Question about God and hell

Bird123 said:

In time, God's system will teach us all to Love Unconditionally. After all, isn't that what everyone wants returning. Everyone will figure this out eventually.

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What if there are people do not want unconditional love and are not looking for it and their lives are centred on themselves only even at the expense of others. That seems to be the case even if very evil people might a pet or have a wife they love etc.

Brian2 said:

What if there are people do not want unconditional love and are not looking for it and their lives are centred on themselves only even at the expense of others. That seems to be the case even if very evil people might a pet or have a wife they love etc.

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That is all part of Discovering what the best answers really are.

There are people who scratch and claw to get get get. They have not learned that people who give receive much more than those who claw.

A very self centered person needs to be very careful. They might just end up alone.

I knew a very self centered man. People would come into his life, but never seemed to stay long. Even his own dog bit him. I did my best to help and point him in the right direction, however some souls must Live the Lesson. He wasn't listening.

Still life is a Great Learning process. Everyone moves forward Living those Lessons. Be who you must! It's a part of the plan! This sets everyone up for the optimum learning through life.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

URAVIP2ME said:

Yes, burn and can't recover, but the dead in Hebrew sheol (English grave) can be recovered via a Resurrection.
Whereas, ' second death ' is the Eternal Fire ( <-the symbolic fire of destruction ) - Revelation 21:8
Those in God's dynamic memory (His heavenly system) will have a resurrection - Acts of the Apostles 24:15
A resurrection out of 'death's deep sleep' as Jesus and the OT teach- John 11:11-14; Psalms 115:17; Isaiah 38:18

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Amen. See you at the dinner party.

Brian2 said:

Hi, welcome to the forum.

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Hi, thanks.
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In the Greek culture of Jesus day hades was the place of the spirits of the dead and hades was used from Greek because it carried a similar meaning as sheol in Hebrew.

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When the first man, Adam, sinned, God told him that his punishment would simply be to pass out of existence: “Dust you are and to dust you will return.” (Genesis 3:19)
What do you say?

LactoseIntolerant said:

Amen. See you at the dinner party.

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Yes, won't see you before the dinner party - Isaiah 26:20.
Are you going to bring the wine for the 'after Armageddon' dinner party ________

URAVIP2ME said:

Yes, won't see you before the dinner party - Isaiah 26:20.
Are you going to bring the wine for the 'after Armageddon' dinner party ________

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No BYOBs. Have to drink the Host's wine.

LactoseIntolerant said:

No BYOBs. Have to drink the Host's wine.

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Sounds like the ' Wedding at Cana ' ......................

URAVIP2ME said:

Sounds like the ' Wedding at Cana ' ......................

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That and the post-party of the "Billion Prodigal Sons" march.

LactoseIntolerant said:

That and the post-party of the "Billion Prodigal Sons" march.

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I liked the one comment that someone made that he hoped there would be annoying people there!
Annoying people helps one to see how well a person is doing in cultivating the fruitage of God's spirit - Gal. 5:22-23
-> love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith, mildness, and self-control.
It's no wonder mankind will be given a thousand years to reach healthy human perfection.

Brian2 said:

Everyone is resurrected........................................

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Everyone considered to be in ' biblical hell ' (the grave for the sleeping dead - Psalms 115:17; Isaiah 38:18) is resurrected.
To me, resurrection is Not true for the ones committing the unforgivable sin of Matthew 12:32.
Also, I see No resurrection for the ones executed by the 'sword-like words from Jesus' mouth' -> Isaiah 11:3-4; Rev. 19:14-15

Bird123 said:

Very Good!! This proves Hell does not exist unless God is a Monster.
God returns our actions to teach us what our actions really mean. This can seem like Hell for those who choose very bad choices.On the other hand, this is not punishment, but education at it's best.
In time, God's system will teach us all to Love Unconditionally. After all, isn't that what everyone wants returning. Everyone will figure this out eventually.
Hell is not real. It exists only in the minds of mankind. The question remains: What will return, in time, for those who use the threat of Hell to gain followers? They too are going to be glad Hell doesn't really exist!!...........!

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I find biblical hell is real because the Bible's hell is simply mankind's temporary stone-cold grave.
Can anyone think of anyone righteous who on the day he died went to hell ___________
According to Acts of the Apostles 2:27 the day righteous Jesus died he went to hell ( biblical grave )
If biblical hell was a permanent place Jesus would still be in hell.
Biblical hell exists as the grave for the ' sleeping dead ' as both Jesus and the OT teach ' sleep ' in death.
( - John 11:11-14; Psalms 6:5; Psalms 13:3; Psalms 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5 )
Resurrection Day (Jesus coming Millennium-Long Day of governing over Earth for a thousand years) can be referred to as Educational Day; 'education as its best' because even people who never heard of Jesus can be resurrected back to life (John 3:13) and have the opportunity for everlasting life as originally offered to Adam before his downfall.

URAVIP2ME said:

I find biblical hell is real because the Bible's hell is simply mankind's temporary stone-cold grave.
Can anyone think of anyone righteous who on the day he died went to hell ___________
According to Acts of the Apostles 2:27 the day righteous Jesus died he went to hell ( biblical grave )
If biblical hell was a permanent place Jesus would still be in hell.
Biblical hell exists as the grave for the ' sleeping dead ' as both Jesus and the OT teach ' sleep ' in death.
( - John 11:11-14; Psalms 6:5; Psalms 13:3; Psalms 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5 )
Resurrection Day (Jesus coming Millennium-Long Day of governing over Earth for a thousand years) can be referred to as Educational Day; 'education as its best' because even people who never heard of Jesus can be resurrected back to life (John 3:13) and have the opportunity for everlasting life as originally offered to Adam before his downfall.

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I can't think of anyone going to Hell righteous or not.

A Leopard doesn't change it's spots. If all the physics of the world add up perfectly so does the people factor. The people factor is much more complicated since are are so many more variables.

People can value and claim beliefs are true, however Real Truth must add up. Further Truth must always be questioned to be sure it is truth instead of a bunch of blind beliefs.

Does it add up? If Hell is a cold grave, where did all that fire and brimstone come from? Are these actions of Great Intelligence? So many of those beliefs do not add up. If there are better ways, why does God do it this way? Because it is in a holy book written by mankind does not mean it comes from God. To assume so is to wander from the real truth.

If believing is so important, why doesn't God pop in to end the question? If God does not pop in, why not? If God wanted to give us the knowledge of holy books, why not implant the knowledge at birth? Having mankind print and pass along books does not show Great Intelligence. Why does God not have Great Intelligence?

To Question is the start on the journey to Discovery and the Real Truth. Do those who do not question really seek truth or has it become more about beliefs, accepting, and following?

Why does God want followers instead of children able to stand on their own to feet? Why would a Being of Great Intelligence create dependent, following, weak children unable to think on their own?

It doesn't add up and yet the Math of Real Truth Must Add Up!!! The Genius, Truth, and Math stare us all in the face!!

A hungry student seeking wisdom, knowledge and truth will have an infinite number of questions. Is that really you??? That is me!!

Who is more likely to Discover the Real Truth? Those that follow and never question or those who question everything?

Still, there is Genius in God allowing free choices thus each will Discover for themselves when the results return. So it really comes down to what one wants. I will always be a Hungry Student. I will always be a Seeker of knowledge, wisdom, and truth. I will be questioning all the way and beyond, but that is me.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

Bird123 said:

I can't think of anyone going to Hell righteous or not.
A Leopard doesn't change it's spots. If all the physics of the world add up perfectly so does the people factor. The people factor is much more complicated since are are so many more variables.
People can value and claim beliefs are true, however Real Truth must add up. Further Truth must always be questioned to be sure it is truth instead of a bunch of blind beliefs.
Does it add up? If Hell is a cold grave, where did all that fire and brimstone come from? Are these actions of Great Intelligence? So many of those beliefs do not add up. If there are better ways, why does God do it this way? Because it is in a holy book written by mankind does not mean it comes from God. To assume so is to wander from the real truth.
If believing is so important, why doesn't God pop in to end the question? If God does not pop in, why not? If God wanted to give us the knowledge of holy books, why not implant the knowledge at birth? Having mankind print and pass along books does not show Great Intelligence. Why does God not have Great Intelligence?
To Question is the start on the journey to Discovery and the Real Truth. Do those who do not question really seek truth or has it become more about beliefs, accepting, and following?
Why does God want followers instead of children able to stand on their own to feet? Why would a Being of Great Intelligence create dependent, following, weak children unable to think on their own?
It doesn't add up and yet the Math of Real Truth Must Add Up!!! The Genius, Truth, and Math stare us all in the face!!
A hungry student seeking wisdom, knowledge and truth will have an infinite number of questions. Is that really you??? That is me!!
Who is more likely to Discover the Real Truth? Those that follow and never question or those who question everything?
Still, there is Genius in God allowing free choices thus each will Discover for themselves when the results return. So it really comes down to what one wants. I will always be a Hungry Student. I will always be a Seeker of knowledge, wisdom, and truth. I will be questioning all the way and beyond, but that is me.
That's what I see. It's very clear!!

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Thank you Bird for your reply
Yes, agree the 'people factor' is complicated......
To me ' Real Truth' / 'Further Truth ' should be questioned/inquired to see if it really is ' Religious Truth '.
When Pilate asked 'what is truth', he probably was thinking of Truth in General.
Whereas, Jesus professed he was teaching is ' Religious Truth ' from the old Hebrew Scriptures (John 17:17)
So, Jesus based his beliefs, Not on credulity (blind faith) but having faith/confidence in the Scriptures.
When King James, etc. translated the word Gehenna into English as 'hell fire' that put flames in biblical hell/grave.
Gehenna was a garbage pit outside of Jerusalem where things were: destroyed.
So, Gehenna is a fitting word for: destruction
That is why Scripture teaches the wicked to be 'destroyed forever' -Psalms 92:7; Psalms 104:35; Psalms 37:38
I like the way you say why doesn't God ' pop in '......
Through the teachings of Jesus that is how God ' pops in '.
As to 'why', for one thing: before God could ' pop in ' Earth would first have to be populated - Genesis 1:28
In other words, the passing of time would be needed for us to be born and think who we would like as Sovereign over us.
Then, the passing of time would be needed to complete the assignment Jesus gives at Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8.
The good news about God's kingdom (Daniel 2:44) would have to 'pop in' be spread world wide; on an international scale.
Never before in history has this happened as it is being done today coupled with global conditions - Luke 21:11.
So, yes, a hungry or inquiring mind does want to know. Just like the people of Acts of the Apostles 17:11.
Pleased Bird that you know (Bible Truth) that there is No one going to some 'religious-myth hell fire of burning'.
Hope you'll ' pop in ' out of this cold world with more comments.

URAVIP2ME said:

I liked the one comment that someone made that he hoped there would be annoying people there!
Annoying people helps one to see how well a person is doing in cultivating the fruitage of God's spirit - Gal. 5:22-23
-> love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith, mildness, and self-control.
It's no wonder mankind will be given a thousand years to reach healthy human perfection.

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I think most of the annoying people will be left to rot in their own disobedience and forgotten as per Matthew 26:24. Scriptures are never boring just the taint of doctrines (knowledge of man) is stale and burdensome.
Perfection as shown by Christ is the only Ideal and I look forward to meeting many of Him. I hope a thousand years is enough to find Grace in the Eyes of God for all who seek him.

Frank Goad said:

Why did God make humans.If he knew from the start some would go to hell?I ask this because if God is all knowing.He knew some people were going to hell and some weren't.From the very beginning.

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This kind of God doesn't make sense.

LactoseIntolerant said:

I think most of the annoying people will be left to rot in their own disobedience and forgotten as per Matthew 26:24. Scriptures are never boring just the taint of doctrines (knowledge of man) is stale and burdensome.
Perfection as shown by Christ is the only Ideal and I look forward to meeting many of Him. I hope a thousand years is enough to find Grace in the Eyes of God for all who seek him.

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Thank you for your reply, I wasn't totally serious about annoying people being around, but as each annoying person is resurrected we'll need patience and the rest of the fruitage of God's spirit to deal with them.
Then, yes if they remain annoying (in that they will be too stubborn to change) then yes they will be forgotten- Isaiah 65:15

Seems as if I find something new each day in the Bible in that my old mind needs refreshing.
Not bored but sometimes more mentally tired than physically.
There will be lasting enjoyment - Isaiah 65:22 B

syo said:

This kind of God doesn't make sense.

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Right, and because the Bible's God created both angelic life and human life with the gift of free-will choices, then God did Not make anyone programmed to do right or wrong. We are all free to act responsibly toward God.

URAVIP2ME said:

Thank you for your reply, I wasn't totally serious about annoying people being around, but as each annoying person is resurrected we'll need patience and the rest of the fruitage of God's spirit to deal with them.
Then, yes if they remain annoying (in that they will be too stubborn to change) then yes they will be forgotten- Isaiah 65:15

Seems as if I find something new each day in the Bible in that my old mind needs refreshing.
Not bored but sometimes more mentally tired than physically.
There will be lasting enjoyment - Isaiah 65:22 B

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I guess I see annoying people as persons willfully ignorant. In this day and age, political correctness has replaced Christian civility. As consequence, we live in a world that holds nothing sacred, the Divine is the same as the profane. It is difficult now to participate plainly with greater society as it is annoying as it universally profanes the Person of God with wanton inchoate prideful ignorance.

It is said that western atheism has it start with Christian toleration. It became acceptable to be atheist in scholarly circles. This evolved to the post modernist mess we have today. But as per Rev 2:27, the Christ will return and rule with an iron rod. There will be no more room for the antichrists and no more room for doctrine of atheists/pagans/hypocrites.

An pagan can become a bishop, but a bishop cannot be a pagan.
or
The nuisance can become a bishop, but a bishop cannot be annoying.
1 Tim 3:1-7

LactoseIntolerant said:

I guess I see annoying people as persons willfully ignorant. In this day and age, political correctness has replaced Christian civility. As consequence, we live in a world that holds nothing sacred, the Divine is the same as the profane. It is difficult now to participate plainly with greater society as it is annoying as it universally profanes the Person of God with wanton inchoate prideful ignorance.
It is said that western atheism has it start with Christian toleration. It became acceptable to be atheist in scholarly circles. This evolved to the post modernist mess we have today. But as per Rev 2:27, the Christ will return and rule with an iron rod. There will be no more room for the antichrists and no more room for doctrine of atheists/pagans/hypocrites.
An pagan can become a bishop, but a bishop cannot be a pagan, or
The nuisance can become a bishop, but a bishop cannot be annoying. 1 Tim 3:1-7

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Yes, I can understand about someone being willfully ignorant, but I know a person who I would say has some form of 'arrested development', so is that person just 'willfull ' in proud mind or what can be the problem.
Yes, there seems to be No clear line but a blur between the Divine and the Profane.
I would Not say Christian toleration, but what 'Christendom' (so-called Christian - Matthew 7:21-23) tolerated.
'Christendom' being the post modernist or modern monstrosity that it is today.
When you say 'scholarly circles' that brings my mind back to the 60's and Columbia U. in NYC
In short, I said to one student 'if you don't like it here: leave'.
His atheistic response was to stay here (become a professor) and make it better.
So, how many such 'professors' has Columbia produced since the 60's teaching how to make it better here.
Over the decades parents have paid $$$$ to have such ' professors ' to teach atheistic ideas to their children.
Yes, an 'iron' rod (Rev. 2:27; 12:5; 10:15) and the 'sword-like executional words from Jesus' mouth ' to rid the Earth of those who bring ruin to Earth ( literal, moral, religious ) - Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 11:18 B

Frank Goad said:

Why did God make humans.If he knew from the start some would go to hell?I ask this because if God is all knowing.He knew some people were going to hell and some weren't.From the very beginning.

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Good parents don't hate their kids even if their kids do something stupid. Kids will hate their good parents because they feel like they deserved better. If your question includes the idea that God intended for his kids to go to hell from the very beginning than you are calling God a bad parent. This would be the case if He didn't come down and experienced life himself, bleeding the same blood we bleed. Experiencing the Hell on Earth that was given him, and then dying as we do. An all-knowing, all-mighty God wouldn't do this if He just intended to send even one of his kids (creations) to hell. Therefore, it must be thought that God is good and he intends ALL of his creations to NOT go to hell. Yet, we have choice in the end, which overrides any godly desire that God might have to keep us from a darkened fate.