).
Psalms 93:2 ( 92:2 Douay) says about God; from everlasting you are,.....
From all eternity is God according to Isaiah 40:28 ( Eternal God/ Creator )
Habakkuk 1:12..... from eternity ...holy God, immortal. ( Immortal means: death proof or can't die )

What is the equality between two family members? is it not brothers _______
I find No where in the Bible stating that 'God and Jesus are brothers'.
Rather, I find the Bible stipulates that God is the Father and Jesus is the Son.
 

Dogknox20

Well-Known Member
And who sent the Word to us from heaven__________
Without using John 1 what other verses is John using to say Jesus is God or God Jesus __________
URAVIP2ME I hope all is well..
You ask for verses.....
Matthew 1:23 “The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel” (which means “God with us).

GOD WITH US!


Luke 1:43 But why am I so favored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
Elizabeth is Jew she has only ONE LORD... God! (mother of my God) NOT...
URAVIP2ME
not one verse in Luke chapter 1 does the word "LORD" not mean God!

John 20:28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!
Who is Thomas' GOD!


Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.
In this verse (above) WHO ...

URAVIP2ME who is the "Lord"?! What doe the word "Immanuel" mean!?

Isaiah 8:7 therefore the Lord is about to bring against them
the mighty floodwaters of the Euphrates

the king of Assyria with all his pomp.
It will overflow all its channels,
run over all its banks
8 and sweep on into Judah, swirling over it,
passing through it and reaching up to the neck.
Its outspread wings will cover the breadth of your land,
Immanuel!


URAVIP2ME above verse...Who is it that is about to bring against them
the mighty floodwaters of the Euphrates-

URAVIP2ME above verse.. Who owns the Breadth Of The Land!?

John 10:30 I and the Father are one.
Because Jesus is fully man, it would be appropriate to say the Father would be greater than the Son. “Everything that belongs to the Father, except being Father, the Son has also eternally from the Father, from whom he is eternally born” ....In this sense, the Father can be said to be greater than the Son relationally, while they are absolutely equal with regard to their essence as God.
John 14:28 “The Father is greater than I”as man.

“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end . . .
Jesus to be the source of God’s creation—God himself.
Colossians 1:15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.
17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

Paul calls Jesus Creator of all things. Jesus is God.

Genesis 1:1 tells us, “In the beginning God created . . .” The conclusion: Jesus is God!
URAVIP2M There is NO way around it..... Elizabeth tells you .... Mary is the mother of her God!
 

Dogknox20

Well-Known Member
[QUOTE="Dogknox20, post: 7304293, member: 68557"]....In the beginning was God.. The Father & The Word!
The WORD was GOD!
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.....

No, because Psalms 90:2 teaches God was Not in the beginning, but is from everlasting ( No beginning ).
Psalms 93:2 ( 92:2 Douay) says about God; from everlasting you are,.....
From all eternity is God according to Isaiah 40:28 ( Eternal God/ Creator )
Habakkuk 1:12..... from eternity ...holy God, immortal. ( Immortal means: death proof or can't die )

What is the equality between two family members? is it not brothers _______
I find No where in the Bible stating that 'God and Jesus are brothers'.
Rather, I find the Bible stipulates that God is the Father and Jesus is the Son.[/QUOTE]
.
URAVIP2ME Why did you stop at verse 1? Keep reading...
2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

Genesis 1:1 tells us, “In the beginning God created . . . QUESTION... Did the "WORD" make ALL THINGS!? 3 Through him all things were made; Genesis 1:1 tells us,In the beginning God created . . .

and the Word was God... The WORD created all things..... Genesis 1:1 In the beginning GOD CREATED.....!

URAVIP2ME.... 14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. The WORD created all things.....Became Flesh! The WORD that created all things LIVED AMONG US!


1 Peter 2:9 But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.
Rev 22:5 There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever.

Jesus The Lord God gives them LIGHT!
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
URAVIP2ME I hope all is well..
You ask for verses.....
Matthew 1:23 “The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel” (which means “God with us).

GOD WITH US!


Luke 1:43 But why am I so favored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
Elizabeth is Jew she has only ONE LORD... God! (mother of my God) NOT...
URAVIP2ME
not one verse in Luke chapter 1 does the word "LORD" not mean God!

John 20:28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!
Who is Thomas' GOD!


Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.
In this verse (above) WHO ...

URAVIP2ME who is the "Lord"?! What doe the word "Immanuel" mean!?

Isaiah 8:7 therefore the Lord is about to bring against them
the mighty floodwaters of the Euphrates

the king of Assyria with all his pomp.
It will overflow all its channels,
run over all its banks
8 and sweep on into Judah, swirling over it,
passing through it and reaching up to the neck.
Its outspread wings will cover the breadth of your land,
Immanuel!


URAVIP2ME above verse...Who is it that is about to bring against them
the mighty floodwaters of the Euphrates-

URAVIP2ME above verse.. Who owns the Breadth Of The Land!?

John 10:30 I and the Father are one.
Because Jesus is fully man, it would be appropriate to say the Father would be greater than the Son. “Everything that belongs to the Father, except being Father, the Son has also eternally from the Father, from whom he is eternally born” ....In this sense, the Father can be said to be greater than the Son relationally, while they are absolutely equal with regard to their essence as God.
John 14:28 “The Father is greater than I”as man.

“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end . . .
Jesus to be the source of God’s creation—God himself.
Colossians 1:15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.
17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
Paul calls Jesus Creator of all things. Jesus is God.
Genesis 1:1 tells us, “In the beginning God created . . .” The conclusion: Jesus is God!
URAVIP2M There is NO way around it..... Elizabeth tells you .... Mary is the mother of her God!

Yes, ' with God ', and when you are ' with ' someone you are Not that person that you are with.
Yes, Mary was the virgin mother of Jesus. Luke 1:36 states that Mary and Elizabeth are cousins.
John the Baptist is 6 months older than Jesus, that makes John and Jesus second cousins.
Luke 3:23 let us know Jesus was baptized by John.
This makes John 6 months older than God, and that man was here on earth thousands of years before God was born.
At Luke 3:21-22 then John had the privilege of baptizing his Creator, who was his second cousin.
Since John saw God's spirit (dove) rest down on Jesus' head then God is a Bird sitting on a man's head or a bird sitting on top of what looks like a man, or is it the other way around? This God-Bird (dove) then would also be a ventriloquist because he doesn't want people to know he is really God so he throws his voice to make it appear as if someone in Heaven is speaking and saying that this is my Son.....
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
No, because Psalms 90:2 teaches God was Not in the beginning, but is from everlasting ( No beginning ).
Psalms 93:2 ( 92:2 Douay) says about God; from everlasting you are,.....
From all eternity is God according to Isaiah 40:28 ( Eternal God/ Creator )
Habakkuk 1:12..... from eternity ...holy God, immortal. ( Immortal means: death proof or can't die )
What is the equality between two family members? is it not brothers _______
I find No where in the Bible stating that 'God and Jesus are brothers'.
Rather, I find the Bible stipulates that God is the Father and Jesus is the Son.
URAVIP2ME Why did you stop at verse 1? Keep reading...
2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.
Genesis 1:1 tells us, “In the beginning God created . . . QUESTION... Did the "WORD" make ALL THINGS!? 3 Through him all things were made; Genesis 1:1 tells us,In the beginning God created . . .
and the Word was God... The WORD created all things..... Genesis 1:1 In the beginning GOD CREATED.....!
URAVIP2ME.... 14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. The WORD created all things.....Became Flesh! The WORD that created all things LIVED AMONG US!
1 Peter 2:9 But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.
Rev 22:5 There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever.
Jesus The Lord God gives them LIGHT![/QUOTE]

Yes, ' through' Jesus, or that the God of Jesus created ' through' His only-begotten heavenly Son.
This is why we find the word ' us ' at Genesis 1:26. God is Not alone in that verse.

Yes, the Word (God's spokesman) became flesh because his God sent pre-human heavenly Jesus to Earth for us.
So, when Jesus was born as a human, he was No longer a spirit person and rightfully say of himself 'Son of man'.
If God was in Mary's womb for nine months, what could have stopped sinner Satan from trying to rule Heaven?
God did Not empty Himself but it was pre-human heavenly Jesus - Philippians 2:7
Because God is from 'everlasting to everlasting' (No beginning, No end ) God always existed.
God can Not die, but Jesus died - Hebrews 2:14 - that through Jesus' death he will bring the devil to nothing.
 

Dogknox20

Well-Known Member
Yes, ' with God ', and when you are ' with ' someone you are Not that person that you are with.
Yes, Mary was the virgin mother of Jesus. Luke 1:36 states that Mary and Elizabeth are cousins.
John the Baptist is 6 months older than Jesus, that makes John and Jesus second cousins.
Luke 3:23 let us know Jesus was baptized by John.
This makes John 6 months older than God, and that man was here on earth thousands of years before God was born.
At Luke 3:21-22 then John had the privilege of baptizing his Creator, who was his second cousin.
Since John saw God's spirit (dove) rest down on Jesus' head then God is a Bird sitting on a man's head or a bird sitting on top of what looks like a man, or is it the other way around? This God-Bird (dove) then would also be a ventriloquist because he doesn't want people to know he is really God so he throws his voice to make it appear as if someone in Heaven is speaking and saying that this is my Son.....

URAVIP2ME This is the difference... Christians worship Jesus because Jesus is God!
Christians have FAITH! It takes faith to believe in Jesus!
The Christian God is almighty he can take any form he wants to take!
God can take the form of Fire, Smoke, Silence, Dove, Man and yes even Bread and Wine! Our God is different then yours.. Your god is NOT almighty, you have placed your god in a box he has limits on what he can and can not do!

URAVIP2ME The Christian has faith in the words of God...
"God with us" means "God is with us"! His name, the name of Jesus is "God with us"!
THINK...Elizabeth .. is A JEW.. Jews believes in only ONE GOD! No Jew would accept two gods' and especially when Elizabeth's husband is a High Priest! "Mother of my LORD"! can only mean "Mother of my God"! Otherwise what would Elizabeth's means by "my Lord" be? EVERY....

URAVIP2ME
every place in the whole chapter of Luke 1 where the word "LORD" is used it means GOD!
NOT one place does the word "Lord" not mean GOD!
Luke 1:16 He will bring back many of the people of Israel to the Lord their God.
17 And he will go on before the Lord, in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the parents to their children and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous—to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.”
25The Lord has done this for me,” she said. “In these days he has shown his favor and taken away my disgrace among the people.”
28 The angel went to her and said, “Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you.”
32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David,
38 “I am the Lord’s servant,” Mary answered. “May your word to me be fulfilled.” Then the angel left her.
43 But why am I so favored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
45 Blessed is she who has believed that the Lord would fulfill his promises to her!”
etc
etc
Not one place in the whole chapter does the word "LORD" not mean "God"!

Luke 1:28 (above) "The LORD is with Mary." means God is with Mary!
Luke 1:43 "Mother of my LORD!"
 

Dogknox20

Well-Known Member
Good to meet you..
I reply.. God is LOVE! The scriptures tell you "God is LOVE!
Regiomontanus God is perfect if he was NOT perfect he would NOT be God! Perfect Love is "Love for another"! CAN'T......

Regiomontanus
can't love yourself because love of self is not prefect, love if self is selfishness! God is perfect so he needs another to love; to be Perfect!
If there is LOVE there is TWO (2).. Two are needed to love! To be PERFECT in love you need two at least!

To be PERFECT in love you need two at least!

Regiomontanus "In the beginning...

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
. 2 He was with God in the beginning.
3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
.
14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.

Regiomontanus the WORD was God.. The word was made man and lived among us!
Jesus the WORD is God; he was with God from the beginning.. Jesus the WORD was made man!

Perfect love creates.... The love of God means there is fruit coming from their love.. Thus the Holy Spirit is God!
1) Father
2) Son Jesus/WORD
3) Holy Spirit... The result of perfect love!
If there is a PERFECT.. LOVING God there needs to be three (3)
 

PearlSeeker

Well-Known Member
Perfect love creates.... The love of God means there is fruit coming from their love.. Thus the Holy Spirit is God!
1) Father
2) Son Jesus/WORD
3) Holy Spirit... The result of perfect love!
If there is a PERFECT.. LOVING God there needs to be three (3)
Theologians rather say that the Holy Spirit is love itself between the two (Father and Son).
 

Dogknox20

Well-Known Member
Theologians rather say that the Holy Spirit is love itself between the two (Father and Son).
Hello PearlSeeker good to meet you..
Yes I agree... Holy Spirit is love itself between the two... As pointed out (above) perfect love creates; the perfect love of the Father and Son produced the Holy Spirit.. The result of perfect love!
God is Love!

1 John 4:8
Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.

1 John 4:16
And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.

God is perfect...... Love is = Giving of self completely to another... Luke 22:42Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.

Jesus loves the Father the Father loves the son! Their love is complete perfect they are GOD!
PearlSeeker The love of the Husband and Wife creates!
25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.
28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself.
29 After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church— 30 for we are members of his body.
31 “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.”
32 This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church
.

God is perfect if he did not love another he would NOT be perfect thus.....
Thus God is two (2) perfect love produces fruit...thus there are three (3)

21 The Lord God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them. 22 And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”

One of us..(Plural)
Adam was remove from heaven because he did NOT love God!
God COMMANDED the man! 16 And the Lord God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden;
1 John 3:24
The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.
1 John 5:3
In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,
John 14:15
“If you love me, keep my commands.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
URAVIP2ME This is the difference... Christians worship Jesus because Jesus is God!
Christians have FAITH! It takes faith to believe in Jesus!
The Christian God is almighty he can take any form he wants to take!
God can take the form of Fire, Smoke, Silence, Dove, Man and yes even Bread and Wine! Our God is different then yours.. Your god is NOT almighty, you have placed your god in a box he has limits on what he can and can not do!
URAVIP2ME The Christian has faith in the words of God...
"God with us" means "God is with us"! His name, the name of Jesus is "God with us"!
THINK...Elizabeth .. is A JEW.. Jews believes in only ONE GOD! No Jew would accept two gods' and especially when Elizabeth's husband is a High Priest! "Mother of my LORD"! can only mean "Mother of my God"! Otherwise what would Elizabeth's means by "my Lord" be? EVERY....
URAVIP2ME
every place in the whole chapter of Luke 1 where the word "LORD" is used it means GOD!
NOT one place does the word "Lord" not mean GOD!
Luke 1:16 He will bring back many of the people of Israel to the Lord their God.
17 And he will go on before the Lord, in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the parents to their children and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous—to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.”
25The Lord has done this for me,” she said. “In these days he has shown his favor and taken away my disgrace among the people.”
28 The angel went to her and said, “Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you.”
32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David,
38 “I am the Lord’s servant,” Mary answered. “May your word to me be fulfilled.” Then the angel left her.
43 But why am I so favored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
45 Blessed is she who has believed that the Lord would fulfill his promises to her!”
Not one place in the whole chapter does the word "LORD" not mean "God"!
Luke 1:28 (above) "The LORD is with Mary." means God is with Mary!
Luke 1:43 "Mother of my LORD!"

Genuine 'wheat' Christians worship God just as Jesus instructed at -> John 4:23-24.
Jesus said true worshippers will worship -> the Father....... (No where does Jesus say he is the Father )
Jesus continues that the Father seeks people to worship Him (the Father)

I see you stressed the word 'LORD and Lord ' with No mention of the Most High.
I find at Luke 1:32 that Jesus would be called the Son of Jesus?, or called the 'Son of the Most High ________
At Luke 1:35 I read that the holy spirit would come upon Mary and the power of the 'Most High' would overshadow Mary...... the one born would be called the Son of God ( Does Not say God the Son )
Pregnant Elizabeth (Luke 1:41) was filled with the holy spirit ( does Not imply filled with Jesus/God )
At Luke 1:67 it does Not say Zachary was filled with Jesus, but filled with: holy spirit.
Luke 1:76 says the child would be prophet of the ' Most High'.
If God was in Mary's womb for 9 months, wouldn't Satan try to take over Heaven _________
Since Mary was God's creation, then how could Mary give birth to the Creator ____________
Jesus gives credit at Revelation 4:11 to 'O Lord our God '......( Jesus would be part of the our )
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
......................21 The Lord God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them. 22 And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”
One of us..(Plural)
Adam was remove from heaven because he did NOT love God!
God COMMANDED the man! 16 And the Lord God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden;......................

Yes, 'one of us' (plural - Genesis 1:26 - God was speaking to His first creation - Colossians 1:15)
In the Bible Adam was NEVER in Heaven.
Adam was formed or fashioned from the dust of the Ground and returned to the ground (Genesis 2:7; Genesis 3:19)
A person does Not ' return ' to a place he never was before. Adam returned back to the dust of the ground.
Adam and Eve were free to eat from any tree except for the ' tree of knowledge of good and evil '.
The good was: life, the evil was: death, as we can read at Deuteronomy 30:15
When God's law would be broken then they would know evil/death.
Before breaking God's Law they only knew the good / the life. ( offer of everlasting life on Earth, Not Heaven )
Only after breaking God's Law, then God made them garments of skin such as deer skin.
After breaking God's then they would know the bad evil death.
 

Dogknox20

Well-Known Member
Genuine 'wheat' Christians worship God just as Jesus instructed at -> John 4:23-24.
Jesus said true worshippers will worship -> the Father....... (No where does Jesus say he is the Father )
Jesus continues that the Father seeks people to worship Him (the Father)

I see you stressed the word 'LORD and Lord ' with No mention of the Most High.
I find at Luke 1:32 that Jesus would be called the Son of Jesus?, or called the 'Son of the Most High ________
At Luke 1:35 I read that the holy spirit would come upon Mary and the power of the 'Most High' would overshadow Mary...... the one born would be called the Son of God ( Does Not say God the Son )
Pregnant Elizabeth (Luke 1:41) was filled with the holy spirit ( does Not imply filled with Jesus/God )
At Luke 1:67 it does Not say Zachary was filled with Jesus, but filled with: holy spirit.
Luke 1:76 says the child would be prophet of the ' Most High'.
If God was in Mary's womb for 9 months, wouldn't Satan try to take over Heaven _________
Since Mary was God's creation, then how could Mary give birth to the Creator ____________
Jesus gives credit at Revelation 4:11 to 'O Lord our God '......( Jesus would be part of the our )
.
URAVIP2ME how are you.. You ask many question ... "
35 The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.
Verse 35 is telling you "The Holy Spirit is God!"...The Holy Spirit will come on you....will be called the Son of God.

Jews have ONLY one God... Zechariah is a high priest the Husband of Elizabeth never would he say the Lord is NOT God!! WHO...
URAVIP2ME
who is Zechariah praising?
Zechariah’s Song
67 His father Zechariah was filled with the Holy Spirit and prophesied:
68 “Praise be to the Lord, the God of Israel
,

Who does Elizbeth say Mary is the Mother of!? ALSO..

URAVIP2ME
also you pointed out...Jesus said true worshippers will worship -> the Father.......
I add; Jesus told Satan "Worship ONLY God!"

Matthew 4:10 Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’”
Clearly "Worship is ONLY for God" Jesus knows beyond all doubt "Worship is ONLY for God" Jesus would be sinning if he accepted worship and he was NOT God! Jesus would be worse then Satan because Jesus is sinless!

Matthew 14:33 Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.
Jesus does NOT stop the worship! Jesus does NOT correct them!
Jesus does NOT say "Don't worship me I am not God worship is ONLY for God"! Because Jesus is God he accepts the worship ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’”
NEVER do you read in any scriptures Jesus stopping anyone from worshipping him!


Matthew 28:9 Suddenly Jesus met them. “Greetings,” he said. They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him.
URAVIP2ME Jesus does NOT stop the worship! Jesus does NOT correct them!


Matthew 28:17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted.
URAVIP2ME Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’” Jesus KNOWS worship is ONLY for God! These Christians worship Jesus!


John 20:28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!
Jesus does NOT correct Thomas... Fact is making it even more clear...Jesus tells Thomas those coming after him will be blessed because they have not seen Jesus as Thomas has!
29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.

QUESTION what does Thomas believe? What are those "Christians" coming after Thomas will believe!?
Christians worship Jesus because: Jesus is God! Christians have always worshiped Jesus the Apostles are Christians "Christ Followers!"
Christians have a "Cross" as a symbol of the Christian faith NOT a stick!
URAVIP2ME Mary is the Mother of God, Christians have always taught this truth!
Irenaeus
The Virgin Mary, being obedient to his word, received from an angel the glad tidings that she would bear God(Against Heresies, 5:19:1 [A.D. 189]).

It looks like anyone who disagrees with Irenaeus he would call a Heretic!
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
.
URAVIP2ME how are you.. You ask many question ... "
35 The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.
Verse 35 is telling you "The Holy Spirit is God!"...The Holy Spirit will come on you....will be called the Son of God.

Jews have ONLY one God... Zechariah is a high priest the Husband of Elizabeth never would he say the Lord is NOT God!! WHO...
URAVIP2ME
who is Zechariah praising?
Zechariah’s Song
67 His father Zechariah was filled with the Holy Spirit and prophesied:
68 “Praise be to the Lord, the God of Israel
,

Who does Elizbeth say Mary is the Mother of!? ALSO..

URAVIP2ME
also you pointed out...Jesus said true worshippers will worship -> the Father.......
I add; Jesus told Satan "Worship ONLY God!"

Matthew 4:10 Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’”
Clearly "Worship is ONLY for God" Jesus knows beyond all doubt "Worship is ONLY for God" Jesus would be sinning if he accepted worship and he was NOT God! Jesus would be worse then Satan because Jesus is sinless!

Matthew 14:33 Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.
Jesus does NOT stop the worship! Jesus does NOT correct them!
Jesus does NOT say "Don't worship me I am not God worship is ONLY for God"! Because Jesus is God he accepts the worship ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’”
NEVER do you read in any scriptures Jesus stopping anyone from worshipping him!


Matthew 28:9 Suddenly Jesus met them. “Greetings,” he said. They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him.
URAVIP2ME Jesus does NOT stop the worship! Jesus does NOT correct them!


Matthew 28:17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted.
URAVIP2ME Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’” Jesus KNOWS worship is ONLY for God! These Christians worship Jesus!


John 20:28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!
Jesus does NOT correct Thomas... Fact is making it even more clear...Jesus tells Thomas those coming after him will be blessed because they have not seen Jesus as Thomas has!
29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.

QUESTION what does Thomas believe? What are those "Christians" coming after Thomas will believe!?
Christians worship Jesus because: Jesus is God! Christians have always worshiped Jesus the Apostles are Christians "Christ Followers!"
Christians have a "Cross" as a symbol of the Christian faith NOT a stick!
URAVIP2ME Mary is the Mother of God, Christians have always taught this truth!
Irenaeus
The Virgin Mary, being obedient to his word, received from an angel the glad tidings that she would bear God(Against Heresies, 5:19:1 [A.D. 189]).

It looks like anyone who disagrees with Irenaeus he would call a Heretic!

To say the holy spirit is God, then you are saying a Bird-God was on Jesus' head at baptism.
God's spirit (Psalm 104:30 / 103:30 Douay) is a neuter "IT" at Numbers 11:17; Numbers 11:25.
A neuter is Not a person, Not a spirit person, but a neuter is an "IT".
Sure some Bible versions have taken the liberty to remove the word "IT" but that does Not make God's spirit a person.

Yes, the Jews only have one God, just as heavenly and earthly Jesus only has one God.
Even pre-human heavenly Jesus only had one God, one Father, one Creator - Revelation 4:11.
That one God is the God who sent His heavenly first creation to Earth for us.
This is why Jesus also instructed as to who should be worshipped at John 4:23-24.
Yes, that includes that Satan should worship the same God that Jesus' worships.
Even the resurrected ascended-to-heaven Jesus still think he has a God over him as per John at Revelation 3:12.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
.
URAVIP2ME how are you.. You ask many question ... "
35 The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.
Verse 35 is telling you "The Holy Spirit is God!"...The Holy Spirit will come on you....will be called the Son of God.

Jews have ONLY one God... Zechariah is a high priest the Husband of Elizabeth never would he say the Lord is NOT God!! WHO...
URAVIP2ME
who is Zechariah praising?
Zechariah’s Song
67 His father Zechariah was filled with the Holy Spirit and prophesied:
68 “Praise be to the Lord, the God of Israel
,

Who does Elizbeth say Mary is the Mother of!? ALSO..

URAVIP2ME
also you pointed out...Jesus said true worshippers will worship -> the Father.......
I add; Jesus told Satan "Worship ONLY God!"

Matthew 4:10 Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’”
Clearly "Worship is ONLY for God" Jesus knows beyond all doubt "Worship is ONLY for God" Jesus would be sinning if he accepted worship and he was NOT God! Jesus would be worse then Satan because Jesus is sinless!

Matthew 14:33 Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.
Jesus does NOT stop the worship! Jesus does NOT correct them!
Jesus does NOT say "Don't worship me I am not God worship is ONLY for God"! Because Jesus is God he accepts the worship ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’”
NEVER do you read in any scriptures Jesus stopping anyone from worshipping him!


Matthew 28:9 Suddenly Jesus met them. “Greetings,” he said. They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him.
URAVIP2ME Jesus does NOT stop the worship! Jesus does NOT correct them!


Matthew 28:17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted.
URAVIP2ME Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’” Jesus KNOWS worship is ONLY for God! These Christians worship Jesus!


John 20:28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!
Jesus does NOT correct Thomas... Fact is making it even more clear...Jesus tells Thomas those coming after him will be blessed because they have not seen Jesus as Thomas has!
29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.

QUESTION what does Thomas believe? What are those "Christians" coming after Thomas will believe!?
Christians worship Jesus because: Jesus is God! Christians have always worshiped Jesus the Apostles are Christians "Christ Followers!"
Christians have a "Cross" as a symbol of the Christian faith NOT a stick!
URAVIP2ME Mary is the Mother of God, Christians have always taught this truth!
Irenaeus
The Virgin Mary, being obedient to his word, received from an angel the glad tidings that she would bear God(Against Heresies, 5:19:1 [A.D. 189]).

It looks like anyone who disagrees with Irenaeus he would call a Heretic!
If Mary is the Mother of God then God was in Mary womb for nine months.
With God inside of Mary's womb then Satan would have known that and caused trouble in Heaven
 

Dogknox20

Well-Known Member
To say the holy spirit is God, then you are saying a Bird-God was on Jesus' head at baptism.
God's spirit (Psalm 104:30 / 103:30 Douay) is a neuter "IT" at Numbers 11:17; Numbers 11:25.
A neuter is Not a person, Not a spirit person, but a neuter is an "IT".
Sure some Bible versions have taken the liberty to remove the word "IT" but that does Not make God's spirit a person.

Yes, the Jews only have one God, just as heavenly and earthly Jesus only has one God.
Even pre-human heavenly Jesus only had one God, one Father, one Creator - Revelation 4:11.
That one God is the God who sent His heavenly first creation to Earth for us.
This is why Jesus also instructed as to who should be worshipped at John 4:23-24.
Yes, that includes that Satan should worship the same God that Jesus' worships.
Even the resurrected ascended-to-heaven Jesus still think he has a God over him as per John at Revelation 3:12.
Hello URAVIP2ME I hope all is well...
I reply... Christians worship Jesus because: Jesus is God!
Jesus lets them worship him he does NOT stop anyone from worshipping him! The wise men at his birth worship him.. The Apostles worship Him as he rises up into heaven!

Worship him who made the heavens, the earth, the sea and the springs of water.
Revelations 14:7
He said in a loud voice, “Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come. Worship him who made the heavens, the earth, the sea and the springs of water.

Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

URAVIP2ME Jesus made everything..... Worship him who made everything!
Scriptures tell you.... "Jesus is God".. Thomas tells you... "Jesus is God"! Jesus tells Thomas and YOU..... All who believe Jesus is God are blessed!

URAVIP2ME The God of the Christian is almighty.. Clearly your god (Small "g") is not! Your god cannot take any form he wants to take! Your god cannot take the form of a Burning bush, Smoke, Fire, Pure Silence, Dove , a Man, or Bread! Christians have always worshiped Jesus because Jesus is God! Thomas the Apostle is a Christian!
You said... earthly Jesus only has one God... Right you are, the MAN Jesus had a God in heaven, Jesus is a lowly man; men are made lower then angels! Jesus "The Man" was formed created in Mary's womb lower then the Angles! Jesus the MAN on EARTH... All men are lower then angels ON EARTH! All men die because "ALL MEN have sin!" ALL MEN Jesus is the exception he is the second man to not have sin Adam was the first!

6 But there is a place where someone has testified:
“What is mankind that you are mindful of them,
a son of man that you care for him?
7 You made them a little lower than the angels;
you crowned them with glory and honor
8 and put everything under their feet
.

IN HEAVEN all men are raised to a higher level then the angels!
 

Dogknox20

Well-Known Member
If Mary is the Mother of God then God was in Mary womb for nine months.
With God inside of Mary's womb then Satan would have known that and caused trouble in Heaven
.
URAVIP2ME you have some good questions...
Think about this.. Jesus had to die.. He came to earth to die! Can't die a MAN if first not born a Man! Follow me.... Adam the first perfect man sinned and died! God does everything perfectly.. If God did not build his creation perfectly then he would not be perfect, he would not be God! Adam was created PERFECT>>> NO SIN! This PERFECT Man freely with "Free Choice" decided to sin!
God is LOVE.. God made man in his image.. Only Man can love, only man is made in God' image! TO LOVE you need Free Choice! Love must be given freely or it is not true love! WHEN.....

URAVIP2ME when God made man in his image he had to give us "Free Choice" he knew there would be some that would freely chose not to love! "Adam was the first not to chose love!" Adam did not love God so he was removed from the garden ONLY those who love can enter heaven! Adams sin wrecked God' prefect creation; "Sin entered Creation", all of Adams descendants: all men have a genealogy back to Adam the first Prefect Man who sinned! NOW...

URAVIP2ME
now today all of us are born into a corrupt creation a creation where sin and DEATH abounds!
In a nut shell....
The Wages of sin is death! All people sin so all die! Man needed to destroy death, we needed another perfect man to LOVE God, to not sin!
URAVIP2ME Man was stuck between a rock and a hard spot.... all men are sinners, all are born sinners! ONLY God is perfect.. God himself came to fix what Adam lost! God became part of his own creation! Jesus was born perfect and he died perfect with NO SIN! DEATH could not hold him in the grave! Jesus rose up out of the tomb because death had no hold on him... The Wages of sin is death! Now what we have to do is; get our sorry asess IMMERSED into the risen body of Jesus! Jesus cannot die a second time Jesus lives forever for eternity, all peoples IMMERSED into the Holy Risen Body of Jesus will also live forever!
LOOK.. 21 The Lord God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them. 22 And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.

URAVIP2ME "US".. Plural more then one! Jesus is the way the truth and "The LIFE!"
Jesus feeds Catholic' TRUE Manna come down from heaven! All who eat Jesus' risen flesh has life and remain "IN JESUS"! John 6

About Mary....
Mary is the Mother of God.. Jesus
Mary is the Spouse of God.. The Holy Spirit
Mary is a Child of God ....The Father!
Mary is the Mother of the Church.. "The Holy Body of Jesus"!

THINK.. The people of Moses carried the Holy Ark for 40 years as they moved in the wilderness!
Mary carried God for 40 weeks in her womb!

The Ark was Holy could not be touched by man!
Mary remained a Virgin untouched!

God told Moses to put the stone tablets with the Ten Commandments inside the ark. Hebrews 9:4 tells us that two other items were placed in the Ark: “a golden urn holding the manna, and Aaron’s rod that budded.” Notice the parallels: In the ark was the law of God inscribed in stone; in Mary’s womb was the Word of God in flesh.
In the ark was the urn of manna, the bread from heaven that kept God’s people alive in the wilderness; in Mary’s womb is the Bread of Life come down from heaven that brings eternal life.
In the ark was the rod of Aaron, the proof of true priesthood; in Mary’s womb is the true priest. Mary is truly an ark.

The Ark of the Covenant is in heaven! Revelations 11 “And a great portent appeared in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars; she was with child” .The woman is Mary, the Ark of the Covenant, revealed by God to John. She was seen bearing the child who would rule the world with a rod of iron (Rv 12:5). Mary was seen as the ark and as a queen.
 

Dogknox20

Well-Known Member
Does that mean the Holy Spirit is not coequal and coeternal?
firedragon simple answer is "NO"!

21 The Lord God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them. 22 And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.” 23 So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken.

"US" Plural.. More then one!

firedragon God is three; God would not be God without three (3)... Can't love yourself that is NOT LOVE! God is PERFECT! God is LOVE! To love you need another someone to love!

1 John 4:16 And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
firedragon simple answer is "NO"!

21 The Lord God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them. 22 And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.” 23 So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken.

"US" Plural.. More then one!

firedragon God is three; God would not be God without three (3)... Can't love yourself that is NOT LOVE! God is PERFECT! God is LOVE! To love you need another someone to love!

1 John 4:16 And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.

That does not answer the question.

Premise proposed: The Holy Spirit is the love between God and Jesus.
That means the Holy Spirit is not equal to God and Jesus.

If you didnt make that proposition, the question is not relevant to you. If you hold to that proposition, your answer is not relevant to the question I asked.

I hope you understand. Trying to prove the trinity with scripture does matter to this question. The question presupposes the Trinity is true.
 
Top