Trinitarians will win anyway?

I believe that the Trinitarians will win even if the Trinity were not true. The Trinity is of course true, but assuming only that it is wrong, I would say that Trinitarians will still go to paradise. For what does the Father want to say? Does he really want to say to a Trinitarian at the end, "Wait, you believed that my only begotten Son and my Spirit are God as I am? You wicked man! To hell with you!" Never would he say that. He would love it if someone honored his beloved son and spirit like that. But what about Unitarians? If the Trinity is true, then it is a very serious sin not to believe in it, because you would be denying God His deity. Jesus himself said, "If you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins"

Teritos said:

I believe that the Trinitarians will win even if the Trinity were not true. The Trinity is of course true, but assuming only that it is wrong, I would say that Trinitarians will still go to paradise. For what does the Father want to say? Does he really want to say to a Trinitarian at the end, "Wait, you believed that my only begotten Son and my Spirit are God as I am? You wicked man! To hell with you!" Never would he say that. He would love it if someone honored his beloved son and spirit like that. But what about Unitarians? If the Trinity is true, then it is a very serious sin not to believe in it, because you would be denying God His deity. Jesus himself said, "If you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins"

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Will win? Is there still a competition about that in this century?

By the way, who won the fight about the sex of the angels? The news won't say.

Ciao

- viole

Sounds like a form of Pascal's Wager, in a way.

I certainly respect God's spirit but I do not believe it is a separate "person". Humans also have spirits but my spirit is certainly not a separate person. It is the part of me that gives me life and makes me different from other people. God has a son and a spirit. His son is a separate person but his spirit is not. I have a son and a spirit. My son is a separate person but my soirit is not.

Teritos said:

I believe that the Trinitarians will win even if the Trinity were not true. The Trinity is of course true, but assuming only that it is wrong, I would say that Trinitarians will still go to paradise. For what does the Father want to say? Does he really want to say to a Trinitarian at the end, "Wait, you believed that my only begotten Son and my Spirit are God as I am? You wicked man! To hell with you!" Never would he say that. He would love it if someone honored his beloved son and spirit like that. But what about Unitarians? If the Trinity is true, then it is a very serious sin not to believe in it, because you would be denying God His deity. Jesus himself said, "If you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins"

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Wow, if only it were an either/or choice. Then anybody would have at least a 50/50 chance.

KAT-KAT said:

Sounds like a form of Pascal's Wager, in a way.

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It's the only way to go when people have no means of substantiation.

The boogeyman under the bed.

Come to think of it, the boogeyman is actually scarier.

Teritos said:

I believe that the Trinitarians will win even if the Trinity were not true. The Trinity is of course true, but assuming only that it is wrong, I would say that Trinitarians will still go to paradise. For what does the Father want to say? Does he really want to say to a Trinitarian at the end, "Wait, you believed that my only begotten Son and my Spirit are God as I am? You wicked man! To hell with you!" Never would he say that. He would love it if someone honored his beloved son and spirit like that. But what about Unitarians? If the Trinity is true, then it is a very serious sin not to believe in it, because you would be denying God His deity. Jesus himself said, "If you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins"

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There is a non-Trinitarian view that also believes in the deity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. What’s your thoughts on the Oneness view of God?

Teritos said:

...Does he really want to say to a Trinitarian at the end, "Wait, you believed that my only begotten Son and my Spirit are God as I am? You wicked man! To hell with you!" Never would he say that....

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In Bible eternal life is promised for righteous.

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

Righteous person is loyal (faithful) to God.

... the righteous will live by faith. If he shrinks back, my soul has no pleasure in him.
Hebrews 10:38

Do you think you are loyal to God, or Jesus, if you ignore what Jesus said?

This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ.
John 17:3

…the Father is greater than I.
John 14:28

And also, Paul confirms what Jesus said.

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
1 Timothy 2:5

Can a righteous person reject what Jesus said and replace it with his own doctrines?

Teritos said:

I believe that the Trinitarians will win even if the Trinity were not true. The Trinity is of course true, but assuming only that it is wrong, I would say that Trinitarians will still go to paradise. For what does the Father want to say? Does he really want to say to a Trinitarian at the end, "Wait, you believed that my only begotten Son and my Spirit are God as I am? You wicked man! To hell with you!" Never would he say that. He would love it if someone honored his beloved son and spirit like that. But what about Unitarians? If the Trinity is true, then it is a very serious sin not to believe in it, because you would be denying God His deity. Jesus himself said, "If you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins"

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Very interesting concept.
It is difficult for one to understand the Lord, if one has a faulty concept of him.


Jesus said, “The first of all the commandments is ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one; therefore you are to love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul.’” (Mark 12:29, 30)

Hear, O Israel, Jehovah our God is one Jehovah; you are to love Jehovah your God with all your heart and with all your soul. (Deuteronomy 6:4, 5)

Someone came to Jesus and said, “Good Teacher, what good thing should I do in order to have eternal life?” Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except the one God.” (Matthew 19:16, 17)

. . . so that all the kingdoms of the earth may acknowledge that you alone are Jehovah. (Isaiah 37:20)

I am Jehovah and there is no other. There is no God other than me. [I have prepared you] so that people will know from the rising of the sun to its setting that there is no God other than me. I am Jehovah and there is no other. (Isaiah 45:5, 6)

Jehovah Sabaoth, God of Israel, dwelling between the angel guardians, you alone are God over all the kingdoms of the earth. (Isaiah 37:16)
Is there any God other than me? Or any other Rock? I do not know of one. (Isaiah 44:8)

Who is God, except Jehovah? Who is the Rock, if it is not our God? (Psalms 18:31)

Teritos said:

I believe that the Trinitarians will win even if the Trinity were not true. The Trinity is of course true, but assuming only that it is wrong, I would say that Trinitarians will still go to paradise. For what does the Father want to say? Does he really want to say to a Trinitarian at the end, "Wait, you believed that my only begotten Son and my Spirit are God as I am? You wicked man! To hell with you!" Never would he say that. He would love it if someone honored his beloved son and spirit like that. But what about Unitarians? If the Trinity is true, then it is a very serious sin not to believe in it, because you would be denying God His deity. Jesus himself said, "If you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins"

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I will approach that very unusual comment another way.

You obviously believe in faith alone.
But you are saying that if you find out that your belief in who God is, happens to be untrue, then you get a free pass.
So you can have a belief of something (faith alone) that allegedly gives you a free pass, but your untrue belief in God should ALSO give you a free pass.
It sounds like you have convinced yourself of your free pass regardless of what you think or do, so why bother asking for anyone else’s ideas?

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

You see, there is a problem. If you don’t have the truth, you are not in Jesus, and cannot come to the Father.

There's an interesting article to read here, about how the parts of the Bible that obliquely reference a doctrine of the Trinity were almost certainly added later. Fabrications and forgeries, made once a particular Christian faction had won the debate in the first few centuries, before the effort was undertaken to mass produce the earliest Bibles in scriptoriums.

1 John 5:7 And Matthew 28:19 – Fabricated Trinity Verses

Uh oh. According to this analysis, which many biblical scholars endorse, anyone who isn't a unitarian is likely worshipping false gods before Yaweh and is damned to eternal torment. Oops?

Or maybe only the Mormons got it right. Or the Episcopalians. Or the Greek Orthodox church. Either way, god gets to infinitely torture virtually every sentient being in his creation, all according to his mysterious perfectly good plan...

lostwanderingsoul said:

I certainly respect God's spirit but I do not believe it is a separate "person". Humans also have spirits but my spirit is certainly not a separate person. It is the part of me that gives me life and makes me different from other people. God has a son and a spirit. His son is a separate person but his spirit is not. I have a son and a spirit. My son is a separate person but my soirit is not.

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You should not compare yourself with God's nature, for can your spirit be sent like God's spirit or can your spirit teach?
But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and remind you of everything I have told you. John 14:26
Can your spirit speak like the spirit of God?
the Holy Spirit said: "Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them" Acts of the Apostles 13:2
Can your spirit be lied to like the spirit of God?
But Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit" Acts of the Apostles 5:3

There are many other passages that make it clear that the Holy Spirit is a separate person.

Psalm23 said:

There is a non-Trinitarian view that also believes in the deity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. What’s your thoughts on the Oneness view of God?

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Everyone and only those who believe that God became man and was crucified will go to paradise.

Teritos said:

Everyone and only those who believe that God became man and was crucified will go to paradise.

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Does not how a persons action, words and thoughts have anything to say about if this person get to heaven or not?
As long a person believe in God, they have a free pass in to heaven? Sound to easy

Conscious thoughts said:

Does not how a persons action, words and thoughts have anything to say about if this person get to heaven or not?
As long a person believe in God, they have a free pass in to heaven? Sound to easy

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The Bible: If you believe in the incarnation of God and in his crucifixion and resurrection, you are saved.

Teritos said:

The Bible: If you believe in the incarnation of God and in his crucifixion and resurrection, you are saved.

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oh

Teritos said:

You should not compare yourself with God's nature, for can your spirit be sent like God's spirit or can your spirit teach?
But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and remind you of everything I have told you. John 14:26
Can your spirit speak like the spirit of God?
the Holy Spirit said: "Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them" Acts of the Apostles 13:2
Can your spirit be lied to like the spirit of God?
But Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit" Acts of the Apostles 5:3

There are many other passages that make it clear that the Holy Spirit is a separate person.

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John 4:24 dsys that God IS a spirit not God has a spirit. Of course God's spirit can teach and help people and since only God is holy then His spirit is holy. Still does not make it a separate person.

Teritos said:

Everyone and only those who believe that God became man and was crucified will go to paradise.

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I believe Jesus is God become man, crucified for our sins and rose again.

When you say everyone who believes I thought of James 2:19.
The Scripture says in James 2:19 that “ thou believeth that there is one God; thou doeth well: the devils also believe , and tremble.”

The devils here believe but there is not love for Jesus nor commitment or desire to follow God.

What do you make of this verse?

AlexanderG said:

Or maybe only the Mormons got it right. Or the Episcopalians. Or the Greek Orthodox church. Either way, god gets to infinitely torture virtually every sentient being in his creation, all according to his mysterious perfectly good plan...

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Well, all you doubters better hope the Mormons got it right, because they don't believe in that eternal torture nonsense -- not even for you wicked atheists.

Psalm23 said:

I believe Jesus is God become man, crucified for our sins and rose again.

When you say everyone who believes I thought of James 2:19.
The Scripture says in James 2:19 that “ thou believeth that there is one God; thou doeth well: the devils also believe , and tremble.”

The devils here believe but there is not love for Jesus nor commitment or desire to follow God.

What do you make of this verse?

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I don't know what you are trying to say. A Christian naturally lives a moral life.

The criminal on the cross went to paradise without doing anything, he just believed Jesus.