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Your Source of Morality

Yazata

Active Member
What is the source of your morality?

It's an interesting and difficult question.

My view is morality is the product of feelings.

Me too. I suspect that's the case for most people. They just kind of intuit that some things are right and other things are wrong. Of course, not everyone's intuitions coincide on particulars. So moral disagreements are difficult to adjudicate when they are based largely on people's feelings.

Feelings are a product of evolution/genetics and culture.

Yes, I agree with that too.

We feel whether something is right or wrong. Evolution has created a commonality based on survivability. So we who have genes that have survived through the ages share much the same feelings about what is right and wrong.

I hypothesize that human beings have a hard-wired set of social instincts that make it easier to get along in small groups. Compassion, solidarity, reciprocity... our ability to "mind read" others and intuit their emotional states. There's obvious evolutionary advantage to living in groups, so social animals very early evolved emotional/behavioral predispositions to facilitate that. We see much the same in other social mammals, so it's probably much older than the appearance of human beings. (I share much of it with my dog.) Some of the dinosaurs appear to have lived in groups, so they probably had some kind of innate proto-ethics too.

The big innovation with humans was probably the appearance of the language instincts and all the cognition associated with that. And I think that more detailed ethical ideas are kind of socially constructed by means of those cognitive processes in some large part by the various societies and cultures in which people live.

However individually exceptions exist. Genetic drift. Cultural norms. I think it is easy to understand that religious leaders took what they felt to be right and wrong as inspired by God since they had no understanding of evolution or genetics. They proceeded to create codes and laws based on what they felt was right. Therefore evolution/survival encoded morality into our DNA.

I doubt very much whether evolution of social instincts can explain the details of our ethics. Evolution can explain feelings of group loyalty and solidarity. That probably worked well in small paleolithic bands linked by blood ties. But what happened when people started gathering in early cities of thousands of people where people encountered total strangers every time they left their home? The old family-based loyalties started to break down.

So we see various things filling the void. We see larger groups of people trying to think of themselves as extended family by imagining mythical ancestors. Today's Jews imagine themselves tied together by blood ancestry back to Abraham. We see ancient Mesopotamian cities whose disseparate inhabitants all felt themselves tied together into one by loyalty to their city's patron god whose symbolic home on Earth was the city's great temple.

Today it's more often loyalty to abstractions. Political ideologies, nations in the modern sense, religions, ethical theories, whatever it happens to be. Those are the places where our ethical intuitions come from.

We may rationalize our morals but ultimately we are still victims of our feelings.

Our rationalizations (which are rarely all that rational) channel our basic feelings of loyalty to our group by defining what kind of group we feel that loyalty to. The Muslim Ummah? One's race? Liberation struggles of whoever (us) against whoever (them)? One's "gender" identity? One's nation?

I suspect that those kind of identifications are inherent in what it means to be human. Idealists can try to eliminate them so as to make everything "global" and everyone exactly the same, an idea that always threatens to become totalitarian when one asks whose values everyone will end up sharing. But I suspect that people will damnably continue to divide up into identity groups regardless.
 
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Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
What is the source of your morality?

My view is morality is the product of feelings. Feelings are a product of evolution/genetics and culture.

We feel whether something is right or wrong. Evolution has created a commonality based on survivability. So we who have genes that have survived through the ages share much the same feelings about what is right and wrong.

However individually exceptions exist. Genetic drift. Cultural norms. I think it is easy to understand that religious leaders took what they felt to be right and wrong as inspired by God since they had no understanding of evolution or genetics. They proceeded to create codes and laws based on what they felt was right. Therefore evolution/survival encoded morality into our DNA.

We may rationalize our morals but ultimately we are still victims of our feelings.
For example, homosexuality is not a survival trait. So people aren't commonly geared to see this as morally good. However we also possess feelings of compassion and group support. These feelings in some outweigh the other but not in everyone.
I believe my morality do come from practice of spiritual teaching, but there are probably a Mix of aspects that made me gold the morality i do.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
I believe my morality do come from practice of spiritual teaching, but there are probably a Mix of aspects that made me gold the morality i do.

I would ask the source of morality for this spiritual practice but assume the answer would be God?
If God though, shouldn't it be universal?
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
I would ask the source of morality for this spiritual practice but assume the answer would be God?
If God though, shouldn't it be universal?
In my understanding, there are multiple different religious scriptures because human beings are different when it comes to spiritual understanding, but for one who choose example Hindu faith, they can learn the same as a Sufi as one example, but the teaching is made different because it is needed to be so. Please do not ask me way, because I might not be able to repay correct.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
For yourself or others?
Seems egotistical to me to assume what others need.

I'm fine with helping when asked.
Generally though I get annoyed when others try to help me. Unless it is very obvious.
Otherwise your implying they are not capable of helping themselves and or taking away the chance for them to actually learn what they are capable of.
It's a definition.
For everybody.
 

Magical Wand

Active Member
What is the source of your morality?

My view is morality is the product of feelings. Feelings are a product of evolution/genetics and culture.

We feel whether something is right or wrong. Evolution has created a commonality based on survivability. So we who have genes that have survived through the ages share much the same feelings about what is right and wrong.

However individually exceptions exist. Genetic drift. Cultural norms. I think it is easy to understand that religious leaders took what they felt to be right and wrong as inspired by God since they had no understanding of evolution or genetics. They proceeded to create codes and laws based on what they felt was right. Therefore evolution/survival encoded morality into our DNA.

We may rationalize our morals but ultimately we are still victims of our feelings.
For example, homosexuality is not a survival trait. So people aren't commonly geared to see this as morally good. However we also possess feelings of compassion and group support. These feelings in some outweigh the other but not in everyone.

Here's a possible objection to your view:

“The conscience doesn’t make us feel bad the way hunger feels bad, or good the way sex feels good. It makes us feel as if we have done something that’s wrong or something that’s right. Guilty or not guilty. It is amazing that a process as amoral and crassly pragmatic as natural selection could design a mental organ that makes us feel as if we’re in touch with higher truth. Truly a shameless ploy” (Wright, The Moral Animal, p.212)

Basically, this guy agrees that evolution is responsible for shaping moral behavior. However, he seems to deny that moral "wrongness" is another feeling. He is arguing we have the illusion that there are objective moral values and duties.

A possible objection that one might raise is that if we can't trust this alleged moral sense, then we can't trust other senses as well, e.g., the sense of vision and hearing. After all, all of them could be illusions as well.

[Edit: I would respond to Wright by pointing out that the feeling of wrongness being different from the feeling of goodness ("good" not in the moral sense) doesn't challenge its status as a feeling. This difference is expected given that they're different kinds of feelings. And I would add that a similarity between ordinary feelings and moral feelings is that they come in degrees. For instance, we may feel very happy, or just happy or we may feel very sad. We may feel something is very beautiful or reasonably beautiful. The same applies to the feeling of moral wrongness. One may feel a certain action is extremely wrong; to the point of being revolted or horrified. So, that's evidence that moral concepts are feelings. Finally, I would say that trying to give this high status -- i.e., to the level of a truth -- to feelings is very common. We do that to beauty as well (we even create competitions to judge who is more beautiful). That extends to other feelings as well: we would be horrified if a daughter who genuinely loved his father started happily singing in the day of his death. It seems a truth that his death is sad.]
 
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