Religions actively employ the cycle of abuse.

infrabenji said:

I thought loving your neighbor was a common tenant among the major religions including Hinduism but I have yet to see it displayed with any efficacy.

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Ha! They have yet to meet my neighbor...

(Sorry, couldn't resist... )

infrabenji said:

I'm not sure what your intention is by holding my feet to the fire and insulting me over my beliefs and wanting to help people.

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So very, very virtuous ...

Vinayaka said:

....

Have you offered up any solutions? .....
I'm interested in discussing solutions for any abuse, but not interested in using it as a reason to bash religion.

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For those leaving Mormonism, there are many resources. The following may be helpful to those who have left other faiths as well:
https://www.daretodoubt.org/resources
Resources - Recovering Agency: Lifting the Veil of Mormon Mind Control
4 Things Everyone Leaving Mormonism Should Know
Faith After Mormonism
Recovery from Mormonism - the Mormon Church
Quitmormon

For those with children who were abused in the Mormon church:
About
for LGBTQ kids: https://www.mamadragons.org/

The above are for those who leave Mormonism, but there are other similar groups and organizations for other cults. There are podcasts, meetup groups, just start googling and you will find them.

That said, anyone leaving a community they have devoted their lives to and entrenched themselves in for long periods of time, it will be difficult to create a new community, define new beliefs, and get used to a new life. There are those who bounce from one unhealthy group to another, like those who bounce from one unhealthy relationship to another... For anyone who has depended on a group to tell them what to wear, what to eat, filled every spare minute with mindless rituals and things to do - just thinking for yourself, and being independent is a struggle. Anyone strong enough to leave, is strong enough to become self-reliant too. Don't look for any support group to be the new "support", the final goal is to learn to support yourself.

Hope that will be helpful, and that others who have left other abusive faiths will add to the resource list.

In human reality governing introduc d all human abuses. The first status a group formed to control all things.

As religion was introduced also.

idea said:

For those leaving Mormonism, there are many resources. The following may be helpful to those who have left other faiths as well:
https://www.daretodoubt.org/resources
Resources - Recovering Agency: Lifting the Veil of Mormon Mind Control
4 Things Everyone Leaving Mormonism Should Know
Faith After Mormonism
Recovery from Mormonism - the Mormon Church
Quitmormon

For those with children who were abused in the Mormon church:
About
for LGBTQ kids: https://www.mamadragons.org/

The above are for those who leave Mormonism, but there are other similar groups and organizations for other cults. There are podcasts, meetup groups, just start googling and you will find them.

That said, anyone leaving a community they have devoted their lives to and entrenched themselves in for long periods of time, it will be difficult to create a new community, define new beliefs, and get used to a new life. There are those who bounce from one unhealthy group to another, like those who bounce from one unhealthy relationship to another... For anyone who has depended on a group to tell them what to wear, what to eat, filled every spare minute with mindless rituals and things to do - just thinking for yourself, and being independent is a struggle. Anyone strong enough to leave, is strong enough to become self-reliant too. Don't look for any support group to be the new "support", the final goal is to learn to support yourself.

Hope that will be helpful, and that others who have left other abusive faiths will add to the resource list.

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As a single self developed human if not for religious ideal I would not have developed my own review.

So the status sacrificed abused human was my status the voice rarely listened to anywhere.

Why it became a human spiritual self owned one of advice. I think the term Jesus represented that advice actually as one abused not listened to human.

And the spiritual healer actually taught that advice pay forward your spiritual assistance as they never charged anyone for their assistance.

How I lived my aware teaching.

Jayhawker Soule said:

So very, very virtuous ...

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I show you courtesy and you return it with mockery. I answered your questions and you cherry pick my statement and use it to insult me. I don't know why you feel the need to attack me but it doesn't bother me. What does bother me is that this is a thread about religious abuse and look at how abusive and petty you have been. Frankly, it's a disturbing how inappropriate your behavior is. I think I've seen enough of your character to understand how low the quality of your life must be.

infrabenji said:

I believe religious people frequently employ the cycle of abuse as a method for indoctrination and inculcating unquestioning devotion. I feel there is a strong parallel between indoctrination and the cycle of abuse. I have confidence that this practice causes emotional, physical, and psychological damage to the victim. I believe the abuse manifests in different forms such as identity loss, guilt syndrome, stygiophobia, death anxiety, sexual repression, compulsivity, self blame, and more. I believe victims often, actively and unknowingly, participate in their own abuse. I also believe these abuses have deleterious long term impacts for the victim and can be correlated to higher levels of depression, anxiety, self deception, denial, somatic concerns, dissociative patterns, etc. Do you agree or disagree that this can be the case? I’d like to hear your thoughts. Thanks in advance for everyone’s insight.

Edit: The generalization is intentional as I perceive it may be a sensitive subject for many religious people. I don’t want to isolate anyone or make any one group feel singled out.

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"This generalization is intentional." IOW you aren't concerned that your sweeping generalization is incorrect, so long as it needles people who are religious. I think that pretty much what trolling is.

IndigoChild5559 said:

"This generalization is intentional." IOW you aren't concerned that your sweeping generalization is incorrect, so long as it needles people who are religious. I think that pretty much what trolling is.

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Please continue reading or ask me to clarify so you understand. Misrepresenting my position for one in which I’m attempting to antagonize religious people is really disheartening. It’s so typical for somebody to walk into a conversation, that is a hundred paragraphs deep, with love thy neighbor as thyself tattooed on their forehead only for them to say something insulting, like accusing me of trolling, with little to no context whatsoever. Wouldn’t asking for clarification instead of telling me what my position is be more in line with your beliefs? It would certainly demonstrate humility, common decency, and respect for others.

infrabenji said:

Please continue reading or ask me to clarify so you understand. Misrepresenting my position for one in which I’m attempting to antagonize religious people is really disheartening. It’s so typical for somebody to walk into a conversation, that is a hundred paragraphs deep, with love thy neighbor as thyself tattooed on their forehead only for them to say something insulting, like accusing me of trolling, with little to no context whatsoever. Wouldn’t asking for clarification instead of telling me what my position is be more in line with your beliefs? It would certainly demonstrate humility, common decency, and respect for others.

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What you say here can be turned around at a few atheists in RF, walking in to a spiritual or religious discussion, starting to ask question that can be seen as personal attack on those who hold a personal spiritual belief. Its same situation.

infrabenji said:

I believe religious people frequently employ the cycle of abuse as a method for indoctrination and inculcating unquestioning devotion. I feel there is a strong parallel between indoctrination and the cycle of abuse. I have confidence that this practice causes emotional, physical, and psychological damage to the victim. I believe the abuse manifests in different forms such as identity loss, guilt syndrome, stygiophobia, death anxiety, sexual repression, compulsivity, self blame, and more. I believe victims often, actively and unknowingly, participate in their own abuse. I also believe these abuses have deleterious long term impacts for the victim and can be correlated to higher levels of depression, anxiety, self deception, denial, somatic concerns, dissociative patterns, etc. Do you agree or disagree that this can be the case? I’d like to hear your thoughts. Thanks in advance for everyone’s insight.

Edit: The generalization is intentional as I perceive it may be a sensitive subject for many religious people. I don’t want to isolate anyone or make any one group feel singled out.

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......just religious people?
You've missed out a huge % of the population.
Try 'Humans'.

Conscious thoughts said:

What you say here can be turned around at a few atheists in RF, walking in to a spiritual or religious discussion, starting to ask question that can be seen as personal attack on those who hold a personal spiritual belief. Its same situation.

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Dude, I almost messaged you to see how you respond to constantly being insulted, having your character called into question, dehumanized, having your position misrepresented, having your intentions misrepresented, having every paragraph cherry picked, not encountering common courtesy or decency across multiple threads by both religious and non religious people alike. No wonder you want to leave the forum. I’ve been here a fraction of the time you have and I feel beat up and broken down already. It seems that’s the goal of people here. See what snarky comment you can leverage against someone with no accountability to ones self or others. I thought this would be a place for intellectual titans, honest and robust discourse, heated but friendly debate. A community of like minded individuals from varied religious and social backgrounds but instead mostly just derision, rude slights, and abusive remarks. I’ve been bending over backwards to bear the insults and accommodate people so I can have a decent conversation looking across and contributing to multiple threads and one only one respectful, polite, and good natured conversation have I had. Thanks trailblazer. I encourage you to look at my comments in this thread and find one example of my participation in this type of negative behavior. You won’t find it but what you will find is a guy who’s been trampled to death by it. I mean for gods sake the thread is about religious abuse and I’m having to plead with people to not be abusive to me or each other. How f’n ironic is that?

infrabenji said:

Dude, I almost messaged you to see how you respond to constantly being insulted, having your character called into question, dehumanized, having your position misrepresented, having your intentions misrepresented, having every paragraph cherry picked, not encountering common courtesy or decency across multiple threads by both religious and non religious people alike. No wonder you want to leave the forum. I’ve been here a fraction of the time you have and I feel beat up and broken down already. It seems that’s the goal of people here. See what snarky comment you can leverage against someone with no accountability to ones self or others. I thought this would be a place for intellectual titans, honest and robust discourse, heated but friendly debate. A community of like minded individuals from varied religious and social backgrounds but instead mostly just derision, rude slights, and abusive remarks. I’ve been bending over backwards to bear the insults and accommodate people so I can have a decent conversation looking across and contributing to multiple threads and one only one respectful, polite, and good natured conversation have I had. Thanks trailblazer. I encourage you to look at my comments in this thread and find one example of my participation in this type of negative behavior. You won’t find it but what you will find is a guy who’s been trampled to death by it. I mean for gods sake the thread is about religious abuse and I’m having to plead with people to not be abusive to me or each other. How f’n ironic is that?

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It look like you and I experience the same but from different point of view or belief, personally I have nothing against you, and of the atheists who are in RF you are one of those who did not create difficulties for me and my belief
But yes as many people tell me, in RF our skin must be hard or thick to survive.

oldbadger said:

......just religious people?
You've missed out a huge % of the population.
Try 'Humans'.

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I totally agree that goes for both religious people and non religious people alike. Though no one is making that argument. The purpose is not to single out any one specific religious group or an individuals beliefs. It is to identify the methods of abuse across disciplines and help people extricate themselves from abuse. Please read more than just the title post of a several hundred paragraph multi layered conversation involving multiple religions so your contribution can be something meaningful that moves the conversation forward. Instead of being the 29th person to walk into the room post the same comment. Let me know if you need clarification. I’ve been trying to have a polite and good natured conversation that benefits more than just myself all day.

infrabenji said:

Dude, I almost messaged you to see how you respond to constantly being insulted, having your character called into question, dehumanized, having your position misrepresented, having your intentions misrepresented, having every paragraph cherry picked, not encountering common courtesy or decency across multiple threads by both religious and non religious people alike. No wonder you want to leave the forum. I’ve been here a fraction of the time you have and I feel beat up and broken down already. It seems that’s the goal of people here. See what snarky comment you can leverage against someone with no accountability to ones self or others. I thought this would be a place for intellectual titans, honest and robust discourse, heated but friendly debate. A community of like minded individuals from varied religious and social backgrounds but instead mostly just derision, rude slights, and abusive remarks. I’ve been bending over backwards to bear the insults and accommodate people so I can have a decent conversation looking across and contributing to multiple threads and one only one respectful, polite, and good natured conversation have I had. Thanks trailblazer. I encourage you to look at my comments in this thread and find one example of my participation in this type of negative behavior. You won’t find it but what you will find is a guy who’s been trampled to death by it. I mean for gods sake the thread is about religious abuse and I’m having to plead with people to not be abusive to me or each other. How f’n ironic is that?

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Its kind of interesting, really. In my beginnings here, I didn't know if I'd stick it out here at RF. I got tired of the poo flinging between theists and atheists. Was it worth it, I thought? I could be doing something else than getting insulted for my worldview...

But I did stick it out. Its interesting to hear that you, as an atheist are kinda feeling that same way(if I'm interpreting it right).

I know it doesn't really match the OP, but it makes me curious why theists and atheists, at least on this platform, have the desire to pick at each other so much. Not all do it, of course, but there's no denying that there's folks on both sides of the fence who think less of those on the other(some do better at masking it than others). I wonder what, if anything, could lead to those individuals sitting down to break bread together, so to speak.

The strong urge to "save" people can make the the well-intended do-gooder as abusive as the people they try to protect the world from.

JustGeorge said:

Its kind of interesting, really. In my beginnings here, I didn't know if I'd stick it out here at RF. I got tired of the poo flinging between theists and atheists. Was it worth it, I thought? I could be doing something else than getting insulted for my worldview...

But I did stick it out. Its interesting to hear that you, as an atheist are kinda feeling that same way(if I'm interpreting it right).

I know it doesn't really match the OP, but it makes me curious why theists and atheists, at least on this platform, have the desire to pick at each other so much. Not all do it, of course, but there's no denying that there's folks on both sides of the fence who think less of those on the other(some do better at masking it than others). I wonder what, if anything, could lead to those individuals sitting down to break bread together, so to speak.

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You are interpreting right. And I needed that. I totally agree. It seems like everyone is out for themselves and only to make themselves feel better by treating others ideas with derision. I would love to see a catalyst that could bring people together for intellectually robust and good natured discourse. You know my best friends in the town I live in are a full blooded Native American with his peoples sacred beliefs, a Muslim who was at university in the West Bank during the first intifada, and a catholic who I volunteer with for the elder benevolence society. We have no problem sharing our ideas and talking about everything from religion to current events to hiking trails. I don’t know why I get along with and am a trusted confidant of these people with their wildly different beliefs but I am and I’m grateful for it. Then I come in here and am accused of false virtue, I’ve had my professional and academic achievements dismissed. Man it’s tough. Why are people not working together to solve problems? What a waste.

infrabenji said:

I totally agree that goes for both religious people and non religious people alike. Though no one is making that argument. The purpose is not to single out any one specific religious group or an individuals beliefs. It is to identify the methods of abuse across disciplines and help people extricate themselves from abuse. Please read more than just the title post of a several hundred paragraph multi layered conversation involving multiple religions so your contribution can be something meaningful that moves the conversation forward. Instead of being the 29th person to walk into the room post the same comment. Let me know if you need clarification. I’ve been trying to have a polite and good natured conversation that benefits more than just myself all day.

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Then do yourself a favor and don't concentrate on religion.
The subject is abuse in general and not limited to religion.

Then start making a list of the general traits and a second list of variations.
Then you can figure out if there is one fits all or if you have use different approaches.

And please don't just concentrate on your local culture. This is an international forum and your culture is not the only one.

infrabenji said:

I believe religious people frequently employ the cycle of abuse as a method for indoctrination and inculcating unquestioning devotion. I feel there is a strong parallel between indoctrination and the cycle of abuse. I have confidence that this practice causes emotional, physical, and psychological damage to the victim. I believe the abuse manifests in different forms such as identity loss, guilt syndrome, stygiophobia, death anxiety, sexual repression, compulsivity, self blame, and more. I believe victims often, actively and unknowingly, participate in their own abuse. I also believe these abuses have deleterious long term impacts for the victim and can be correlated to higher levels of depression, anxiety, self deception, denial, somatic concerns, dissociative patterns, etc. Do you agree or disagree that this can be the case? I’d like to hear your thoughts. Thanks in advance for everyone’s insight.

Edit: The generalization is intentional as I perceive it may be a sensitive subject for many religious people. I don’t want to isolate anyone or make any one group feel singled out.

Click to expand...

Every kind of institution that tries to wield power is guilty of many things. Putting it on religion alone is not very sophisticated.

Anyway, I would like to ask you if you have any research to found your confidence that you spoke of above.

mikkel_the_dane said:

Then do yourself a favor and don't concentrate on religion.
The subject is abuse in general and not limited to religion.

Then start making a list of the general traits and a second list of variations.
Then you can figure out if there is one fits all or if you have use different approaches.

And please don't just concentrate on your local culture. This is an international forum and your culture is not the only one.

Click to expand...

We have many different systems for identifying abuse. A quick google search will tell you that. What you don’t find are religious organizations admitting that widespread abuse occurs and I haven’t found a truly in-depth study. One that crosses disciplines and cultures. There are mechanisms, systems etc. specific to religions that abusers leverage against others. Whether it’s Catholic SA or bilking old ladies for money on TV or throwing a gay person off a building or oppressing women. There are specific abuses with specific causes. Even as we saw today many people can at the very least accept that it is true and in many cases could also name the specific mechanism for the abuse they have observed. Is there an issue with people coming together to combat an endemic problem? You all consider yourselves individually to be intellectual Titans but when it comes down to it most everyone simply attacks each other. The most difficult tasks I’ve had today is getting people to stop insulting each other long enough to cooperate. I have born egregious affronts to my character today by people who don’t know me from god. And the last thing I need is you condescending to me about culture. I have bent over backwards to attempt to have meaningful discourse and all I’ve gotten in return is to have my personal, academic, and professional achievements dismissed off hand as if they are some small feat. Did you know I’m from Oslo? Did you know I spent many years of my life abroad in places such as Bali, Jakarta, Japan, South Korea, Guam, Okinawa, Mexico, Norway, South Africa, Guatemala, America and almost every state in it including Alaska? I have 3 degrees from 2 different universities and an working on my fourth. I’m independently wealthy but not as wealthy as my gorgeous fiancé who’s 15 years younger than me. I live on the oldest continuously inhabited land in America in the coolest house in one of the most highly sought after communities in the entire country. My friends personal beliefs are diverse and include the people of the red willow, Muslims, Catholics, Buddhists, Christians, Atheists, and Agnostics. I even have one messianic friend. We sit in the same room together, eat together, volunteer together, and share without insult to each other, our ideas and respective belief systems. So when you tell me that this is an international forum and my culture isn’t the only one do you mean my culture as a Tiwa, A Balinese, a Japanese, an American, a Norwegian, a Guamanian? What? You know what it doesn’t matter. I’m done with this forum. I thought this would be a fun and fruitful endeavor but it’s so rare that the atheist and even theists of different beliefs alike can’t seem to get through a single statement without insulting each other on this forum. Fortunately, I have a very rich life full of love and all good things. Unlike many of the people on here I can retire away from this forum back to my life and for the better. Raise middle finger. Goodbye and for the best.

firedragon said:

Every kind of institution that tries to wield power is guilty of many things. Putting it on religion alone is not very sophisticated.

Anyway, I would like to ask you if you have any research to found your confidence that you spoke of above.

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Fire dragon how did you become the intellectual giant you are today? You parents must be so proud. Goodbye.