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Will There be Atheists in Heaven

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Will there be atheists in heaven>

Or whichever afterlife your belief/religion envisions?
Good heavens no!

We unbelievers make our own arrangements.

And what sane person would want to live in a theocratic autarchy?
 

Clara Tea

Well-Known Member
Or whichever afterlife your belief/religion envisions? WILL THERE BE ATHEISTS IN HEAVEN?

Is God loving? He allowed his only son to be horribly murdered on a cross. He deprived the world of the goodness of his son (healed the sick, fed the poor). If you don't believe in God nor worship him, he will condemn you to eternal damnation in the fires of hell.

Christians keep perpetuating the myth that God loves. Yet, all of the evidence shows that he does not. God flooded the world, including good people and kids.

Having said this, heaven might not be the "heavenly" place that you think.

For sure, belief in God or Jesus cannot be the only criteria to get into heaven. Because axe murderers, and rapists could easily believe in God/Jesus, and surely it would be wrong to let them into heaven. What kind of heaven would it be if they let in horrible people who never atoned? Hell? Surely atonement is a necessary criteria.

Is anyone sufficiently good to get into heaven? Are people absolved of their sins merely for believing in God?

It seems a fitting end for everyone to be locked up with themselves (or those like them). Mean people would be with other mean people (and that would be hell). Good people would be with other good people, and that would be heaven (if the weather was okay).

Logic dictates that heaven is for good people, so good atheists should have the ability to go there. Furthermore, it would be too cruel for God to keep them out. Yet, the scriptures seem clear on this point.

What if we get to heaven and find that cheating pastors are there (like Reverend Jim Bakker and Tammy Fay Bakker)?

Many people believe that God forgave the Bakkers, yet, likely God did not. How could God allow them into heaven?
 

Clara Tea

Well-Known Member
The afterlife process is not dependent on some theological belief differences while alive. An openness to the spiritual is more helpful though in one's progression.

Some people are afraid of spirits (ghosts). Yet, some psychics have the ability to astral project and even transport to other places. They are among the things that go bump in the night...so they should not fear those with less power.
 

Clara Tea

Well-Known Member
I was about to ask the same question... not sure why I should ever be using "someone else's" standards to judge what I, personally, believe to be right or wrong action. I might defer to "the law" on something I don't necessarily grasp the full magnitude of, but in the end, I will still judge a thing I do understand on its own merits and according to my own idea of what is right or wrong.

What theists don't seem to understand (unsurprising - @Harel13) is that we all take part in this exact thing all the time - making our own determinations of what is right or wrong. "The law" may say one thing, but we make our own judgment on it regardless... such as the legalization or illegalization of alcohol, or the drawing of districts for voting purposes, or "abortion." Only the delusional truly believe that they "defer to God" for any and all moral questions.

Hitler judged his own morality. Nazis cheered Hitler, and they knew, at some point, that Jews were being tortured to death.

Could it be that cheering countrymen should not be the judges of the leaders that they elected?

Isn't there an international (or perhaps inter-universe) standard of morality that all most follow?

Is it right to judge ourselves to be right? Or, should we only earn the right to declare ourselves right by the consent and vote of others?
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Will they remain atheists in heaven?
I do not believe in heaven or hell, or in God or soul. But Hinduism will have no problem with atheists being in heaven. Gettting to stay in heaven or hell depends on the deeds of a person. God cannot deny heaven to a good person whether he/she is a non-Hindu or an atheist. But as someone pointed out, after getting through with Yama (the Lord of death) and staying in a God-created heaven, it will be impossible to deny existence of God.
 

Clara Tea

Well-Known Member
People can be atheists on the earth. In heaven, I don’t see how it would be possible to maintain the belief in God not existing if one is in the very manifest presence of God.

As a Christian, I take the position of Jesus is the only way to heaven( see John 14:6 ).
It is not entirely clear to me whether or not one may be able to turn to God after death.

So, you see a 40 foot human (man made in God's image), does that mean that he created the universe? You still have to accept a lot of facts before you believe (seeing is not believing).
 

Clara Tea

Well-Known Member
I do not believe in heaven or hell, or in God or soul. But Hinduism will have no problem with atheists being in heaven. Gettting to stay in heaven or hell depends on the deeds of a person. God cannot deny heaven to a good person whether he/she is a non-Hindu or an atheist. But as someone pointed out, after getting through with Yama (the Lord of death) and staying in a God-created heaven, it will be impossible to deny existence of God.

I wonder if shattering someone's belief in the afterlife affects our own? Some need faith to cope with tragedies in their lives. It seems cruel to try to take that away.
 

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
Hitler judged his own morality. Nazis cheered Hitler, and they knew, at some point, that Jews were being tortured to death.
And? Is this supposed to be some sort of condemnation of coming to your own conclusions about various subjects? If so... then try again. Hitler made his bed, and then died while a great many hated him. He made what many of us consider wrong choices, and acted in ways that many of us consider immoral. Normally, people like this are taken down much sooner - before they reach the heights of complete control over an entire country. Hence the reason this doesn't happen all that often. I am not sure why you think this disqualifies any of us from coming to our own conclusions on moral questions. Can you please explain? I am pretty sure you cannot.

Could it be that cheering countrymen should not be the judges of the leaders that they elected?
I have oft thought that pride in one's nation just for the sake of being prideful is loyalty and pride misplaced. Your culture is not "you" - your nation is not "you" - it is basically just happenstance, and is as inconsequential to the core of your being as what clothes you are wearing. So yes, I would judge the supportive actions of Hitler's fellow countrymen as foolish and naive. They should be free to judge anyone as they wish, however, and if their actions step over the line onto alienating or destroying the rights of others, then anyone who doesn't like that behavior can and should go and smack them down. Again - what does this say about our capacity to make moral judgments on our own? Had Hitler's countrymen "deferred to God" for judgment of their leader, what do you think God would have told them? Or would they have to go to The Bible for that sort of "advice", do you think? Would they have been able to properly glean some "answer" from the mostly unrelated words they might find there?

Isn't there an international (or perhaps inter-universe) standard of morality that all most follow?
Not at all. That's a pretty preposterous notion. When you say "all," who do you mean? All HUMANS in particular? Please just think about that. Because there are other autonomous, sentient creatures on this planet, and many of them have displayed that they don't give one lick of care about humans. Like rats invading human homes, stealing from them, and even getting people sick. Sharks chomping limbs off of people. Flies desecrating our dead bodies by laying their larva in them and eating away at our decaying flesh. Do you seriously think that "all must follow" some moral dictate that is laid out with humans reaping the greatest benefits and receiving the least detriments? Is this AT ALL how the world or universe appears to work? We decide what is "good" (beneficial) for us and what is "bad" (detrimental) for us. Nothing else cares very much. We're on our own making these decisions. Sure, you can pretend there is some agency out there, pulling the strings - but then you must explain why there are things like parasites, horrible diseases - why you can die by hunger or oxygen deprivation or even lack of sleep.

Is it right to judge ourselves to be right? Or, should we only earn the right to declare ourselves right by the consent and vote of others?
These sorts of systems are all we have. Even The Bible can only be shown to have been WRITTEN BY OTHER PEOPLE - people who apparently wanted to tell us all what to be doing and not be doing. Sure, you can then posit that "God" was the ultimate author - but where is He? We have new and burgeoning moral issues cropping up all the time (like how to treat transgender people), and yet all we have to go by is a thousands of years old text that cannot be updated because "no one has the authority." And yet, do our societies function according to these texts? No... they do not. If you attempted to bring The Bible in as evidence to a court case of any kind, you would be asked to refrain from being an idiot (perhaps not in so many words, but you get the idea - that wouldn't be tolerated or entertained). These texts aren't good enough. They never have been, and they never will be. Hence the reason we continue to discuss any and all moral issues, at length, amongst ourselves... and only the foolish among us point at the books and claim that they contain all the answers.
 

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
I wonder if shattering someone's belief in the afterlife affects our own? Some need faith to cope with tragedies in their lives. It seems cruel to try to take that away.
What about the person who believes that they are the second coming of Christ? Is it cruel to try and explain to them how this likely isn't the case?

I was in a service once where everyone was getting riled up with "the holy spirit," and a man stood up, went to the front of the church, and began speaking in a way that relayed that he was taking on the role of Jesus, a leader, a second-coming. He was promptly grabbed by the arms and dragged out of the church. This man obviously WANTED TO BELIEVE THIS about himself... by your standards, wasn't it "cruel" of the church leaders to deny him this?
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
I meant your moral standards aren't really "moral", because they're subjective. Hence "justice" doesn't truly exist.
So we can't have a concept of justice without an invisible sky wizard beaming it down into our skulls? The notion that superstition is a prerequisite for a sense of fairness is a rather goofy one.
 
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