No Magic

Nakosis said:

No Magic, no supernatural stuff.

Does this make reality more or less interesting to you?

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Hmmm... It makes me feel more grounded.

Years ago I decided to seriously subject my beliefs to intellectually honest scrutiny. I learned about my biases and how my understanding of reality had skewed my experiences, perceptions and interactions with it. Upon learning this, I then attempted to toss out any known biases and ideas that didn't yield useful or accurate results. Supernatural beliefs turned out to be one of those things I couldn't justify a real use for, and they didn't accurately reflect reality, so I kicked em to the curb.

Getting as close to understanding objective reality through the limited means I possess turns out to be something I have taken a great interest in. I'm not perfect, and I'm limited in my subjective understanding, but I have a better grasp of what's going on than I did before, and I find that exciting!

Nakosis said:

No crystals, no good luck charms, no prayer fulfillment. Nothing but physics and repeatable cause and effect. Mundane reality. Is this good enough or do you need more?

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A reality based in the ideas of substance monism isn't a reality without wonder. Day to day life is already a thing of wonder right now. All of existence teams with complexity that we are only begining to scratch the surface of, and there is no end in sight to the things we can learn from it. I think that's pretty cool!

Nakosis said:

Is it possible to be happy without the other stuff?

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I can still live a "spiritual" life without believing in literal spirits. Mastery of the human spirit, of my self and my life, is far more rewarding than what I had in the past. For the first time I know what it means to be happy in a healthy, fulfilling way. In strengthening myself, I can more positively impact those in my life.

Now, everything I have said here only applies to me. These are my experiences, and you may have come upon a different conclusion based on the things you have experienced in life. Everyone walks their own path and comes away with something different. That's what it means to experience life subjectively, and every one of us deals with factors no one else will ever be able to truly comprehend.

We can only empathize with our own ideas of what we think other people are thinking.

Shakeel said:

No doubt atheists can feel happy about things, but can they be truly happy? No.

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Interesting information coming from a non atheist. Oh, and you are mistaken.

Nakosis said:

No Magic, no supernatural stuff.

Does this make reality more or less interesting to you?

No crystals, no good luck charms, no prayer fulfillment. Nothing but physics and repeatable cause and effect. Mundane reality. Is this good enough or do you need more?

Is it possible to be happy without the other stuff?

Click to expand...

If there is no God and possibility for something better or more than this world, I'd just kill myself because all the suffering was for nothing and life is a nightmare for countless millions around the world. Why keep up the charade?

Nakosis said:

No Magic, no supernatural stuff.

Does this make reality more or less interesting to you?

No crystals, no good luck charms, no prayer fulfillment. Nothing but physics and repeatable cause and effect. Mundane reality. Is this good enough or do you need more?

Is it possible to be happy without the other stuff?

Click to expand...

Part of the answer is it is impossible for some to believe in the other stuff so it's not an option even if it were to make things more interesting. So being happy without them is possible. It better be or there would be many more unhappy people.

Nakosis said:

No Magic, no supernatural stuff.

Does this make reality more or less interesting to you?

No crystals, no good luck charms, no prayer fulfillment. Nothing but physics and repeatable cause and effect. Mundane reality. Is this good enough or do you need more?

Is it possible to be happy without the other stuff?

Click to expand...

Yes.

The fact that everything that we see, and do, and think, and even ‘feel’ are all explainable, and understandable is super-colossally ultra-cosmic-grippingly fantastic!!

Now we don’t just have to sit around like frogs watching a spectacular fireworks display, having “faith” that it is all way beyond our comprehension.
Now every wondrous event and rare phenomenon is something to explore and learn from: a challenge and a puzzle to solve. Which leads to more stupendous wonders that have to be solved; which leads to more….



Saying, “It’s magic” or “God did it” would lead to a boring life, and a boring people.

How about a completely naturalistic God; one that can only operate within the bounds of nature? Is that ruled out?

Poofery is boring. If magic is to be anything then it has to have mechanics and laws. Or is that ruled out?

Or maybe supernatural laws can't violate natural laws, but yet they can't be explained by classical physics.

Is QM naturalistic?

What does naturalism even mean? There is probably more things out there that defy that intuition more then not.

Nakosis said:

No Magic, no supernatural stuff.

Does this make reality more or less interesting to you?

No crystals, no good luck charms, no prayer fulfillment. Nothing but physics and repeatable cause and effect. Mundane reality. Is this good enough or do you need more?

Is it possible to be happy without the other stuff?

Click to expand...

Regular old reality is good enough.
The world is full of wonder.

Don’t believe in magic, although watching magicians perform their illusions is fun.

Nakosis said:

No Magic, no supernatural stuff.

Does this make reality more or less interesting to you?

No crystals, no good luck charms, no prayer fulfillment. Nothing but physics and repeatable cause and effect. Mundane reality. Is this good enough or do you need more?

Is it possible to be happy without the other stuff?

Click to expand...

We grew up never been taught of all of those magic stuff. So far, so good.

"Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?" - Douglas Adams.

viole said:

Of course it is. I, and my family (all atheists), are quite happy. But not maximally happy, unfortunately. We are indeed a bit sorry for people who need to believe in implausible myths to be happy. too.

Ciao

- viole

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I'm a bit curious that you refer to yourself as a gnostic atheist. Am I right in taking that to mean that you claim to know for a fact that there is definitely no God?

Nakosis said:

Is this good enough or do you need more?

Is it possible to be happy without the other stuff?

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What if there is more, regardless of whether it brings us happiness or sadness?

Nakosis said:

No Magic, no supernatural stuff.

Does this make reality more or less interesting to you?

No crystals, no good luck charms, no prayer fulfillment. Nothing but physics and repeatable cause and effect. Mundane reality. Is this good enough or do you need more?

Is it possible to be happy without the other stuff?

Click to expand...

Well, let's separate out magic (which is not real) from the perception of people that ther is a divine.

I think that people can be happy thinking there is no God. But they are still missing out. It's like people being happy when they are deaf.

Nakosis said:

No Magic, no supernatural stuff.

Does this make reality more or less interesting to you?

No crystals, no good luck charms, no prayer fulfillment. Nothing but physics and repeatable cause and effect. Mundane reality. Is this good enough or do you need more?

Is it possible to be happy without the other stuff?

Click to expand...

Mundane is boring

Nakosis said:

No Magic, no supernatural stuff.

Does this make reality more or less interesting to you?

No crystals, no good luck charms, no prayer fulfillment. Nothing but physics and repeatable cause and effect. Mundane reality. Is this good enough or do you need more?

Is it possible to be happy without the other stuff?

Click to expand...

Nah! ..... Let's have some magic and supernatural around, because some science turns out to be wrong/daft/stupid quite often.

I think I'll hug a crystal today.

Tiberius said:

I'm a bit curious that you refer to yourself as a gnostic atheist. Am I right in taking that to mean that you claim to know for a fact that there is definitely no God?

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That's right.

Ciao

- viole

viole said:

That's right.

Ciao

- viole

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I would like for you to explain how it is possible to believe in a god/gods in naturalistic terms.
No, not that is wrong, because of this problem.

Someone: The world is natural.
Me: No!
S: That is wrong.
Me: Then it is a natural fact of how the world works, that it is wrong. Wrong is a part of the natural world. So what is wrong in natural terms?

Nakosis said:

No Magic, no supernatural stuff.

Does this make reality more or less interesting to you?

No crystals, no good luck charms, no prayer fulfillment. Nothing but physics and repeatable cause and effect. Mundane reality. Is this good enough or do you need more?

Is it possible to be happy without the other stuff?

Click to expand...

Im happy with reality and no make believe

ChristineM said:

Im happy with reality and no make believe

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There is no objective evidence for happiness. It is a first person subjective illusion and it is not objectively real and has no physical referent. You believe in something without evidence. You are a believer.

Nakosis said:

No Magic, no supernatural stuff.

Does this make reality more or less interesting to you?

No crystals, no good luck charms, no prayer fulfillment. Nothing but physics and repeatable cause and effect. Mundane reality. Is this good enough or do you need more?

Is it possible to be happy without the other stuff?

Click to expand...

If you think physics describes a mundane reality, I suggest you do a bit of research into Quantum Theory. For now, since you mentioned cause and effect, I’ll leave you with this quote from Carlo Rovelli’s ‘The Order of Time’…

“We often say that causes precede effects and yet, in the elementary grammar of things, there is no distinction between ‘cause’ and ‘effect’. There are regularities, represented by what we call physical laws, that link events of different times, but they are symmetric between future and past. In microscopic description, there can be no sense in which the past is different from the future.”

Nearly two millennia before physicists began questioning our intuitive (mis)understanding of time btw, a Buddhist philosopher monk made this observation;

“A non abiding time cannot be apprehended; an abiding time that can be apprehended does not exist. And how is a non apprehended time conceived?”

- Nagarjuna, The Middle Way

So, mundane reality? Don’t think so.

“There are two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle.”

- Albert Einstein

Saint Frankenstein said:

If there is no God and possibility for something better or more than this world, I'd just kill myself because all the suffering was for nothing and life is a nightmare for countless millions around the world. Why keep up the charade?

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Because we might, just might be able to make the world a better place in some tiny little way for just one person and that is good enough for me.