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Why would gods use cultural diffusion?

Brian2

Veteran Member
Well, we can say with a certain confidence that for the vast majority of humans, Jesus suffered for nothing. Because only a minority had the luxury to be born in a Gospel area, and get old enough to accept that gift.
And as I said, that gift requires an additional requirement that it was not necessary for all those people not knowing. Therefore, it is detrimental towards salvation. It is a gift, but only if we interpret the word "Gift" as a German word.

Ciao

- viole

That might be where the choice of God comes in. Those who accept Jesus are what the NT calls the firstfruits of the Spirit. That is a gift of God and it obviously it does not reach everyone.
We don't know how many of the rest will be saved and with those who accept the Gospel it needs to be a sincere acceptance that leads to change and works of love in a life.
Any one else who is saved should also be grateful (just as a Christian should) because we are all condemned by God as sinners because we all sin and do not deserve eternal life.
We know that it is not just Christians who are righteous and many are more righteous in their deeds that many Christians and God knows that and that people just did not have a chance to hear let alone accept the gospel. This is the same with people who lived before Jesus also.
Just as people can fulfil the requirements of the law of Moses even if they did not have the law (Romans 2:14) so people would be able to do that with the gospel requirements, at least as much as what many Christians have, so imo and hope, there will be many who are saved through that. Many also only know of what religion they have been taught and so are faithful to that and even if it is wrong they have shown they can be faithful to God.
I don't know about atheists, because the scriptures say that without faith it is impossible to please God. (Heb 11:6) Maybe that is just for this life.
God understands the problems with having faith however when there is so much around us which is against faith in God and there is nothing in the Bible as far as I know, which relegates atheists to condemnation because of lack of belief. So with any luck you have a fighting chance. Let's hope so. Atheists can be morally better than many religious people imo,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,but of course it is not up to me.
 

PearlSeeker

Well-Known Member
Well, we can say with a certain confidence that for the vast majority of humans, Jesus suffered for nothing. Because only a minority had the luxury to be born in a Gospel area, and get old enough to accept that gift.

And as I said, that gift requires an additional requirement that it was not necessary for all those people not knowing. Therefore, it is detrimental towards salvation. It is a gift, but only if we interpret the word "Gift" as a German word.
Catechism of the Catholic Church - IntraText
 

alypius

Active Member
Seems possible the knowledge could sit there in waiting, not unlike an instinct. We know fear and love before we have words for them.

So would the newborn first have to wait to learn a language before making sense of the infused knowledge?
 

Meow Mix

Chatte Féministe
So would the newborn first have to wait to learn a language before making sense of the infused knowledge?

I suppose. An omnipotent being shouldn't have any worries about how to get the knowledge to people; any conceivable problem would have some omnipotent way around it.
 

alypius

Active Member
I suppose. An omnipotent being shouldn't have any worries about how to get the knowledge to people; any conceivable problem would have some omnipotent way around it.

If a baby had to learn a language before making sense of infused knowledge, then wouldn't the baby be subject to cultural diffusion?
 

Meow Mix

Chatte Féministe
If a baby had to learn a language before making sense of infused knowledge, then wouldn't the baby be subject to cultural diffusion?

While it is true that sometimes there aren't direct correspondences between words in some different languages, I doubt this would be a significant barrier. An omnipotent being could still get their point across.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
People learn English all over the world, because, it's of a benefit for jobs and attain higher position and wealth in this world. I don't see why people can't learn Arabic for the sake of Quran and ahadith if they are searching for the next world and desire it.

The trial of this world is whether we desire God, His chosen ones, and the next world on one hand or choose the perishing world over the next.

Of course, some teachings have to be conveyed, but if rational proofs of Islam make sense and person wants to further investigate - I don't see what prevents them from learning Arabic just as many people learn English.

In my view, Islam is impossible to understand without knowing Arabic.
 

danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
There are no rational proofs of Islam hence learning Arabic is not a high priority for many of us.

In my opinion.
 

Jacob Samuelson

Active Member
Many “revealed religions” depend on prophets and holy texts to get their messages out to people: in order to figure out what God wants, you either have to read this holy text or have a class of priests that read the text tell you what the text says.

But this is a form of cultural diffusion: whether or not the text is available to you before the modern world (with printing presses and internet) depends on whether you’re born in the region where the book is in print, whether your culture supports the priest class that can tell you what the text says (such as if you’re illiterate), things like this. Even today, we see religions based on particular texts to be somewhat geographically locked as tends to happen with things (like fashion) that are spread through cultural diffusion.

Why would gods choose such an obviously inefficient way to spread their message, especially if (in some worldviews) that message has infinite consequences?

For instance, for a being with godlike power, it would be trivially easy to just implant whatever knowledge is supposed to be gleaned by the holy text directly into every newborn: then it won’t become region locked, people wouldn’t fight over whose holy text is holiest, people wouldn’t be born in regions that don’t have easy cultural access to the holy text or priest class that reads it, etc. Why not this instead?
I'll answer from my "churchy" perspective because I think that's what you are looking for. It is really only a story not so much an answer.
In my religious upbringing, we were told there were two fundamental plans for creation. One founded by Lucifer and One founded by Elohim (The Father God). The objectives were the same: Have every spiritual formation receive a physical body and Once life was experienced, have as many of those spiritualized bodies return in a purified immortal form (gods).

Elohim's plan was as we see it today. We would start from scratch and just get scratchier as we live this life, hopefully listening to our natural compasses and making the choice to realize that we are godly spirits trapped in a mortal body and are meant for so much more.

Lucifer, known for his ingenuity and spiritual adeptness proposed something very similar to what you suggested at the end of your OP. He wanted every spiritualized body to have built within their cores knowledge and perfection. He knew the dangers of giving people their own free will and calculated the potential losses due to the inefficiencies that Elohim proposed.
Their dialogue would have went something like this:

'Why allow people to suffer, when we are fully able to fulfill your objective without any losses or suffering?" - Lucifer yelled

Elohim calmly responded, "Because in order to do that, you must take away one's ability to choose. We want to create people. Not machines"

"You want to create chaos. People are so flawed and weak. They will kill you the moment they give you a chance, and they will spit on your grave. You will only make them worse by giving them choice. Why even create them at all."

"Because I choose to. Just as you have the choice to reject my plan."

"Well I also choose to fulfill my plan whether you like it or not, We will see who will still choose your pathetic plan in the end."

"Ok child, but not under my roof. You are going to have to find another place to oppose me."

"Fine. Be it that way. I never liked this place anyways, I already have spirits who agree with me and I know a perfect place to set up. I helped build it so I don't think you would oppose."

Lucifer and his many followers took Earth as their home, receiving no flesh, yet maintaining a vast intelligence and knowledge of creational and spiritual properties in order to manipulate and recruit Elohim's followers to join their plan and reject Elohim's. Lucifer received a new name as Satan, purging himself from his own freedom of choice.

According to this story, any human of flesh and bones, had been exposed to Lucifer's plan at some time in their premortal existence (as spirits) yet chose to participate in Elohim's plan. They just thought it would be better to suffer and live in confusion than to be stripped of choice and personality.

Now again although this story is "more formally" written in my churches doctrine it is still only a story. I think its entertaining so I choose this story over others as far as what I consider what really happened. (Kind of like The Life of PI, one of my favorite movies) and I hope it coincides with your question about the limitations and inefficiencies of divine power in advertising their gospel.
 
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