Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
But how do we even know how effective they are? We don't.
And combined with other questions about side affects we don't fully understand yet...no thanks!
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Young Hillsong Church congregant who mocked vaccine dies of COVID
- Thread starter AlexanderG
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- contradiction faith science
And combined with other questions about side affects we don't fully understand yet...no thanks!
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
It's right in the article you posted.
They account for only 2% of the deaths while a lot more then 2% of the population has been fully vaccinated.
It's not a false sense of security. It's demonstrably increasing security.
Unvaccinated individuals now account for the vast majority of COVID-19 hospitalizations and deaths in the U.S., according to available data - Health Feedback
And they are. Next to being in more danger themselves, they are walking vehicles in which the virus (when infected) has free reign to experiment with new mutations (which might end up making it resistant to the vaccines - which is the worst case scenario as then we are all back to square 1) and from which it can spread a lot more easily.
In a vaccinated person, the 'upgraded' immune system makes sure the vast majority of the time that the virus is subdued quickly and not capable of reproducing exponentially. This makes it harder to spread to other individuals as well as extremely lowers its chances of bumping into a nasty mutation - since it's reproduction rate goes way down.
It doesn't matter.
Other then draconian lock-downs, there isn't much you can do. The virus will spread and infect immense amounts of people. And as we have seen this past year, and continue to see today, even draconian lock downs aren't capable of stopping it. The second you loosen up, rise in infections and hospitalizations follow almost instantly. And 2 to 3 weeks later, we see the result of that in a daily rising death count.
This is a real problem and I don't understand how people such as yourself insist on sticking their heads in the sand in what-i-can-only-call denial.
What kind? The mentioning of facts and stone cold truths?
These are the numbers. Numbers don't lie.
Hospitals are flooded. Excess death compared to pre-corona days is through the roof.
In the US alone, more people have died than during the korean and vietnam war put together.
You don't seem bothered by that at all. Or you are denying it is occuring. I'm not even entirely sure. You're rather vague about it.
ElishaElijah
Return
No you don’t understand correctly, I don’t know anyone who would let any sickness to roam free, this is a ridiculous assumption.
ElishaElijah
Return
To you it doesn’t matter and that’s why your thinking is wrong on this. You’re locked into your own viewpoint and unable to see outside your own box.
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
Two words: Delta Variant.
This makes the case even stronger for mass vaccinations so we can reach herd immunity.
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
So what do you suggest then, if not vaccination?
2 decades of lockdowns and permanent covid wings in hosptials where 1 in 3 people will not leave while walking and unimaginable damage to world economy?
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
We can know how effective they are by studying how effective they are:
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2108891
Effectiveness of Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna Vaccines Against COVID-19
Effectiveness of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine Among
Effectiveness of COVID-19 vaccines against variants of concern, Canada
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
By doing clinical studies, obviously. Which have been done. It's on those studies that clearance was based.
And the gathering of data continues after those studies as well, with much larger samples of real-world data as till data more then 3.5 billion doses of vaccines have already been administered.
We do.
How effective are COVID-19 vaccines in the real-world? | Gavi, the Vaccine Alliance
Nothing has been reported that doesn't fall into the same type of side effects for any other medicine or vaccine.
Wandering Monk
Well-Known Member
How many died after being vaccinated and what's your source for that information?
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
Not to me. To data.
No. You seem to be thinking that what I say is just my opinion.
It's not.
Then tell me, what's the alternative?
Which are this mysterious measures you are talking about which supposedly are better alternatives then massive vaccination to avoid massive deaths while also putting an end to endless lockdowns etc?
ElishaElijah
Return
You’re stuck in your own thinking and appears you here nothing else. I’m not against vaccines, I’m against forced vaccines, calling people dangerous who don’t get vaccinated, I’m not for lockdowns, masks etc. I’m for getting all the treatments readily available to the public.
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
That poster was asking you questions in order for you to clarify your position.
Treatments as in ... vaccines??
That's pretty much what we've got right now.
ElishaElijah
Return
The point I was making was the conflicting information and the confusion that’s caused by this concerning vaccines and other things like masks too. One of those was the article I posted earlier about people dying and getting infected even though they got fully vaccinated. I was saying don’t get the vaccine. I was saying let people choose, are you going to take personal responsibility for someone who is forced to get the vaccine and dies from it or has a bad reaction that causes a lifelong problem? No and that’s another reason to let people make their own life choices.
Wandering Monk
Well-Known Member
Would you trust recommendations from the Mayo Clinic about Covid vaccination?
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
You trust information that comes from someone who is working with the vaccine manufacturers?
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
I'm asking you to clarify your own statements.
I'm literally asking to share so that I actually may hear something else.
But you keep being vague and unwilling to clarify.
But people who aren't vaccinated ARE dangerous.
And getting people to be vaccinated IS the way towards ending lockdowns and masks etc.
At least without massive death as a result....
There currently are no effective treatments for covid.
What we do have, are vaccines.
We Never Know
No Slack
Its amazing how many have made the virus political and base some of their decisions on how much they like or hate a party.
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
And we pointed out to you how you misunderstood that article.
Clearly you don't seem to care.
A lot more people will die as a result of people not being vaccinated.
You keep ignoring that article I linked, where it said that that virtually ALL deaths today in the US are the unvaccinated.
You keep contradicting yourself.
If you are concerned with minimizing death and ending lockdowns and other social restrictions, then max vaccination is the way to do that.
[quoite]
or has a bad reaction that causes a lifelong problem?[/quote]
You could use the same argument for ANY OTHER product meant for consumption out there. Be it vaccines or drinks or food or meds or....
More people die from eating peanuts then people die from getting covid vaccines.
Also, nobody here is arguing to force literally everyone (or ANYONE for that matter) to be vaccinated.
There are set rules around it as well. There are criteria that say which people shouldn't be vaccinated due to whatever criteria that makes it dangerous for them. Like allergies or certain other medical issues etc.
You seem to be arguing a giant strawman while at the same time missing the point entirely.
And people can. I would only hope that people would be responsible enough to make the right decision.
Many clearly aren't, mostly due to sheer ignorance - in some cases willful ignorance.
Aye, I still recall Democrats criticizing "Trump's" vaccine
program. But I don't get Trumpies who now oppose the
very vaccines he pushed. So emotional & political.
ElishaElijah
Return
Virtually all, lol. I’m saying that I’m not going to play God, give people all the information, stop the threats and mandates, divisive language, let people choose. What’s so hard to understand?
Vaccines are now available if you want it, look at any warning labels, consult your doctor and done. That’s all that needed to be said.