615 people have been charged in the Capitol insurrection so far

fantome profane said:

What do you mean by “these people”?

When you say “these people”. Are you referring to all the people who showed up on Jan 6th? Are you referring to all Trump supporters? Or are “these people” the 615 who have been charged?

If it is the last one I think you are very wrong.


(And if it is the one on the other ones you are missing the point)

Click to expand...

I was referring to antifa and blm.

People who committed crimes on 1-6 have been rounded up and charged for their crimes. I approve. There appears to be far less enthusiasm among the left to arrest and incarcerate individuals among antifa or blm who choose to commit similar or worse crimes during riots.

This is what I mean by cognitive dissonance and hypocrisy.

Aštra’el said:

You misrepresent my position, but that is not surprising.

Click to expand...

You think the coup attempt in Washington, the riots of BLM and the antifascist violence of Antifa are all equivalent to one another, do you not?

In fact, you just said so yourself: You literally say that they have all committed "similar or worse crimes".

So I have not misrepresented your opinion on these groups.
You just don't like to see it written down by people you disagree with.

Kooky said:

You think the coup attempt in Washington, the riots of BLM and the antifascist violence of Antifa are all equivalent to one another, do you not?

Click to expand...

You obviously do not understand the difference between “individuals within these groups” and “the entire group”. Your reading comprehension is really not my problem.

Yes. There are individuals within blm and antifa who have committed equal or greater crimes than anything I saw from the idiots at the capitol during 1-6. This is obvious. And despite what the propaganda fueling your emotions compels you to believe, 1-6 was not a “coup attempt”, it was a bunch of pissed of people lashing out because their favorite politician lost the election. There was never any chance of them accomplishing anything like a “coup”, just making fools of themselves. The right has no issue denouncing those people’s actions yet there are countless cognitively dissonant hypocrites on the left will never denounce antifa or blm.

Aštra’el said:

I was referring to antifa and blm.

People who committed crimes on 1-6 have been rounded up and charged for their crimes. I approve. There appears to be far less enthusiasm among the left to arrest and incarcerate individuals among antifa or blm who choose to commit similar or worse crimes during riots.

This is what I mean by cognitive dissonance and hypocrisy.

Click to expand...

There should be no difficulty denouncing acts of violence and vandalism committed by individuals during BLM protests. Anyone caught committing such acts should be arrested, prosecuted and should spend time in jail. They are not helping the cause of BLM, quite the contrary. And anyone who witnessed such actions or has knowledge of them should come forward and help authorities make arrests.

Anything more you think should be said about this?

fantome profane said:

There should be no difficulty denouncing acts of violence and vandalism committed by individuals during BLM protests. Anyone caught committing such acts should be arrested, prosecuted and should spend time in jail. They are not helping the cause of BLM, quite the contrary. And anyone who witnessed such actions or has knowledge of them should come forward and help authorities make arrests.

Click to expand...

I am glad you feel that way. Hopefully more will in time.

Anything more you think should be said about this?

Click to expand...

Probably not. Any more posts here will likely just be a repeat or rephrasing of things that were argued many times before.

Have a good day.

Aštra’el said:

I was referring to antifa and blm.

People who committed crimes on 1-6 have been rounded up and charged for their crimes. I approve. There appears to be far less enthusiasm among the left to arrest and incarcerate individuals among antifa or blm who choose to commit similar or worse crimes during riots.

This is what I mean by cognitive dissonance and hypocrisy.

Click to expand...

So you see the two groups as equally bad.

Interesting.

Aštra’el said:

You obviously do not understand the difference between “individuals within these groups” and “the entire group”. Your reading comprehension is really not my problem.

Yes. There are individuals within blm and antifa who have committed equal or greater crimes than anything I saw from the idiots at the capitol during 1-6. This is obvious. And despite what the propaganda fueling your emotions compels you to believe, 1-6 was not a “coup attempt”, it was a bunch of pissed of people lashing out because their favorite politician lost the election. There was never any chance of them accomplishing anything like a “coup”, just making fools of themselves. The right has no issue denouncing those people’s actions yet there are countless cognitively dissonant hypocrites on the left will never denounce antifa or blm.

Click to expand...

It seems that there's a lot of wrangling and consternation over which side denounces whom and whether it's a strong enough denunciation to satisfy those who want them denounced.

As if any of it will make any difference when each individual case is decided in court.

It probably won't change very many people's minds either. Those who were pro-Trump prior to 1/6 will likely continue to be, and those who were against Trump will likely continue to be.

Likewise, those who support the causes of racial justice, equality, and civil rights will likely continue to do so, regardless of how anyone feels about antifa or BLM, which I've seen mixed opinions about. "Antifa" and "BLM" are just monikers that they use, but they're not the entire cause, in and of itself.

Besides, they're not singular organizations with a single leader, so denouncing them is more a matter of denouncing certain individuals who commit violent or criminal acts, without lumping them in with those who are peaceful and law-abiding.

Stevicus said:

It probably won't change very many people's minds either. Those who were pro-Trump prior to 1/6 will likely continue to be, and those who were against Trump will likely continue to be.

Click to expand...

Indeed. There aren't many Trumpists who will be fazed by the realization that they're in a movement of traitors.

Aštra’el said:

You obviously do not understand the difference between “individuals within these groups” and “the entire group”. Your reading comprehension is really not my problem.

Yes. There are individuals within blm and antifa who have committed equal or greater crimes than anything I saw from the idiots at the capitol during 1-6. This is obvious. And despite what the propaganda fueling your emotions compels you to believe, 1-6 was not a “coup attempt”, it was a bunch of pissed of people lashing out because their favorite politician lost the election. There was never any chance of them accomplishing anything like a “coup”, just making fools of themselves. The right has no issue denouncing those people’s actions yet there are countless cognitively dissonant hypocrites on the left will never denounce antifa or blm.

Click to expand...

Ah, so we have a fundamental disagreement over the facts on the ground. Fair enough.
Then all further discussion of this issue is going to be useless. Have a nice day.

Aštra’el said:

Yes. There are individuals within blm and antifa who have committed equal or greater crimes than anything I saw from the idiots at the capitol during 1-6. This is obvious. And despite what the propaganda fueling your emotions compels you to believe, 1-6 was not a “coup attempt”, it was a bunch of pissed of people lashing out because their favorite politician lost the election.

Click to expand...

Lashed out with a coup attempt, yes.

There was never any chance of them accomplishing anything like a “coup”, just making fools of themselves.

Click to expand...

The fact that a coup attempt is poorly planned, poorly executed, and doomed to failure doesn't make it not a coup attempt.

Incompetent traitors are still traitors.

metis said:

This is why a thorough bipartisan investigation by Congress is needed but only the Dems and a handful of Pubs are for it.

Click to expand...

There have already been multiple Congressional committee investigations of the events. What is not needed is a ideological kangaroo farce that some propose.

Aštra’el said:

There are individuals within blm and antifa who have committed equal or greater crimes than anything I saw from the idiots at the capitol during 1-6.

Click to expand...

Some of the 1-6 idiots (your word) beat police officers with flag poles and riot shields and sprayed them with pepper spray or bear spray.

Please name, or show videos of blm/antifa members doing that or worse.

Aštra’el said:

1-6 was not a “coup attempt”, it was a bunch of pissed of people lashing out because their favorite politician lost the election. There was never any chance of them accomplishing anything like a “coup”, just making fools of themselves.

Click to expand...

They entered the Capitol thinking they could get friendly republicans, including the VP to discard the results of the election. That was what they attempted. That that idea was doomed to fail does not change the intent of the insurrectionists.

Aštra’el said:

The right has no issue denouncing those people’s actions

Click to expand...

The "right" tried to block the Congressional investigation. The "right" called the incursion similar to a group of tourists visiting. Some on the "right" did denounce the rioters and then reversed course. Few (none?) on the "right" denounced Donald Trump or his son or any of the people on the stage with Trump. Few (none?) on the "right" denounced Trump for letting the riot continue.

Shaul said:

There have already been multiple Congressional committee investigations of the events. What is not needed is a ideological kangaroo farce that some propose.

Click to expand...

When were these investigations held?
Who held them?
What were the results of these investigations?
Were the results of the investigations published?

Shaul said:

There have already been multiple Congressional committee investigations of the events. What is not needed is a ideological kangaroo farce that some propose.

Click to expand...

The offering by this administration was to have a completely bipartisan committee mad up of equal representation. On top of this, there has not been an investigation whereas witnesses can be subpoenaed that could include which people may have helped to orchestrate what happened behind the scene on January 6th and then leading up to and including the 20th.

So, what are you afraid of, Saul? I tend to think that you know that Trump encouraged this and that it is at least hypothetically possible that some in his staff and maybe even some in Congress may have encouraged this. But then if one only watches Fox and the likes, maybe you don't know this.

Thus, if you don't know this, then that's all the more reason why a bipartisan investigation is in order.