Is God a spirit?

messianicmystic · Feb 1, 2007

I believe the word "image" in the passage under discussion comes from a Hebrew root that means "shadow". If this is indeed the case, the statement probably has little to do with man's physical body being that "image". If we read it, "Let us make man in our shadow." Then the meaning may be something similar to how we say, "I'm always in so and so's shadow." This means that "so and so" is greater than me but it a way in which we are nonetheless alike. For example, an artist may say that he's perpetually in the shadow of his teacher who is also an artist, just a better one. However, an artist wouldn't likely say he's in the shadow of a great basketball player because of the total lack of similarity between the two. This may be why the phrase "in our image (or shadow)" is often coupled with "and likeness", "likeness" expressing the similarity required to make sense of "in our shadow". I also think it's no coincidence that this phrase, in the passage under discussion, is often in close proximity to statements about man being caretaker of the animals, plants and the earth. Perhaps, the likeness is that as God is our caretaker, we are caretakers of others, but we are in his "shadow" in that he is much better at it.

wizanda · Feb 1, 2007

Though I have seen God and can describe it, i don't have enough words or expression to do it justice....yet really i feel God is beyond spirit now....as Angels are like us and contain the same spirit that is quantifiable...God on the other hand has so many aspects, goes so deep that to even look upon what God truly is would destroy most spirits....
As the underlying basics of what God is without images, is like a massive super computer in the middle of all consciousness....
imagine a spirit is a Quark and an angel is an advance quark where the energy has folded over its self to become more....

Well God is beyond that, it's sort of like looking into a black whole with no bottom, yet brilliant like the sun....all reflective, yet all attractive; all opposites are in one being...

love · Feb 1, 2007

wizanda said:
Though I have seen God and can describe it, i don't have enough words or expression to do it justice....yet really i feel God is beyond spirit now....as Angels are like us and contain the same spirit that is quantifiable...God on the other hand has so many aspects, goes so deep that to even look upon what God truly is would destroy most spirits....
As the underlying basics of what God is without images, is like a massive super computer in the middle of all consciousness....
imagine a spirit is a Quark and an angel is an advance quark where the energy has folded over its self to become more....

Well God is beyond that, it's sort of like looking into a black whole with no bottom, yet brilliant like the sun....all reflective, yet all attractive; all opposites are in one being...

Someone gave me some mushrooms over 30 years ago, but I haven't seen God since.

gnostic · Feb 1, 2007

sandy whitelinger said:
In trying to define what words such as "image" mean scripturally, you need to look at them directly in the context they are used in and not what your interpretation of what the word might mean. Nowhere in scripture am I aware that there is a direct reference to the image of God referring to his body parts.

Do we take what Jesus say literally?

Ok, there is the creating Adam in God's image. That seems to point to Adam having a physical resemblance to God.

And I think Jesus said some along the line that "You see me, you see the Father", (sorry, but I don't remember the exact words or where in the gospels it say this), which also indicates that God looks physically human, doesn't it?

Katzpur · Feb 1, 2007

gnostic said:
Do we take what Jesus say literally?

Ok, there is the creating Adam in God's image. That seems to point to Adam having a physical resemblance to God.

And I think Jesus said some along the line that "You see me, you see the Father", (sorry, but I don't remember the exact words or where in the gospels it say this), which also indicates that God looks physically human, doesn't it?

gnostic, I'm trying to understand whether you're just playing the devil's advocate or what. You aren't really saying that you believe God to have a human (or at least "human-looking") form, are you?

xexon · Feb 1, 2007

gnostic said:
Do we take what Jesus say literally?

Ok, there is the creating Adam in God's image. That seems to point to Adam having a physical resemblance to God.

And I think Jesus said some along the line that "You see me, you see the Father", (sorry, but I don't remember the exact words or where in the gospels it say this), which also indicates that God looks physically human, doesn't it?

As God is an abstract idea, religion adorns him with human qualities, for the sake of understanding. This was especially important to the people of ancient times who were largely uneducated.

The bible is written in such a way that it provokes alot of mental imagery, which is what you have to use if you're priest in front of people who cannot read. The story better be good. The imagery had better be good. Or the faithful may find another faith.

This is why we create God in our own image. Not because God looks like us.

x

methylatedghosts · Feb 2, 2007

If we were to imagine God - the all-powerful being we have been speculating about for so long - to have a human form, then we have put a label to God, and we have defined God as having a human form. However, an all-powerful God would have any form he chooses. Thus, by us imagining him as having a human form, we immediately begin eliminate all other forms God could have.

God has no form, and every form. To assume he has one form is to exclude others, and to do that is to limit a limitless God.

Comprehend · Feb 2, 2007

FerventGodSeeker said:
We are never given any indication in the Bible that either the Father or the Holy Spirit were ever Incarnated, only the Son. There is no Biblical reason to assume such a thing.

How about this? Jesus didn't do anything He had not seen His Father do.

John 5:19-20
19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.

Comprehend · Feb 2, 2007

gnostic said:
To everyone:

What about Jesus resurrection, when he appeared before Thomas?

He seemed to be as much "flesh and bone" resurrected than he is spirit. When Thomas touched Jesus he didn't feel spirit, but the physical body of Jesus. I think this happened in John's gospel, the only one that wrote about Thomas' doubt.

If people are resurrected as spirit then why did Jesus appeared before them in the physical body?

How do you explain that?

I think it is excellent evidence that God the Father and Jesus both have physical bodies of flesh and bone. Moses spoke to God face to face as one man speaks to another, Jesus appeared in his resurrected body and ate food, the Father and Son both appeared with physical bodies to Joseph Smith. I am not sure why everyone is so dead set on the idea that God can't have a body.

methylatedghosts · Feb 2, 2007

If people are resurrected as spirit then why did Jesus appeared before them in the physical body?

I'll try explain according to my beliefs

1) People are spirit (soul).
2) The soul is a portion of God.
3) God may have whatever form God chooses
4) Therefore, the soul can have whatever form it chooses.

I believe that God has no form that our minds can comprehend, therefore, a soul (being a part of God) has no form that our minds can comprehend.
Jesus's soul would likely have chosen Jesus's form - one that the apostles could comprehend, and recognise. The soul, being a part of God, can also to all appearances be solid, so would have done just this to make it easier for the apostles to accept.

I had other reasons why, but they've just escaped me for now.....

gnostic · Feb 2, 2007

katzpur said:
gnostic, I'm trying to understand whether you're just playing the devil's advocate or what.

I don't know, katz.

Am I?

I don't think it was my intention to play devil's advocate.

gnostic said:
And I think Jesus said some along the line that "You see me, you see the Father", (sorry, but I don't remember the exact words or where in the gospels it say this), which also indicates that God looks physically human, doesn't it?

Do you (or anyone else) know which verse I am talking about?

All I remember Jesus said something like this, to his disciples.

katzpur said:
You aren't really saying that you believe God to have a human (or at least "human-looking") form, are you?

Do you know the reason why Jesus said this then?

According to Genesis, God made man in his image, then that would suggest he had human form. And then Jesus is supposedly his son, it would stand to reason that he looked like his father, especially when he said, "You see me, you see the Father."
(I am still paraphrasing, until someone can supply me with the proper verse.)

comprehend said:
I think it is excellent evidence that God the Father and Jesus both have physical bodies of flesh and bone.

I don't know if this evidence is real or not, comprehend. Mostly I am speculating from what have been written.

doppelganger · Feb 2, 2007

gnostic said:
Do you (or anyone else) know which verse I am talking about?

All I remember Jesus said something like this, to his disciples.

John 14:9. "Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father."

xexon · Feb 2, 2007

"According to Genesis, God made man in his image, then that would suggest he had human form. And then Jesus is supposedly his son, it would stand to reason that he looked like his father, especially when he said, "You see me, you see the Father."

You've got all the pieces, but you don't have them assembled correctly.

We are made in God's image, not physically, but out of the same spiritual water as God. Each of us are a cup that has been dipped into this water. We are the same, except we have a container wrapped around us.

Jesus is said to be a son because he has full awareness of this connection. There is indeed no difference between what is inside the cup... and what is in the water it was dipped into.

The two are the same. I and my father are one.

x

gnostic · Feb 2, 2007

Thanks, doppelgänger.

It has been some time since I have touch the gospels, and I don't know where to begin to look for it. And I recall that Jesus said something like that.

doppelganger · Feb 2, 2007

We are made in God's image in that we have self-awareness, and have the power to create the Universe by bringing shape to the chaos. How so? By relating and organizing it around our self through thought.

If you have seen the Truth, the Life, and Way (which is love), then you have seen the Father.

sandy whitelinger · Feb 2, 2007

gnostic said:
Ok, there is the creating Adam in God's image. That seems to point to Adam having a physical resemblance to God.

If you read the passage carefully you will find that God, as a plurality (a trinity, at least), created Adam/man to be a plurality, ie. male and female.

Katzpur · Feb 2, 2007

gnostic said:
I don't know, katz. Am I?

I don't think it was my intention to play devil's advocate.

It wasn't an accusation, just a question.

Do you (or anyone else) know which verse I am talking about?

All I remember Jesus said something like this, to his disciples.

Sure, I do.

Do you know the reason why Jesus said this then?

Yes, He said it because it was true.

According to Genesis, God made man in his image, then that would suggest he had human form. And then Jesus is supposedly his son, it would stand to reason that he looked like his father, especially when he said, "You see me, you see the Father."
(I am still paraphrasing, until someone can supply me with the proper verse.)

I don't know if this evidence is real or not, comprehend. Mostly I am speculating from what have been written.

Well, you have just perfectly stated LDS doctrine. I just didn't know if you realized that or not. In all the time I have been posting on this or other religion forums, you are the only non-LDS person I have ever talked to who has been willing to accept -- at face value -- what the Bible says on this subject, instead of trying to re-interpret it to mean something else. I'm impressed by your logic.

Katzpur · Feb 2, 2007

xexon said:
You've got all the pieces, but you don't have them assembled correctly.

No, he not only got all the pieces, he didn't try to fit the square ones into a round hole!

We are made in God's image, not physically, but out of the same spiritual water as God. Each of us are a cup that has been dipped into this water. We are the same, except we have a container wrapped around us.

There is no such thing as a "spiritual image." An image is the representation of physical qualities.

The two are the same. I and my father are one.

Jesus did not say that He and His Father were "the same." He said they were "one." There is more than one meaning for the word "one."

However, if you were right that they are the same -- which you are not -- then the Father would have a body, since Jesus clearly did. The Father would have died on the cross and would have been resurrected three days later. I'm amazed that you don't see the problem with this reasoning.

xexon · Feb 2, 2007

Ahh, the mind at work.

Reasoning, is what the mind likes to do the best. Silly Wabbit.

x

gnostic · Feb 2, 2007

katzpur said:
In all the time I have been posting on this or other religion forums, you are the only non-LDS person I have ever talked to who has been willing to accept -- at face value -- what the Bible says on this subject, instead of trying to re-interpret it to mean something else.

Well, I am trying to understand if I should take what has been said literally and metaphorically. It seemed that Jesus was speaking in the "literal sense".

Since doppelgänger had kindly provided the verse (John 14:9), I was able to look it up, and find out in what context he said it. As I have told doppelgänger, I had not read much of the gospel in a long while, so I only remember part of the conversation that Jesus had with his disciples.

Philip had ask "...show us the Father...."

Jesus did answer directly in the first part of his rely (14:9), but the following verses would most likely confuse Philip and the other disciples even more, when he say that "...I am in the Father and the Father is in me?" I believe that's what Xexon is referring to.

xexon said:
You've got all the pieces, but you don't have them assembled correctly.

katzpur said:
No, he not only got all the pieces, he didn't try to fit the square ones into a round hole!

Give me a car, and then tell me to pull it apart, and I will.

Then order me to put in back reassemble the car, and I will not know where to begin. :shrug:

So don't be surprise if the whole car fall apart on you,

when you turn the ignition.

Xexon said:
Silly Wabbit.

Katzpur is not wabbit. She is a kitty katz. :bkcat:

Is God a spirit?

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