stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
I have a different definition of "wonderful"
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Debate the Logic of a World Order.
- Thread starter TransmutingSoul
- Start date
They say that you make your own luck the harder you work and practice.
So personally I see that is what the Baha'i effort is towards World Peace, work hard at it, and practice it.
I also see we one and all do have the capacity to change and implement what is required, after all many already have. As the world suffers more from events that are a direct cause of our neglect of this planet, more will want that change.
Regards Tony
OB, I will again offer that in this age that will not be the foundation of that world legaslitive.
Maybe a very diatant future 1000 years or more, the lesser peace is of man chosen by man with a wide diversity of faith, no faith, morals and virtues.
It could be that when it does come to pass, that they ask advice from a religious body to guide their decisions, maybe even the Universal House of Justice.
Who knows?
Regards Tony
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Hitler has shown us not what to do
The comment is not appropriate as it also has absolutely no relevance to a world legislative, which is a body of people elected in each Nation to represent that Nation, which in turn elects the representation that will sit on the world body and has naught to do with any dictator.
Regards Tony
The Bible gives us understanding about what has transpired down through time from our beginnings in Genesis right through to the Revelation. It tells one story about what we lost due to man’s abandoning God’s direction and seeking to establish his own.
The prophet Jeremiah stated that...”it does not belong to man that walks to direct his steps.” (Jeremiah 10:23)
Because humans were not created with the capacity for self-rule, whatever they try...fails miserably. In every case, no matter what nation they occupy.....power corrupts them.
We believe that God has permitted humans to prove this fact to themselves, which is important because it was apparent that they could not be told...they had to be shown.....and enough time had to be granted so that every avenue of self-determination, devoid of God’s intervention (except for a guide book that he left for them to consult if they wanted to live life successfully....but only if they chose to).
Free will was a gift and used in the right way, would be a blessing.....used selfishly however, it would result in misery and conflict. And that is the sad history of man.....no ruler has ruled selflessly and for the good of all. We just can’t do it. Thousands of years of human rulership, and we still can’t stop killing each other.
Man’s “new world order” has been mooted for decades, but war always put paid to it. The very ones promoting it were the ones who destroyed the dream. Conflicts continue to the present...so where does this optimism come from that humans can achieve the ‘new world of peace’ on their own? He never has...he never will.
The key to God’s will being “done on earth as it is in heaven” is the “coming” of God’s Kingdom. In order to understand what God’s Kingdom will do, we first have to understand what it is.
This is where the prophet Daniel comes to our rescue.
Daniel was given information directly from God concerning man’s rulership over this earth from his day until the present.
He interpreted a dream that the king of Babylon had which came from God. It pertained to a march of world powers that would follow Babylon....true to his prophesy, Medo-Persia conquered Babylon, who was in turn overthrown by Greece...then the powerful Roman Empire would dominate...and lastly Britain and its alliance in the 20th century with America. These are the last “kings” or world powers of his prophesy.....and then Daniel foretells....
Daniel 2:44....
“In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed. And this kingdom will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it alone will stand forever”.
We notice that it is God who will bring in the rule of his Kingdom, (in the hands of his Christ) by crushing all failed human rulerships out of existence......and it will then replace them. So God’s Kingdom is a functioning government of God, made up of Jesus Christ as king together with his “elect” or those who are chosen from the earth to assist in bringing about this new governmental arrangement. With a full angelic army, these will make sure that any opposers of God’s rulership, will dealt with. All who survive these end times will go on to form the nucleus of the “new world”......and go on to enjoy the kind of life that we were offered in the beginning....unending life in paradise.
This is not the work of man, the majority of whom have supported man’s government and have expected them to continue their vain attempts to govern successfully...no matter how inept man’s efforts have been, they still offer to die for their country and support it’s bloodshed. History repeats because human’s never learn.
We believe that God’s Kingdom will “come”...ready or not....and that it’s citizens have already been chosen because these are the ones who have supported God’s rule in their lives, rather than supporting man’s efforts all along. They have proven worthy of citizenship under God’s Kingdom already....by not participating in divisive political issues or bloodshed...and not supporting the lies that are fed to the masses in order to get them to serve the interests of the economic system. These are law abiding citizens of their respective nations, serving God shoulder to shoulder with their fellow believers, not allowing politics, racial hatred or economics to divide them. They take care of one another already.
We see satan setting up an alternative “kingdom” of man to give humans what they desperately want....but it will never be a reality because it does not have God’s backing. God’s word has the power to transform lives and those who have tapped into that power are already living their best life in this world, prepared to live now as they will then. They have genuine love among themselves. (John 13:34-35)
May the “Kingdom come” soon, because we need it now more than ever as this world is in its death throes....in total chaos. There is no good news except for God’s Kingdom. (Matthew 24:14)
Satan is causing as much trouble as he can in his last attempts to lead people away from God....what he did to Job, he is doing to all of us. We can stand firm as he did, and receive an even greater blessing. God is in control of everything and has told us what to expect. There is wonderful new world coming.....but humans will have no part in bringing it about.
That is what we believe.....
It indeed is Deeje and I hope all is well with you.
Given my years of discussions with this with other JW's, my guess is we should leave it at that.
I will offer though. The Spirit of Christ can influence and guide men to rule with Justice and Virtue, as long as those men place God first and foremost.
I have great hope that mankind will rise to that challenge.
I do not see it will unfold as the JW have expected, mainly because I see 1844 or 1260 was the year humanity slept through and the Thief in the Night came.
Regards Tony
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
I don't know if there was more debate about this, but even in the U.S. big corporations have so much power and sway with the government. How do Baha'is think that capitalism will be done away with and what economic system do Baha'is suggest will replace it?
It appears CG that this will be the way;
Bahá’u’lláh wrote: “Soon will the present-day order be rolled up, and a new one spread out in its stead.” “After a time,” He further wrote, “all the governments on earth will change. Oppression will envelop the world. And following a universal convulsion, the sun of justice will rise from the horizon of the unseen realm.”
I will put a letter by the Universal House of Justice to an Individual who asked much the same question and the reply they gave him.
That contains a very detailed explanation.
Regards Tony
osgart
Nothing my eye, Something for sure
They say that you make your own luck the harder you work and practice.
So personally I see that is what the Baha'i effort is towards World Peace, work hard at it, and practice it.
I also see we one and all do have the capacity to change and implement what is required, after all many already have. As the world suffers more from events that are a direct cause of our neglect of this planet, more will want that change.
Regards Tony
I see everyone has capacity to choose peace, but there will never be a time where all people on earth will choose it.
A person is only human, and there are flesh and blood limitations to what people can and will take. Just watch you tube for a day and you'll see a lot of people that have no interest in peace, and have zero tolerance for people that are not after what they are after. Brotherhood and friendship take a back seat to vain glory for a lot of people.
Since when is true love the focus of the people in power? A lot of people are driven by prosperity moreso then being of service to others.
So you'll always have the good, the bad, and the ugly so long as humans live on earth running society. It would take a God to change reality.
I mean it's a beautiful dream that people would care so much about everybody else. But human nature changes from generation to generation. One generation produces the Nazis. The next generation who knows what they will be about. Each generation is a fight for what matters most in life. And when the old guard dies, the new one has to pick up where they left off. And the battle starts over again with new circumstances, and new challenges.
I've seen a lot of bad and I see no reason to think the fight for love and goodness will ever be over and done with. I think in the modern age people care less and less about true love and peace. Maybe I got a bad internet connection or something. But it's an individual choice as to what people will live and die for. I don't see any slam dunks for all people choosing peace.
I see you are correct, in this world there will always be that choice between good and evil and it is all about the balance.
I see a future where the balance will be a majority of Good and it is only then that the World Legislative can be built and function how it needs to, as it will be founded on greater principles.
Regards Tony
rational experiences
Veteran Member
In life I realised chosen first began with man.
As status creation is self owned self formed. As bodies created in natural creation owning no argument.
A human describing creation says it is natural. We are natural also. No choice as natural lives supported in its owned conditions.
Life says no choice. Natural conditions only.
Men used words of humans language to describe everything. Their choice. They then said I know everything.
Motivated choice to know God by force to change God by laws of force.
God natural was only evolving naturally. Men of science chose to change God.
The exact self human teachings. Chosen by men who claim I will do whatever I want.
Natural determined otherwise. Why the claim status is God by natural events my choice destroyed sacrificed life. Yet destruction in natural causes was never my science choice for self.
A self human teaching.
Hence Jesus asked father why.
Men hence say my words are my words and are right yet in using words he was proven wrong. Ego using words hence argues as men say my words explaining natural before science was correct.
The question is why man chose science as it is a proven evil anti status!
The opposition to life is chosen by human men in groups. Science began as a same chosen human men group.
The teaching is relative to human reasoning.
Humans chose science humans then in return are changed by natural.
And it is advice for everyone. Not making any teacher especial.
Another Jesus teaching.
If a human has to bring awAreness to others it is due to love of family and humanity. So we say I am a Messenger only so status and egotism is not inferred to the information said by one human.
As humans in reality take status to infer inequality.
Now science in life says I observe innately all things. Ponders the human behaviour religious stating science egotism. My observation is correct he says you are not observing your own teachings.
I am not a scientist and not a religious leadership I am natural and equal and state science observations caused all wrongs by human choice. The teaching.
Man sought details claiming good and evil. So knew. He then used the information in science against his own person. Causing all wrongs.
Religion and science both conclude science is wrong. Yet both use one self entitled status to argue the claim.
A natural human sees religion is scientific based and science was always wrong as it does not own natural presence. Say the status first you do not own natural to a human they will argue first. I am natural.
So we are only dealing with human egotism.
Why humans had to.placate explanations so science could not infer that it had invented and created form as a human.
Proving his egotistical status as humans in science and how they became as theists possessed by human science status as the status is inferred and implied.
Teaching had to state no man is God as you did not create creation.
A basic observation. Once they said God being earth was the grail. Now the claim is wholly cosmic to be first man on earth to own everything.
As status creation is self owned self formed. As bodies created in natural creation owning no argument.
A human describing creation says it is natural. We are natural also. No choice as natural lives supported in its owned conditions.
Life says no choice. Natural conditions only.
Men used words of humans language to describe everything. Their choice. They then said I know everything.
Motivated choice to know God by force to change God by laws of force.
God natural was only evolving naturally. Men of science chose to change God.
The exact self human teachings. Chosen by men who claim I will do whatever I want.
Natural determined otherwise. Why the claim status is God by natural events my choice destroyed sacrificed life. Yet destruction in natural causes was never my science choice for self.
A self human teaching.
Hence Jesus asked father why.
Men hence say my words are my words and are right yet in using words he was proven wrong. Ego using words hence argues as men say my words explaining natural before science was correct.
The question is why man chose science as it is a proven evil anti status!
The opposition to life is chosen by human men in groups. Science began as a same chosen human men group.
The teaching is relative to human reasoning.
Humans chose science humans then in return are changed by natural.
And it is advice for everyone. Not making any teacher especial.
Another Jesus teaching.
If a human has to bring awAreness to others it is due to love of family and humanity. So we say I am a Messenger only so status and egotism is not inferred to the information said by one human.
As humans in reality take status to infer inequality.
Now science in life says I observe innately all things. Ponders the human behaviour religious stating science egotism. My observation is correct he says you are not observing your own teachings.
I am not a scientist and not a religious leadership I am natural and equal and state science observations caused all wrongs by human choice. The teaching.
Man sought details claiming good and evil. So knew. He then used the information in science against his own person. Causing all wrongs.
Religion and science both conclude science is wrong. Yet both use one self entitled status to argue the claim.
A natural human sees religion is scientific based and science was always wrong as it does not own natural presence. Say the status first you do not own natural to a human they will argue first. I am natural.
So we are only dealing with human egotism.
Why humans had to.placate explanations so science could not infer that it had invented and created form as a human.
Proving his egotistical status as humans in science and how they became as theists possessed by human science status as the status is inferred and implied.
Teaching had to state no man is God as you did not create creation.
A basic observation. Once they said God being earth was the grail. Now the claim is wholly cosmic to be first man on earth to own everything.
Ponder This
Well-Known Member
Religious Forums
11 And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech.
2 And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there.
3 And they said one to another, Go to, let us make brick, and burn them throughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for morter.
4 And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.
5 And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.
6 And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.
7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.
8 So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.
9 Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.
A New World Order does not "need" to happen. In fact, sometimes it "needs" to not happen.
I didn't think something you posted would make me sad. You seem like a nice guy, but this... to imagine a world where people are not rewarded according to the work they do and to make that the top of your to do list... to deprive people of the fruits of their labor. It is no wonder that a New World Order can not be allowed: because of the things that they imagine to do.
As for World Peace, we can achieve that without a New World Order. We do not need a Hitler to imagine a perfect world as he believes we ought to live.
New Order (Nazism)
The New Order (German: Neuordnung) of Europe was the political order which Nazi Germany wanted to impose on the conquered areas under its dominion. The establishment of the Neuordnung had already begun long before the start of World War II, but was publicly proclaimed by Adolf Hitler in 1941: "The year 1941 will be, I am convinced, the historical year of a great European New Order!"[1]
The response to Hitler's New Order was a United Nations, whose purpose it is to insure that such as Hitler do not arise again and throw all the world into chaos yet again.Let New World Order go, be at peace one with another and please stop this incessant desire ("need") to control others because of the things that you imagine to do.
Go and Be at Peace, Please.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
world order just refers to how the world is organized. How it is organized today is today's world order. How it will be reorganized next year will be a new world order. I don't understand why people knee-jerk react with alarm to the phrase.
I think that the world is moving away from national warfare. Country's have simply figured out that if they want more resources, its a lot easier to pay for them than to go to war. Thus, I believe countries will make doing international business easier and easier.
I can't see a time when one government will rule the whole world -- I don't think such a thing can be sustained. I my view, smaller functions better. Smaller schools. Smaller towns. Smaller religious congregations. Smaller countries. A one-world government would simply cross the line into complete dysfunction.
But like I said, individual countries will become far more cooperative with each other, because that is what is good for business.
I think that the world is moving away from national warfare. Country's have simply figured out that if they want more resources, its a lot easier to pay for them than to go to war. Thus, I believe countries will make doing international business easier and easier.
I can't see a time when one government will rule the whole world -- I don't think such a thing can be sustained. I my view, smaller functions better. Smaller schools. Smaller towns. Smaller religious congregations. Smaller countries. A one-world government would simply cross the line into complete dysfunction.
But like I said, individual countries will become far more cooperative with each other, because that is what is good for business.
You have replied to my comments with your thoughts on capitalism.
My ideas are based on what it can become and not what it currently means, which ties back into a conversation I was having with another, who responded to a specific post.
Regards Tony
Your quoted passage are not the whole picture which is presented about the future foretold of in the Bible.
Regards Tony
I see the science fiction movies like Star Wars have shown how a union of all Nations can happen.
Also there is a model system where governance can happen very successfully on a world scale and I see a future where the Nations could adopt the same principles. This system includes people from every village, town and nations.
Regards Tony
rational experiences
Veteran Member
Each country has within itself multiple tribes of humanity.
The place where a nation begets it's family reunion first.
Then it is obvious diversity of DNA is national status. Always was.
We then share each nations tribal unified diversity. Yet we always said it has to begin at home. Then community. Then governing. Then world unity.
Family human is first is not any new world order. DNA human changes in a shared human mutual society. It always had.
New world orders were claimed for dominion over all others causing everyone else to suffer. And it is personal egotism sought in groups.
If you cannot gain unity first and equality within your own nation. Already a lack of family equality is demonstrated.
The first instance unnatural separation was always national inequality first.
DNA self status separation by a God earth act irradiation of human kind is an immense problem of causes to overcome. As we taught planet earth reactive change had caused the inheritance.
Why spiritual brain emotional purpose as entrainment was imposed as it tried to unify humanity via a self spiritual purpose.
Science said it needed to prove first human DNA parents were originally of the exact same DNA types. And radiation fallout diversified and separated the human family.
As the reason was human choice science. Knowing we are to blame for all inherited problems.
So then we could overcome our emotional instability knowing why human family began to be angered and hateful of our own survival.
The place where a nation begets it's family reunion first.
Then it is obvious diversity of DNA is national status. Always was.
We then share each nations tribal unified diversity. Yet we always said it has to begin at home. Then community. Then governing. Then world unity.
Family human is first is not any new world order. DNA human changes in a shared human mutual society. It always had.
New world orders were claimed for dominion over all others causing everyone else to suffer. And it is personal egotism sought in groups.
If you cannot gain unity first and equality within your own nation. Already a lack of family equality is demonstrated.
The first instance unnatural separation was always national inequality first.
DNA self status separation by a God earth act irradiation of human kind is an immense problem of causes to overcome. As we taught planet earth reactive change had caused the inheritance.
Why spiritual brain emotional purpose as entrainment was imposed as it tried to unify humanity via a self spiritual purpose.
Science said it needed to prove first human DNA parents were originally of the exact same DNA types. And radiation fallout diversified and separated the human family.
As the reason was human choice science. Knowing we are to blame for all inherited problems.
So then we could overcome our emotional instability knowing why human family began to be angered and hateful of our own survival.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
You know it was back in the 70's when I was studying the Baha'i Faith and going to meetings. But I thought they expected to rule the world. I was told the "lessor" peace, the peace where all the leaders of all the nations get together, would happen by the year 2000. But the "Greater" Peace, I thought that was Baha'i rule? That things would get so bad, like it seems that they are, that all the people would turn to the Baha'i Faith and let them run things.
Now I doubt they could. What would a group of elected Baha'is in each town and city know about running things? Then a group of Baha'is running a whole country? And then nine Baha'is at the World Centre running things for the whole world? Right now, all they do is try and run things for the Baha'i community. How they going to all of a sudden know how to run the world? Oh yeah, turn to the Baha'i teachings on "How to run the world".
That is not how the lesser peace will work.
It will be represented by elected members of all the Nations and Republics and countries of the world, with the minority having a strong voice.
Regards Tony