Would a good god allow the Coronavirus?

Rawshak said:

Alex. "In order to assert that there is a God who is supervising this, then it must follow that there is morally sufficient reason for it to occur" The Bishop could not give a convincing answer IMHO.

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Not a Good God, but a bad 'god' would such as the ' god' of this world of badness aka Satan 2 Corinthians 4:4.
When Satan challenged Job (Job 2:4-5) by way of extension Satan was also challenging all of us.
Touch our 'flesh'.... ( loose physical health ) and we would Not serve God under adverse conditions.
Jesus was Not teaching at Luke 21:11 that pestilences were from his God but that such things would be happening before Jesus will come to our rescue - Revelation 22:2 - and bring healing to earth's nations.

SomeRandom said:

Interestingly many religious folks I know (from multiple faiths) have assured me that this is suppose to be a sort of judgment. A cleansing if you will of the “evil.” I always find that interesting. Like the concept of a good god isn’t universal, but praising God for things like a pandemic happening seemingly is

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Science needs to discover what caused this outbreak so we can prevent it from happening again. This is a matter for science to solve and has nothing to do with God.

It Aint Necessarily So said:

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This has got to be my all time favorite episode of The Atheist Experience. Tracie ripped that guy to shreds without even a single insult, slur or maligning word. And as you stated, the theist was forced to conclude that a little girl must have deserved being raped, rather than implicate his God in sitting idly by. It might seem like some sort of trumped up parody or exaggeration if this same sort of end-point to a theist's rationale wasn't reached so very, very often. I feel this kind of thinking should have people recoiling from it in unabashed disgust, to be honest. It is a sad testimony to the state of humanity that there might be plenty enough out there who would nod their heads in agreement with the theist in that call, or who might themselves resort to such terrifying acceptance of evils in order to defend nothing more than some silly, fantastical notions they hold.

Conscious thoughts said:

Nor am i here to judge other people.

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Interesting this. The sole reason I am here is to judge the motives, behaviors, ideas and expressions of other people.

A Vestigial Mote said:

Interesting this. The sole reason I am here is to judge the motives, behaviors, ideas and expressions of other people.

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I have no reason to judge others since i have to many flaws my self

Conscious thoughts said:

I have no reason to judge others since i have to many flaws my self

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If we all thought that way, then how would anyone's behavior ever be judged? I think it a pretty good thing, for example, for parents to make judgments on their children's behavior and attempt to steer them toward what they believe to be best accordingly, don't you?

In short - your "I don't judge people" schtick isn't, in any way, "right." It may be, at the most, "right" for you, and that is where you can keep it. Not that you were pushing it - your statements are pretty flat as they are - but it is a fine line, I feel, when people are talking about these kinds of things. Sure, you can rely on the flatness of your statements to allow you to claim you weren't making prescriptions for others... but it is very, very hard not to see those kinds of prescriptions in the subtext. Especially when you're replying to someone who may have just made a judgment about someone's behavior, or some thing.

A Vestigial Mote said:

If we all thought that way, then how would anyone's behavior ever be judged? I think it a pretty good thing, for example, for parents to make judgments on their children's behavior and attempt to steer them toward what they believe to be best accordingly, don't you?

In short - your "I don't judge people" schtick isn't, in any way, "right." It may be, at the most, "right" for you, and that is where you can keep it. Not that you were pushing it - your statements are pretty flat as they are - but it is a fine line, I feel, when people are talking about these kinds of things. Sure, you can rely on the flatness of your statements to allow you to claim you weren't making prescriptions for others... but it is very, very hard not to see those kinds of prescriptions in the subtext. Especially when you're replying to someone who may have just made a judgment about someone's behavior, or some thing.

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Maybe i should have answered "i do not intentionally try to judge others"
I understand my own understanding of "judging someone" is different than many in RF.

Sometimes i ask questions to understand better what others believe or thinking, but there is no intention of judging because "i think i know better than them"

And the plants in a garden would ask: "If there is a God, why would he allow all of these weeds to grow in our space and steal our supply of nutrients?"

And, after the gardener sprays some chemicals, the weeds that begin to die would ask: "If there is a God, why has this space been contaminated so that we can no longer grow?"

It's only natural for conscious beings to consider themselves to be at the center of God's plan. But in the grand scheme of things, we are but an infinitesimal cog. Life isn't fair because we are not the center of the universe. This doesn't mean that there's no rhyme or reason to our suffering, it only means that our suffering isn't the bigger picture.

oldbadger said:

Nope.
I based that post upon any religion that thinks God speaks to it thru' messengers, as if humans are special to God.

Deists see God all around, in very very tiny portions of the massive whole. But God is too vast for the possibility of any individual interest in one galaxy (universe?) or another.

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That is how I would see God. I consider as all is mad by God, then it does indeed all reflect the craftsman. Thus I must be a Diest to, it way too big to know what is God.

We only differ because I see that God wanted us to know how to become One in that creation, thus the purpose of the Messenger. Interestingly Baha'u'llah offered there are many more creatures of many more worlds that have that same capacity.

So have a smile OB, we are currently working at the unity of all humanity, but the star wars day may come when we are looking to become One with all creatures throughout many Universes.

We might need some Jedi to do that? Well Jedi at heart anyways!

May the force of creation be with you!

Regards Tony

Conscious thoughts said:

Maybe i should have answered "i do not intentionally try to judge others"
I understand my own understanding of "judging someone" is different than many in RF.

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I doubt it differs all that much. I just think there is a lot of stock put into the "rightness" of "not judging", such that putting forth judgment itself then becomes what one is being judged for! And then people say things like... "well, I don't judge." Sort of like "I try not to wear Walmart brand." when someone (who is perhaps a little haughty) sees someone else doing so.

Conscious thoughts said:

Sometimes i ask questions to understand better what others believe or thinking, but there is no intention of judging because "i think i know better than them"

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You don't have to "know better than them" to recognize when someone's behavior is detrimental or harmful in some way. Even people who perpetrate bad things themselves call others out for doing THE EXACT SAME THINGS, all the time. Those people obviously "don't know better" - when they are, themselves, perpetrating the exact same behaviors. They are called hypocrites, of course, and there are plenty of those. So very, very obviously one does not have to "know better" in order to judge another. Not hardly.

It came from the devil, but can a real scientist just let it go? Suffering for a short time is no reason to hold a grudge against God and not move on to bliss hereafter.

A Vestigial Mote said:

I doubt it differs all that much. I just think there is a lot of stock put into the "rightness" of "not judging", such that putting forth judgment itself then becomes what one is being judged for! And then people say things like... "well, I don't judge." Sort of like "I try not to wear Walmart brand." when someone (who is perhaps a little haughty) sees someone else doing so.

You don't have to "know better than them" to recognize when someone's behavior is detrimental or harmful in some way. Even people who perpetrate bad things themselves call others out for doing THE EXACT SAME THINGS, all the time. Those people obviously "don't know better" - when they are, themselves, perpetrating the exact same behaviors. They are called hypocrites, of course, and there are plenty of those. So very, very obviously one does not have to "know better" in order to judge another. Not hardly.

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All i can do is to try to become better in everything i do, say or think

Rawshak said:

I think you can believe in a Good God and justify pain and suffering but if you accept there is pain and suffering and try to get to a good god there is no path.

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Every human is brought into this life with pain and suffering as part of that process.

It is soon forgotten when the new life is embraced.

Every part of creation has been given to us to become our true selves, to learn what it is to be a Spiritual being, which is eternal.

Regards Tony

SomeRandom said:

In this case, wiping out all the “evil” in the world. Note this is not my position, just one that’s been expressed to me through multiple people

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How do we define what is evil? Do we wipe out all crocodiles and snakes?

Who will give us the balance?

Regards Tony

The Sum of Awe said:

And the plants in a garden would ask: "If there is a God, why would he allow all of these weeds to grow in our space and steal our supply of nutrients?"

And, after the gardener sprays some chemicals, the weeds that begin to die would ask: "If there is a God, why has this space been contaminated so that we can no longer grow?"

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And by your estimation, does this mean that the weeds themselves should not esteem their lives and livelihoods as worthy of being lived, in and of themselves? Does this, in your estimation, mean that the weeds should not fight for their lives (perhaps through adaptation, or whatever means may be available to them)?

Ultimately, it boils down to the very obvious answer to a simple question - who should give a crap what plans the farmer has? The obvious answer - the farmer, and no one else necessarily need pay him mind. Now extend your exact same analogy, with this fresh information in mind, to "God" and what do you see? That God is the only one who is necessarily concerned with His own plans... none of we others need pay him any mind. As a weed... I will keep trying to grow, thank you very, very much for your concern. Please pass on to the "farmer," if you happen to see him, that I don't give one flying rat's patoot about His plans. There... I even asked fairly nicely.

The Sum of Awe said:

It's only natural for conscious beings to consider themselves to be at the center of God's plan. But in the grand scheme of things, we are but an infinitesimal cog. Life isn't fair because we are not the center of the universe. This doesn't mean that there's no rhyme or reason to our suffering, it only means that our suffering isn't the bigger picture.

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But again... this can't mean that we don't try to ameliorate our circumstances by avoiding the suffering. Which is, quite frankly, what we put a great deal of our time into trying to do. Even yourself, I would easily and quickly hazard a guess. So that's that... "plans" be damned.

Conscious thoughts said:

All i can do is to try to become better in everything i do, say or think

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And this according to your own standards of "better," no doubt.

A Vestigial Mote said:

And this according to your own standards of "better," no doubt.

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According to sufi teaching and to Allah

Rawshak said:

Do you think sin creates viruses?

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That is a no, but our neglect of hygiene and then a follow up of a unity of prompt action, allows them to thrive.

It appears that 6 workers excavating bat poo for monetry gain brought this originally from a cave. Therin may be the first cause and if so many other mistakes made after this event, maybe even human manipulation.

Regards Tony

Conscious thoughts said:

According to sufi teaching and to Allah

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It is good to point out according to our current understanding of our writings and our faith.

You may note, we can change our mind when we discover new Gems of wisdom given by Allah.

Regards Tony

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:

It is good to point out according to our current understanding of our writings and our faith.

You may note, we can change our mind when we discover new Gems of wisdom given by Allah.

Regards Tony

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Yes the understanding become better when we realize deeper meaning of the teaching My understanding of sufism is in constant change due to the daily practice, reading and so on