Can we talk about Snobs and Snobbery, please?

Please, moderators, could you put this thread in to the correct forum if it is out of place? Thank you.

What do you think about Snobbery? I was brought up in 50's England, and where the right voice could gain a much better job than the wrong voice, and a particular school tie really could get gain entry to the very best careers. I lived in a country that was so completely embraced by snobbery in so many thousands of ways that this subject could fill a sociologist's studies for a lifetime....I expect..

And now? Where I live? Kent, England in 2021 is still embraced by snobbery, it just shows its face in different ways today. Our children can tell you more about 'street cred' than I can, but I do assure you that if you haven't got the right clothes and shoes, the right reactions and voices, the right certificates and qualifications, the right gear, etc etc....... you will be the victim of modern snobbery.

And on RF? Have you ever noticed any posts that smacked of modern snobbery?

Over to you......................

oldbadger said:

Please, moderators, could you put this thread in to the correct forum if it is out of place? Thank you.

What do you think about Snobbery? I was brought up in 50's England, and where the right voice could gain a much better job than the wrong voice, and a particular school tie really could get gain entry to the very best careers. I lived in a country that was so completely embraced by snobbery in so many thousands of ways that this subject could fill a sociologist's studies for a lifetime....I expect..

And now? Where I live? Kent, England in 2021 is still embraced by snobbery, it just shows its face in different ways today. Our children can tell you more about 'street cred' than I can, but I do assure you that if you haven't got the right clothes and shoes, the right reactions and voices, the right certificates and qualifications, the right gear, etc etc....... you will be the victim of modern snobbery.

And on RF? Have you ever noticed any posts that smacked of modern snobbery?

Over to you......................

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Can one separate snobbery from judgement?

Almost everyone is 'snobbish' in some way (or perhaps better described as elitist) i.e. they wish to see themselves as being part of a select group that embodies certain desirable characteristics.

Atheists may look down on religious folks for 'clinging to their myths'
Theists may look down on atheists for being 'nihilistic' or 'hating god'
Progressives may look down on conservatives for being 'dumb and backward'
Conservatives may look down on progressives for 'hating their country and trying to be woke'
etc.

We all want to feel superior in some way.

Augustus said:

We all want to feel superior in some way.

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Not me. I'm above such petty concerns.

Erebus said:

Not me. I'm above such petty concerns.

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Snob.

#Snoblivesmatter

oldbadger said:

And on RF? Have you ever noticed any posts that smacked of modern snobbery?

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Yes. But it wasn't extreme, as I still let the non-Auatralians post, which was quite magnanimous of me. The little people can only be improved by exposure to my magnificence.

Hmm..that sounded a little more creepy than I was intending.
I'm blaming @Meow Mix . She convinced me to drink on a school night.

lewisnotmiller said:

Yes. But it wasn't extreme, as I still let the non-Auatralians post, which was quite magnanimous of me. The little people can only be improved by exposure to my magnificence.

Hmm..that sounded a little more creepy than I was intending.
I'm blaming @Meow Mix . She convinced me to drink on a school night.

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Always driving people to drink

Secret Chief said:

Can one separate snobbery from judgement?

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I don't know. Maybe other members can answer that question

OK..... So have any members noticed posts which showed inverted-snobbery?
If so I'll bet they were Ozzie's....

oldbadger said:

Please, moderators, could you put this thread in to the correct forum if it is out of place? Thank you.

What do you think about Snobbery? I was brought up in 50's England, and where the right voice could gain a much better job than the wrong voice, and a particular school tie really could get gain entry to the very best careers. I lived in a country that was so completely embraced by snobbery in so many thousands of ways that this subject could fill a sociologist's studies for a lifetime....I expect..

And now? Where I live? Kent, England in 2021 is still embraced by snobbery, it just shows its face in different ways today. Our children can tell you more about 'street cred' than I can, but I do assure you that if you haven't got the right clothes and shoes, the right reactions and voices, the right certificates and qualifications, the right gear, etc etc....... you will be the victim of modern snobbery.

And on RF? Have you ever noticed any posts that smacked of modern snobbery?

Over to you......................

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It's much harder to sense from words on a screen, but yes, I've felt condescending tones. Of course I could well be dead wrong. Are the kinds of snobs you refer to the types that would go on an internet forum?

Vinayaka said:

It's much harder to sense from words on a screen, but yes, I've felt condescending tones. Of course I could well be dead wrong. Are the kinds of snobs you refer to the types that would go on an internet forum?

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Well it ain't us Deists! We're all a really balanced crowd, not like them yukky agnostics!

Anyway.... atheists won't let us deists in their club....... snotty lot!

....... ooops!

oldbadger said:

Please, moderators, could you put this thread in to the correct forum if it is out of place? Thank you.

What do you think about Snobbery? I was brought up in 50's England, and where the right voice could gain a much better job than the wrong voice, and a particular school tie really could get gain entry to the very best careers. I lived in a country that was so completely embraced by snobbery in so many thousands of ways that this subject could fill a sociologist's studies for a lifetime....I expect..

And now? Where I live? Kent, England in 2021 is still embraced by snobbery, it just shows its face in different ways today. Our children can tell you more about 'street cred' than I can, but I do assure you that if you haven't got the right clothes and shoes, the right reactions and voices, the right certificates and qualifications, the right gear, etc etc....... you will be the victim of modern snobbery.

And on RF? Have you ever noticed any posts that smacked of modern snobbery?

Over to you......................

Click to expand...

As can be seen from a number of the post above, at least in the last 50 years or more, the false bravado of snobbery is generally looked down upon, rather than up to.
That said @Secret Chief ’s point of separating snobbery from judgment is a good call. Using the right clothing and the right accent as a way to tell a good applicant apart from a bad one (whether it be for a job, or on a date, or for political office), snobbery was a quick way of showing off that you have the right credentials.

Unfortunately with many societies throughout the world, this method of judgment was carried too far, to the point that many qualified individuals who’ve been (and are to this day) excluded because they lack the select snobbish projections. One can consider racism as a form of snobbery.
See what I mean?

While historically such prejudice has caused a lot of harm, it unfortunately is also purely a subjective call. Here in the forums and in life, I often see this over-call of “snobbery” by people who hold verifiably false ideas near and dear to their hearts (The world is flat, there is no global warming, black people are simply more violent, evolution is a lie, Obama was a Muslim terrorist mole, etc… etc…) claiming that others who disagree with them by posting (commenting IRL) with the truth and facts to back them, are “elitist” and “snobs” or “know-it-all‘s”. The willfully ignorant claim this as a way to deny the facts that have been laid out in front of them, making the call of “snobbery” or “snob” as an ad hominem attack.

So, where do we draw the line?

oldbadger said:

Please, moderators, could you put this thread in to the correct forum if it is out of place? Thank you.

What do you think about Snobbery? I was brought up in 50's England, and where the right voice could gain a much better job than the wrong voice, and a particular school tie really could get gain entry to the very best careers. I lived in a country that was so completely embraced by snobbery in so many thousands of ways that this subject could fill a sociologist's studies for a lifetime....I expect..

And now? Where I live? Kent, England in 2021 is still embraced by snobbery, it just shows its face in different ways today. Our children can tell you more about 'street cred' than I can, but I do assure you that if you haven't got the right clothes and shoes, the right reactions and voices, the right certificates and qualifications, the right gear, etc etc....... you will be the victim of modern snobbery.

And on RF? Have you ever noticed any posts that smacked of modern snobbery?

Over to you......................

Click to expand...

Dear oldbadger,

Like with human ambition, snobbery is a need to prove one’s worth to others.

Snobbery is also the fear that someone else’s sense of worthlessness is somehow contagious.

He who truly knows his own worth, has no need to prove it to anyone else.


Humbly
Hermit

Daemon Sophic said:

As can be seen from a number of the post above, at least in the last 50 years or more, the false bravado of snobbery is generally looked down upon, rather than up to.

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I hope so.

That said @Secret Chief ’s point of separating snobbery from judgment is a good call. Using the right clothing and the right accent as a way to tell a good applicant apart from a bad one (whether it be for a job, or on a date, or for political office), snobbery was a quick way of showing off that you have the right credentials.

Click to expand...

Oh dear. That did indeed exist in the past, but I do hope it will be dying out in the future.
What are the right credentials if one needs to use a particular accent or dress in a certain way? Shallow or what?

Unfortunately with many societies throughout the world, this method of judgment was carried too far, to the point that many qualified individuals who’ve been (and are to this day) excluded because they lack the select snobbish projections. One can consider racism as a form of snobbery.

“He’s not a Cambridge man, so he’s not good enough for my daughter.”

“He’s not good enough for my daughter, he’s black.”
​

See what I mean?

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Bingo!
And Inequality does at last raise it's ugly head.
I was waiting for the 'Snobbery of Bigotry' to be raised up, because imo we haven't moved forward an inch towards reducing or eliminating Prejudice and Bigotry.

Let's see where that goes, and 'thank you'.

While historically such prejudice has caused a lot of harm, it unfortunately is also purely a subjective call. Here in the forums and in life, I often see this over-call of “snobbery” by people who hold verifiably false ideas near and dear to their hearts (The world is flat, there is no global warming, black people are simply more violent, evolution is a lie, Obama was a Muslim terrorist mole, etc… etc…) claiming that others who disagree with them by posting (commenting IRL) with the truth and facts to back them, are “elitist” and “snobs” or “know-it-all‘s”. The willfully ignorant claim this as a way to deny the facts that have been laid out in front of them, making the call of “snobbery” or “snob” as an ad hominem attack.

Click to expand...

What or who (here) is 'Wilfully Ignorant'?
How can a person 'Will Ignorance' DS? And why would ignorant people particularly accuse others of snobbery? I'm not sure about that at all.

Apart from a person who is in 'denial' over some issue or other, I can't perceive what 'wilfull ignorance' might be like.

So, where do we draw the line?

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Ah!
Well, you've brought Racism in to the conversation as a kind of snobbery (which it most certainly is) and so that leaves me with the freedom to blow the whistle on Sexism, Gender, Sexuality, IQ, Nationality, Marital, financial, employment, religious, ....... prejudices, which I'm charging now with being kinds of Snobbery.

Thank you for your post...... it might open things up a bit.

Hermit Philosopher said:

Dear oldbadger,

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Hi......

Like with human ambition, snobbery is a need to prove one’s worth to others.

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No, HP, ambition has no kind of connection to snobbery.
But your point about snobbery being a need to prove worth is most useful.
Yes! Snobbery can be a need to prove a worth that does not exist!
True worth is like you and me, HP...... very 'umble.

Snobbery is also the fear that someone else’s sense of worthlessness is somehow contagious.

Click to expand...

So snobbery is a fear? A fear of other people's weaknesses?
So snobbery is a lack of strength, for the strong can often stoop to lift weakness up, to give it strength where possible.

He who truly knows his own worth, has no need to prove it to anyone else.
Humbly
Hermit

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Just so, and the impostor will prance and promenade his false messages....... Yes, I would expect the impostor to play the snob. Just so.

Thank you for your post, HP.

oldbadger said:

Please, moderators, could you put this thread in to the correct forum if it is out of place? Thank you.

What do you think about Snobbery? I was brought up in 50's England, and where the right voice could gain a much better job than the wrong voice, and a particular school tie really could get gain entry to the very best careers. I lived in a country that was so completely embraced by snobbery in so many thousands of ways that this subject could fill a sociologist's studies for a lifetime....I expect..

And now? Where I live? Kent, England in 2021 is still embraced by snobbery, it just shows its face in different ways today. Our children can tell you more about 'street cred' than I can, but I do assure you that if you haven't got the right clothes and shoes, the right reactions and voices, the right certificates and qualifications, the right gear, etc etc....... you will be the victim of modern snobbery.

And on RF? Have you ever noticed any posts that smacked of modern snobbery?

Over to you......................

Click to expand...

There you go again....bringing your threads in thru the front door.
Servant entrance in the back, please!

Perhaps you need some examples to follow....

oldbadger said:

Please, moderators, could you put this thread in to the correct forum if it is out of place? Thank you.

What do you think about Snobbery? I was brought up in 50's England, and where the right voice could gain a much better job than the wrong voice, and a particular school tie really could get gain entry to the very best careers. I lived in a country that was so completely embraced by snobbery in so many thousands of ways that this subject could fill a sociologist's studies for a lifetime....I expect..

And now? Where I live? Kent, England in 2021 is still embraced by snobbery, it just shows its face in different ways today. Our children can tell you more about 'street cred' than I can, but I do assure you that if you haven't got the right clothes and shoes, the right reactions and voices, the right certificates and qualifications, the right gear, etc etc....... you will be the victim of modern snobbery.

And on RF? Have you ever noticed any posts that smacked of modern snobbery?

Over to you......................

Click to expand...

I think snobbery is a form of bigotry. A lot of it is classist, although it doesn't necessarily have to be that. People who are insecure feel the need to cut down others in order to feel better about themselves.

I think snobbery got worse during the 80s. Prior to that, I remember there being more sympathy for the lower classes and working stiffs, but after 1980, I started to notice more and more scorn and ridicule for the lower classes.

oldbadger said:

And on RF? Have you ever noticed any posts that smacked of modern snobbery?

Click to expand...

Yes. I saw a post that showed the picture of a man. The poster thought it ''normal'' that the man in the picture had ridiculous looks. I was disgusted by the poster's attitude.

oldbadger, post: 7308062, member: 39349"]….

What or who (here) is 'Wilfully Ignorant'?
How can a person 'Will Ignorance' DS? And why would ignorant people particularly accuse others of snobbery? I'm not sure about that at all.

Apart from a person who is in 'denial' over some issue or other, I can't perceive what 'wilfull ignorance' might be like.
Calling it ‘Denial’ belittles the word. This goes beyond denial. I gave several examples in parentheses. Here in the forum, look to evolution vs creationism threads. Most of those who oppose the very existence of evolution often cite obvious strawman examples. Clearly nobody is really that daft. They are being overcharged with anger, and have willfully foregone thinking.
But more to the point, they are then presented with the facts, and asked if they have ever studied what evolution teaches. To which they say “No”, or change the subject. But they never go and study from a science book.
Or someone who supports the current US economic structure with all of the inequalities of pay-scale. When they say that if large companies CEOs must get those 100+million dollar salaries, or the company would go belly up. “It’s the only way to get the best workers.” Yet we all know that is a blatant lie, with thousands of examples of better skilled CEOs working in thousands of other companies for much, much, much lower pay.
Or to provide balance. On a rare occasion here you may find some atheist arguing points on scripture, where it seems clear that he is not citing scripture at all, and even when confronted with the actual text just bluffs and ad hominem their way around or out of the thread.

Ah!
Well, you've brought Racism in to the conversation as a kind of snobbery (which it most certainly is) and so that leaves me with the freedom to blow the whistle on Sexism, Gender, Sexuality, IQ, Nationality, Marital, financial, employment, religious, ....... prejudices, which I'm charging now with being kinds of Snobbery.
I agree. Although the IQ one is marginal, since yes, some twits will cite their actual official IQ score to imply that they know more about a subject, and are better somehow. But “smarts” and knowledge are two different things. And usually someone’s functional knowledge on a subject shows up the snobbish braggarts in short order.
But I think that most of the time, anyone with an IQ over 100 realizes “Once burned, twice shy.” Then only speaks up when they have real knowledge on a subject……..I should hope.

Thank you for your post...... it might open things up a bit. ]. You’re welcome. Thank you for the thread. And I hope so too.