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How do you define evolution?

SkepticThinker

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
YoursTrue said:
Hmm less evidence, I see. Ok. Meantime, I believe germs are there, and have effect upon other things, good or bad. I think and be relieve there are many things we don't know. The history of Louis Pasteur and vaccines is very interesting and I hope to look into that. But it is not the theory of evolution.
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Why do you believe germs are there? Have you seen them? Where's the evidence for these germs?
Why do you accept practically every scientific theory, which is based on the same scientific principles as every one other one, but you reject the scientific theory of evolution, specifically? Especially given that it's the most well-evidenced scientific theory in existence.
 
SkepticThinker

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
YoursTrue said:
I'm not here to discuss the Bible for several reasons. One is that there are things in the Bible hard to understand. And so I'm not about to have a debate about these things here now. There are certain things self evident and I'm not going to argue them. Perhaps on another thread I can mention some things.
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Sorry, I don't buy that. Every time you run into a problem with evolution, you revert to talking about how much you trust what the Bible says. Why? I don't know because you refuse to answer the question.
 
SkepticThinker

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
YoursTrue said:
At least with the germ theory, testing is done, such as vaccines. Where are the tests for evolution? By evolution, please understand I don't mean human interbreeding producing populations with predominantly longer or shorter statures after a while.
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How do you think the delta variant (and others) have come into existence?

Evolution is a change in allele frequencies in populations over time. Do you think that can't be tested?

Allele frequency dynamics in a pedigreed natural population
 
SkepticThinker

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
YoursTrue said:
I didn't ignore anything, but if you can't answer questions about the links you provide other than telling me those that produced the information are experts, forget it. Meantime, from my research, researchers have found no common ancestor of chimpanzees and humans and gorillas, except they think there must be one. If you have another answer, please do say and explain as you say it, thanks.
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Reading from creationist websites isn't the same thing as doing "research."
 
SkepticThinker

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
YoursTrue said:
OK, I dont think scientists are 'that stupid,' but I was recenty looking at a book about magnetism, and wonder how they know these things about electrons going faster or slower, even though they say such things. But they say it, yet I wonder how they know. So I find certain explanations difficult to understand. So -- while I can READ, I also wonder. And then I wonder HOW did it all start? I also wonder what "nothing" is, if there is "nothing" in the universe and etc. I mean how did the electrons get there? They just happened? (Hard to believe that it just happened to happen by some sort of magnetic force without a principle applied by a superior power somehow.) But going back to evolution for a moment, I'll just talk about change of genes, morphing after a looonnnggg time to a different status, such as 4 limbed animals becoming erect and not needing to stand on all fours. Do I believe that it what happened? According to the scientific propossal, that is what they assert happened. But! no one really "knows." After all,no "commion ancestor" is found yet. Not that's integral to the point. Now after I have asked the questions, I think: how did this all come about? Just like that, through what is called nature? And yes--I have concluded that (1) the Bible is not a scientific textbook, and (2) there IS a creator. So maybe I can investigate a few other thoughts as time goes by. Thanks for all the answers, trying to explain to me.
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NanoImage - SNE-4500M Tabletop SEM Scanning Electron Microscope
 
YoursTrue

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
SkepticThinker said:
Reading from creationist websites isn't the same thing as doing "research."
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So you are saying that scientists (those who don't believe in creation, of course) know for sure what is the common ancestor of -- bonobos, humans, gorillas, etc.,? Please do answer, thank you.
 
YoursTrue

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
YoursTrue

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
shunyadragon said:
My post was in high school English with only one or two words you may need a dictionary. Your failure to understand is rooted in your lack of knowledge of science, and a basic unwillingness simply to make an effort to understand science.

The bottomline is no, the dating neolithic and paleolithic humans is not based on dating cave paintings. Yes, dating cave paintings is part of the evidence of the beginnings of paleolithic art forms, which include, carvings, etchings on bone, stone and wood.
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OK, so do viruses remain viruses, or do you have information that they do not remain viruses?
 
Dan From Smithville

Dan From Smithville

Recently discovered my planet of origin.
Staff member
Premium Member
YoursTrue said:
Here's the situation with viruses. Since you're so smart, dont believe in creative forces from a higher source, don't viruses stay viruses? Or what do evolutionists believe?
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There are Americans, Canadians, and Australians, so why are there still Europeans?
 
shunyadragon

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
YoursTrue said:
So you are saying that scientists (those who don't believe in creation, of course) know for sure what is the common ancestor of -- bonobos, humans, gorillas, etc.,? Please do answer, thank you.
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I believe in God and Creation, and of course, by the overwhelming evidence demonstrates beyond any reasonable doubt that ALL evolved from common ancestry of primitive single celled organisms, which developed form organic pre-life chemicals.

It is neither scientists that believe nor not believe in God and Creation, like me virtually 95%+of ALL scientists that support the science of evolution.

Yes, there is abundant paleontological, genetic and geologic evidence that ALL primates including us are descendant from common ancestry,
 
Astrophile

Astrophile

Active Member
YoursTrue said:
So you are saying that scientists (those who don't believe in creation, of course) know for sure what is the common ancestor of -- bonobos, humans, gorillas, etc.,? Please do answer, thank you.
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I have shown you this family tree of the apes several times, and have given you the names of plausible common ancestors of humans, chimpanzees, bonobos and gorillas, namely Orrorin, Sahelanthropus, Ouranopithecus, Chororapithecus, and, farther back in time, Dryopithecus. You can look all of these up on the internet.

Although scientists do not know for sure that any of these are the common ancestor of humans and the other apes, the available evidence at least makes our descent from these animals more plausible than creation of the first pair of humans out of dust. It is the same problem as when an unmarried woman becomes pregnant. We may not know who the father of her child is, but it is more likely that the child has a human father than that it was conceived miraculously.

Would you like to acknowledge this reply, and, if you do not accept it, would you like to present the evidence that none of the animals named above can be the common ancestor of humans, australopithecines, chimpanzees, bonobos, gorillas, etc.?

1280px-Hominoidea_lineage.svg.png
 
YoursTrue

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Astrophile said:
I have shown you this family tree of the apes several times, and have given you the names of plausible common ancestors of humans, chimpanzees, bonobos and gorillas, namely Orrorin, Sahelanthropus, Ouranopithecus, Chororapithecus, and, farther back in time, Dryopithecus. You can look all of these up on the internet.

Although scientists do not know for sure that any of these are the common ancestor of humans and the other apes, the available evidence at least makes our descent from these animals more plausible than creation of the first pair of humans out of dust. It is the same problem as when an unmarried woman becomes pregnant. We may not know who the father of her child is, but it is more likely that the child has a human father than that it was conceived miraculously.

Would you like to acknowledge this reply, and, if you do not accept it, would you like to present the evidence that none of the animals named above can be the common ancestor of humans, australopithecines, chimpanzees, bonobos, gorillas, etc.?

View attachment 53689
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I find it very unusual that no common ancestor of these types (humans, gorillas, chimpanzees, etc.) has been found. With so many outgrowths, it seems unusual that there has been found no definite connection insofar as common ancestry.
I see your argument about creation, but frankly, at this point, I do not contest the idea that man was taken from the soil (or dust, depending on application), and that Eve was taken from his rib. Since I wasn't there -- and because I believe the Bible (not literally in all circumstances, but figuratively if applicable), let me put it this way -- there is no proof that God did not maneuver circumstances to do what He wanted. To be clear, I don't think He makes accidents happen such as a shark attacking a child, for example. And since I believe in a Higher (Intelligent) Power (rather than natural selection, or survival of the fittest), I don't know what God did to form the man from the ground, I do know that He put his life-force in the man, which started him being alive. I am not here to conjecture about how God did it, or what it means exactly in the application. I just know that evolution does really not have the answers as to how life progresses naturally, more or less. Further, I was traveling today and saw a lot of greenery, most of which was in the ground untended by humans. It was rather pretty. But then I came across some beautiful homes. Now I figure someone made those homes. They didn't just come about by themselves, or magnetic force, comparing the trees by the sides of the road and the homes. Someone made the houses.
 
YoursTrue

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
shunyadragon said:
I believe in God and Creation, and of course, by the overwhelming evidence demonstrates beyond any reasonable doubt that ALL evolved from common ancestry of primitive single celled organisms, which developed form organic pre-life chemicals.

It is neither scientists that believe nor not believe in God and Creation, like me virtually 95%+of ALL scientists that support the science of evolution.

Yes, there is abundant paleontological, genetic and geologic evidence that ALL primates including us are descendant from common ancestry,
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The very odd thing is that scientists today are examining the conscience in humans, how, in fact, it got there to the extent it is in humans.
 
Dan From Smithville

Dan From Smithville

Recently discovered my planet of origin.
Staff member
Premium Member
YoursTrue said:
I find it very unusual that no common ancestor of these types (humans, gorillas, chimpanzees, etc.) has been found. With so many outgrowths, it seems unusual that there has been found no definite connection insofar as common ancestry.
I see your argument about creation, but frankly, at this point, I do not contest the idea that man was taken from the soil (or dust, depending on application), and that Eve was taken from his rib. Since I wasn't there -- and because I believe the Bible (not literally in all circumstances, but figuratively if applicable), let me put it this way -- there is no proof that God did not maneuver circumstances to do what He wanted. To be clear, I don't think He makes accidents happen such as a shark attacking a child, for example. And since I believe in a Higher (Intelligent) Power (rather than natural selection, or survival of the fittest), I don't know what God did to form the man from the ground, I do know that He put his life-force in the man, which started him being alive. I am not here to conjecture about how God did it, or what it means exactly in the application. I just know that evolution does really not have the answers as to how life progresses naturally, more or less. Further, I was traveling today and saw a lot of greenery, most of which was in the ground untended by humans. It was rather pretty. But then I came across some beautiful homes. Now I figure someone made those homes. They didn't just come about by themselves, or magnetic force, comparing the trees by the sides of the road and the homes. Someone made the houses.
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Why is that? Do you expect they would have a logo stamped on them?

Congratulations on your discovery that people make houses.
 
shunyadragon

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
YoursTrue said:
The very odd thing is that scientists today are examining the conscience in humans, how, in fact, it got there to the extent it is in humans.
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Yes,they are. I believe God Created and evolved conscience naturally.
 
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ratiocinator

ratiocinator

Lightly seared on the reality grill.
YoursTrue said:
I didn't ignore anything, but if you can't answer questions about the links you provide other than telling me those that produced the information are experts, forget it. Meantime, from my research, researchers have found no common ancestor of chimpanzees and humans and gorillas, except they think there must be one. If you have another answer, please do say and explain as you say it, thanks.
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What questions have I failed to answer?

What do you mean by "finding" the common ancestor? Do you expect a living example, or a particular fossil (both of which would be unrealistic expectations)?

What do you think is wrong with the evidence I've quoted or is there something you don't understand about it? How else do you explain it except by the existence of a common ancestor? Why would the genetic differences between humans a chimps follow the same pattern as mutations that happen amongst humans today?

This is a tiny, tine part of the genetic evidence. And this is exactly how evidence works in science. We ask what we'd expect to see if the hypothesis is true, then look for it. This is exactly what we'd expect to see if chimps and humans diverged from a common ancestor due to the accumulation of mutations.
 
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