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Brian2 said:

So why do the sheep inherit the Kingdom if they are not part of the 144000?

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First, I find the figurative ' sheep ' of Matthew 25:37 are living people on Earth.
Living people here on Earth and are Not in Heaven.
Only dead people can be resurrected to Heaven.
The ' sheep ' inherit the 'earthly part' of God's governing kingdom over Earth.
They have ' flesh and blood' (physical) so they can Not inherit that heavenly kingdom - 1 Corinthians 15:50.
It's ' Thy kingdom come....' Not 'thy kingdom 'go up' to, Not 'thy kingdom 'taken away' to '.
We ask for God's will (His purpose) to be done here on Earth as it is done in Heaven.
In Heaven there are: No wars, No crime, No pollution, No sickness, and No death in Heaven.
So, we are asking for those same excellent heavenly conditions to come and exist right here on planet Earth.
Exist as the conditions existed in the beautiful paradisical Garden of Eden on Earth.
In other words, the majority of people will be here on Earth. An Earth as described in Isaiah 35th chapter.

If we think of Washington, D.C. as Heaven (stop laughing) we know Washington is the 'seat of government'.
Not everyone lives in Washington, but those outside of Washington are governed by Washington.
People 'outside of Heaven' would still be governed by those in Heaven (seat of government in God's kingdom).

URAVIP2ME said:

First, I find the figurative ' sheep ' of Matthew 25:37 are living people on Earth.
Living people here on Earth and are Not in Heaven.
Only dead people can be resurrected to Heaven.
The ' sheep ' inherit the 'earthly part' of God's governing kingdom over Earth.
They have ' flesh and blood' (physical) so they can Not inherit that heavenly kingdom - 1 Corinthians 15:50.
It's ' Thy kingdom come....' Not 'thy kingdom 'go up' to, Not 'thy kingdom 'taken away' to '.
We ask for God's will (His purpose) to be done here on Earth as it is done in Heaven.
In Heaven there are: No wars, No crime, No pollution, No sickness, and No death in Heaven.
So, we are asking for those same excellent heavenly conditions to come and exist right here on planet Earth.
Exist as the conditions existed in the beautiful paradisical Garden of Eden on Earth.
In other words, the majority of people will be here on Earth. An Earth as described in Isaiah 35th chapter.

If we think of Washington, D.C. as Heaven (stop laughing) we know Washington is the 'seat of government'.
Not everyone lives in Washington, but those outside of Washington are governed by Washington.
People 'outside of Heaven' would still be governed by those in Heaven (seat of government in God's kingdom).

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So now you are saying that people on earth are in the Kingdom of God.
That would mean that they have been born again then according to John 3:3,5

Brian2 said:

So now you are saying that people on earth are in the Kingdom of God. That would mean that they have been born again then according to John 3:3,5

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Both are part of God's Kingdom ( the 'little flock' and Jesus 'other sheep' )
Resurrected people who died before Jesus died can be part of God's kingdom /government right here on: Earth.
Remember (John 3:13) No one who died before Jesus was offered Heaven -> Matthew 11:11; Acts 2:34.
Those called to Heaven (John 1:12-13) are called by God's will (born from above) to be resurrected to Heaven.
From above -> John 3:31; John 19:11; James 1:17; James 3:17- as to again be anew, new birth.
Birth that is from above, or meaning from God who is thus from above.
In other words, that 'rebirth' to which Jesus refers to is a spiritual experience for the living ' little flock '.
God's choice Not ours to make as to who is resurrected to Heaven or who can gain eternal life on Earth.
Those called to Heaven gain: spirit life. The others on Earth to: physical life - 1 Corinthians 15:50
Since the 'Kingdom of God' means: government by God - Daniel 2:44, with Jesus being as King of God's Kingdom, who has co-rulers or fellow rulers with Jesus in Heaven - Daniel 7:13-14,18,27; John 14:19.
Jesus and his fellow co-rulers rule or govern over Earth - Revelation 5:9-10; 20:6.
They govern over Earth from Heaven - Luke 8:10; Matthew 13:10-11 for people who will live forever on Earth.
Blessed are the meek who will inherit the Earth - Matthew 5:5; Psalm 37:9-11

URAVIP2ME said:

Both are part of God's Kingdom ( the 'little flock' and Jesus 'other sheep' )
Resurrected people who died before Jesus died can be part of God's kingdom /government right here on: Earth.
Remember (John 3:13) No one who died before Jesus was offered Heaven -> Matthew 11:11; Acts 2:34.
Those called to Heaven (John 1:12-13) are called by God's will (born from above) to be resurrected to Heaven.
From above -> John 3:31; John 19:11; James 1:17; James 3:17- as to again be anew, new birth.
Birth that is from above, or meaning from God who is thus from above.
In other words, that 'rebirth' to which Jesus refers to is a spiritual experience for the living ' little flock '.
God's choice Not ours to make as to who is resurrected to Heaven or who can gain eternal life on Earth.
Those called to Heaven gain: spirit life. The others on Earth to: physical life - 1 Corinthians 15:50
Since the 'Kingdom of God' means: government by God - Daniel 2:44, with Jesus being as King of God's Kingdom, who has co-rulers or fellow rulers with Jesus in Heaven - Daniel 7:13-14,18,27; John 14:19.
Jesus and his fellow co-rulers rule or govern over Earth - Revelation 5:9-10; 20:6.
They govern over Earth from Heaven - Luke 8:10; Matthew 13:10-11 for people who will live forever on Earth.
Blessed are the meek who will inherit the Earth - Matthew 5:5; Psalm 37:9-11

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You use Bible quotes which do not say what you refer to.
The thing is that you are saying that in Matt 25 the great crowd inherits the Kingdom and so is ruling but they are not born again.
That contradicts John 3.
Maybe you are saying that only part of the Great Crowd end up ruling on earth but the passage says that they all inherit the Kingdom.
They have to be born again to be in the Kingdom don't they?

Brian2 said:

You use Bible quotes which do not say what you refer to.
The thing is that you are saying that in Matt 25 the great crowd inherits the Kingdom and so is ruling but they are not born again.That contradicts John 3.
Maybe you are saying that only part of the Great Crowd end up ruling on earth but the passage says that they all inherit the Kingdom. They have to be born again to be in the Kingdom don't they?

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In the BIGGER picture we see more than the living Great Crowd of living people found at Revelation 7:9,14.
In the BIGGER picture we see resurrected people like King David - Please notice Isaiah 32; Ezekiel 34:23-24; Psalms 45:16
They have to be ' resurrected ' yes, in order to be part of the kingdom (thy kingdom come.... )
Not a heavenly resurrection for David (Acts 2:34) nor the ones listed at Hebrews 11:13; Hebrews 11:39.
The living-on-Earth Great Crowd are Not ruling or governing in Heaven because they are on Earth.
The ones governing in Heaven have a heavenly resurrection - 1 Corinthians 15:50; 1 Corinthians 15:1.
Since God does the choosing, He chooses who will be Jesus' 'brothers' in Heaven (Matthew 25:40).
That choosing or calling is because they have a spiritual ' second birth ', so to speak, as born from spirit.
Or, a new birth - John 3:5; John 1:12-13; 1 Peter 1:3; 1 Peter 1:23.

Being in Heaven and receiving salvation on Earth does Not have to mean the same reward.
Sure, the reward of eternal life, but Not all gaining life in Heaven; the majority having life on Earth.
A kingdom is a form of government, God's Kingdom means: Government by God.
Who is King of God's Kingdom but Christ Jesus for a thousand years - 1 Corinthians 15:24-26.
Christ has fellow heavenly rulers or co-rulers - Daniel 7:1; Daniel 7:13-14; Daniel 7:18; Matthew 26:63-64.
They along with Jesus are in Heaven - John 14:19 - the world (Earth) sees Jesus No more.
They rule or govern over Earth ( people living on Earth ) -> Revelation 5:9-10; 20:6
Where is this ' seat of this government ' but in Heaven -> Jerusalem 'above' - Galatians 4:26.
They are co-rulers with heavenly Jesus.
They have two (2) jobs to do:
1 ) they will govern over Earth as kings.
2 ) they will govern over Earth as priests.
As kings they will take care of governmental responsibilities for people living on Earth.
As priests they will take care of spiritual duties towards the people living on Earth.
People like David 'as Prince on Earth' can give the heavenly 'brothers ' a helping governmental hand.

Brian2 said:

So now you are saying that people on earth are in the Kingdom of God. That would mean that they have been born again then according to John 3:3,5

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Interesting that in both verses 3 and 5 John uses the words, " Kingdom of God "
Whereas, at John 18:36 I find Jesus says: My kingdom. (Jesus would be the 'My' person )
God's Kingdom is forever, but Jesus is only King (ruler) of God's Kingdom for a thousand years - 1 Corinthians 15:24-26

So, I would think it would be proper to say that the MY kingdom part is the governing part in Heaven over Earth.
By praying for 'God's kingdom' to come ( thy kingdom come....) we are praying for those same excellent heavenly governmental conditions to come and exist forever here on Earth.
No war in Heaven, No crime, No pollution, No sickness, No graveyards, No death in Heaven.
In other words, God's forever righteous purpose for Heaven be done right here on Earth as it is done forever in Heaven.

URAVIP2ME said:

In the BIGGER picture we see more than the living Great Crowd of living people found at Revelation 7:9,14.
In the BIGGER picture we see resurrected people like King David - Please notice Isaiah 32; Ezekiel 34:23-24; Psalms 45:16
They have to be ' resurrected ' yes, in order to be part of the kingdom (thy kingdom come.... )
Not a heavenly resurrection for David (Acts 2:34) nor the ones listed at Hebrews 11:13; Hebrews 11:39.
The living-on-Earth Great Crowd are Not ruling or governing in Heaven because they are on Earth.
The ones governing in Heaven have a heavenly resurrection - 1 Corinthians 15:50; 1 Corinthians 15:1.
Since God does the choosing, He chooses who will be Jesus' 'brothers' in Heaven (Matthew 25:40).
That choosing or calling is because they have a spiritual ' second birth ', so to speak, as born from spirit.
Or, a new birth - John 3:5; John 1:12-13; 1 Peter 1:3; 1 Peter 1:23.

Being in Heaven and receiving salvation on Earth does Not have to mean the same reward.
Sure, the reward of eternal life, but Not all gaining life in Heaven; the majority having life on Earth.
A kingdom is a form of government, God's Kingdom means: Government by God.
Who is King of God's Kingdom but Christ Jesus for a thousand years - 1 Corinthians 15:24-26.
Christ has fellow heavenly rulers or co-rulers - Daniel 7:1; Daniel 7:13-14; Daniel 7:18; Matthew 26:63-64.
They along with Jesus are in Heaven - John 14:19 - the world (Earth) sees Jesus No more.
They rule or govern over Earth ( people living on Earth ) -> Revelation 5:9-10; 20:6
Where is this ' seat of this government ' but in Heaven -> Jerusalem 'above' - Galatians 4:26.
They are co-rulers with heavenly Jesus.
They have two (2) jobs to do:
1 ) they will govern over Earth as kings.
2 ) they will govern over Earth as priests.
As kings they will take care of governmental responsibilities for people living on Earth.
As priests they will take care of spiritual duties towards the people living on Earth.
People like David 'as Prince on Earth' can give the heavenly 'brothers ' a helping governmental hand.

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I think you are missing my main point.
Those who inherit the Kingdom in Matt 25, those whom you say are the great crowd, must be born again if they are to inherit the Kingdom (John 3),,,,,,,,,,,,,,and they all inherit the Kingdom according to Jesus.
If most of them are not to rule then that would also mean that Kingdom does not necessarily mean a Government.
What does being born again mean for a JW anyway?

URAVIP2ME said:

Interesting that in both verses 3 and 5 John uses the words, " Kingdom of God "
Whereas, at John 18:36 I find Jesus says: My kingdom. (Jesus would be the 'My' person )
God's Kingdom is forever, but Jesus is only King (ruler) of God's Kingdom for a thousand years - 1 Corinthians 15:24-26

So, I would think it would be proper to say that the MY kingdom part is the governing part in Heaven over Earth.
By praying for 'God's kingdom' to come ( thy kingdom come....) we are praying for those same excellent heavenly governmental conditions to come and exist forever here on Earth.
No war in Heaven, No crime, No pollution, No sickness, No graveyards, No death in Heaven.
In other words, God's forever righteous purpose for Heaven be done right here on Earth as it is done forever in Heaven.

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The passages below show us that Jesus dominion is forever.

Daniel 7:14“And to Him was given dominion, Honor, and a kingdom, So that all the peoples, nations, and populations of all languages Might serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion Which will not pass away; And His kingdom is one Which will not be destroyed.

Luke 1:32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, 33 and he will reign over Jacob’s descendants forever; his kingdom will never end.”

Jesus inherits the nations (Psalm 2) and rules the earth.
Jesus is ruler of all of the creation of God. (Rev 3:14, Col 1:15)
"beginning" in Rev 3:14 means first in rank, ruler.
""firstborn" in Col 1:15 means the pre-eminent one. (see also Psalm 89:27 I will indeed appoint him as My firstborn, the highest of the kings of the earth.)
So Jesus was given the throne of David and is also ruler over all of creation.
He hands the Kingdom back to His God and Father but He still rules.

Brian2 said:

.....What does being born again mean for a JW anyway?

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- WWW.JW.ORG

URAVIP2ME said:

- WWW.JW.ORG

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I can see what JWs mean by being born again.
You still avoid the main points.
All the great crowd of Matt 25 need to have been born again to inherit the Kingdom.
When it comes to being born again the scriptures show that all believers are born again.
I cannot see why you say that only the 144000 are born again.
I see no scriptures that say that, and I see scriptures that say that all believers are born again.
Also I see no scriptures that qualify some for going to heaven and not others.
If you want to say that some New Testament passages are meant for the 144000 only then that would change things. But who has decided that some passages are written for the 144000 only?
And who has decided that when the New Testament says things like 1John 5:1, that it does not mean what it says?
1John 5:1Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father also loves those born of Him.

Brian2 said:

I can see what JWs mean by being born again.............
All the great crowd of Matt 25 need to have been born again to inherit the Kingdom.
When it comes to being born again the scriptures show that all believers are born again.
I cannot see why you say that only the 144000 are born again.............

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The great crowd of Matt 25; Rev. 7:9,14 are living people.
I think you remember 1 Corinthians 15:50 that ' flesh ' (aka physical) can Not inherit the kingdom.....
That leaves out or eliminates living people on Earth.
The living 'sheep' of Matt 25 are Not Jesus ' brothers' of Matthew 25:40.
The figurative 'sheep / Great Crowd' (living physical people) remain alive on Earth.
I've always liked living right here on terra firma and want to stay here on Earth.
Or, as Jesus promised that there would be people who will inherit the Earth - Matt 5:5; Psalms 37:9-11.
Also, No one who died before Jesus was offered heaven - John 3:13; Acts 2:34; Hebrews 11:13; Hebrews 11:39

To me those called to be 'resurrected to heaven' are the ones called like the people of Luke 22:28-30.
They are like the people talked about at Daniel 7:18; Daniel 7:22; Daniel 7:27.
These 'saints/holy ones' (Not angels) are the ones who rule or govern with Christ - Revelation 20:4; 2:10; 5:9-10.
Govern over earthly subjects/citizens from sea to sea of God's kingdom - Psalms 72:8; Psalms 72:12-14
Thus, the majority of people will reside right here on Earth.
Jesus with 'resurrected chosen ones' of Revelation 17:14 B will be with Jesus at the time of Revelation 19:14.
They (*Jesus/ *chosen ones/ and *angels) will come to the rescue of the ' great crowd ' who are living on Earth.

Brian2 said:

..........And who has decided that when the New Testament says things like 1John 5:1, that it does not mean what it says?
1John 5:1Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father also loves those born of Him.

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I find at 1 John 3:1-2 that John is addressing those called as Children of God.
Children by adoption - Ephesians 1:5 - according to God's will/purpose.
Adoption as ' sons ' - Romans 8:15.
Thus, such an adoption would make those sons as being Jesus' brothers. ( the brothers of Matthew 25:40 )
So, the ' everyone ' of 1 John 5:1-2 is first for those adopted sons ( aka Jesus' brothers )
John was writing foremost to his fellow ' brothers ' -> heavenly brothers adopted as sons, Jesus' brothers.
With the rest of us being part of the ' brotherhood ' right here on Earth.
Or, as some say the ' brotherhood of man '.

URAVIP2ME said:

I find at 1 John 3:1-2 that John is addressing those called as Children of God.
Children by adoption - Ephesians 1:5 - according to God's will/purpose.
Adoption as ' sons ' - Romans 8:15.
Thus, such an adoption would make those sons as being Jesus' brothers. ( the brothers of Matthew 25:40 )
So, the ' everyone ' of 1 John 5:1-2 is first for those adopted sons ( aka Jesus' brothers )
John was writing foremost to his fellow ' brothers ' -> heavenly brothers adopted as sons, Jesus' brothers.
With the rest of us being part of the ' brotherhood ' right here on Earth.
Or, as some say the ' brotherhood of man '.

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A problem I have with all that is the lack of Biblical evidence for a group of Christians who go to heaven while the rest stay on earth. It seems like an interpretation that as well as lacking evidence, forces the JW to deny other parts of the Bible (such as the heavenly New Jerusalem coming down to earth and that everyone who believes Jesus is the Christ is born again along with other denials. Added to this is the necessity for the JW to say that much or most of the New Testament is written for the anointed class when there is no evidence of this.
Of course there is still the problem of the sheep in Matt 25 inheriting the Kingdom and so the need for them to be born again.
And there is the question of just who the sheep of Matt 25 are. Where does it say that they or some of them are Christians?
To make the Bible more consistent wouldn't it be better to see these sheep as all people who are judged to be righteous and given mercy by God but who never believed Jesus is the Christ, as all Christians do and so have already been born again?
A question about being born again (born of God or of the Spirit).
What does the following verse mean for a JW?
John 3:6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.

URAVIP2ME said:

The great crowd of Matt 25; Rev. 7:9,14 are living people.
I think you remember 1 Corinthians 15:50 that ' flesh ' (aka physical) can Not inherit the kingdom.....
That leaves out or eliminates living people on Earth.

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Not addressing 1Cor 15:50 at the moment, maybe later.
I do notice however that there is an assumption that the sheep who inherit the Kingdom are not born of God, as they would have to be if they inherit the Kingdom.

URAVIP2ME said:

The living 'sheep' of Matt 25 are Not Jesus ' brothers' of Matthew 25:40.
The figurative 'sheep / Great Crowd' (living physical people) remain alive on Earth.
I've always liked living right here on terra firma and want to stay here on Earth.
Or, as Jesus promised that there would be people who will inherit the Earth - Matt 5:5; Psalms 37:9-11.
Also, No one who died before Jesus was offered heaven - John 3:13; Acts 2:34; Hebrews 11:13; Hebrews 11:39

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I agree that nobody but believers in Jesus the Christ get born again. That does not mean that people cannot get born again at the judgement and live on earth being born again.
I see no place where people are offered heaven. I could be wrong, where is heaven offered to anyone?
I notice this one, but it is for the righteous in the OT, and the city they get is no doubt the one that comes down out of heaven, the heavenly New Jerusalem, where God and the Lamb will be with all their people Rev 21 tells us. (If Jesus is going to be there, where are the 144000 going to be> With Him.) The nations will walk by it's light and the Kings of the nations will bring their splendour to it.
Who are the ones in the New Jerusalem, Christians and the righteous from the OT maybe.
Who are the ones of the nations in the rest of the earth? Those who are considered meek from mankind who never became Christians, the sheep of Matt 25 maybe.
Heb 11:13 All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance, admitting that they were foreigners and strangers on earth. 14 People who say such things show that they are looking for a country of their own. 15 If they had been thinking of the country they had left, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 Instead, they were longing for a better country—a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them.

URAVIP2ME said:

To me those called to be 'resurrected to heaven' are the ones called like the people of Luke 22:28-30.
They are like the people talked about at Daniel 7:18; Daniel 7:22; Daniel 7:27.
These 'saints/holy ones' (Not angels) are the ones who rule or govern with Christ - Revelation 20:4; 2:10; 5:9-10.
Govern over earthly subjects/citizens from sea to sea of God's kingdom - Psalms 72:8; Psalms 72:12-14
Thus, the majority of people will reside right here on Earth.
Jesus with 'resurrected chosen ones' of Revelation 17:14 B will be with Jesus at the time of Revelation 19:14.
They (*Jesus/ *chosen ones/ and *angels) will come to the rescue of the ' great crowd ' who are living on Earth.

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Where does it say that anyone is resurrected to heaven. All Christians have been bought from the earth with the blood of Jesus.
Those of Rev 20:4 seem to come out of the great tribulation and Rev 5:9-10 does not say that those that these people are a group set aside.
Also you seem to have 2 definitions of "Kingdom", one meaning a government and other meaning a realm over which a government rules. Why is this and who decides what definition is used in which place in the Bible?

Brian2 said:

Not addressing 1 Corinthians 15:50 at the moment, maybe later.
I do notice however that there is an assumption that the sheep who inherit the Kingdom are not born of God, as they would have to be if they inherit the Kingdom.......................................................................................................
Also you seem to have 2 definitions of "Kingdom", one meaning a government and other meaning a realm over which a government rules. Why is this and who decides what definition is used in which place in the Bible?

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There is No assumption because the ' sheep' do good to Jesus' brothers of Matthew 25:40
Jesus' brothers aka the ' little flock ' whereas the 'sheep' of Matthew 25:37 being part of the ' other sheep '.
- Luke 12:32; Luke 22:38-30; John 10:16. 'Other sheep' to include King David - Ezekiel 37:24; Acts 2:34

The Kingdom of Jordan is both a land area and a kingdom government over that land area.

We ask for God's Kingdom to come.........
Come from where but to come to govern over Earth with Jesus as King of God's Kingdom - 1 Corinthians 15:24-26
Jesus to have earthly subjects or citizens as found at Psalms 72:8; Psalms 72:12-14.
Jesus is already the now governing Head over the Christian congregation.

Brian2 said:

......................................
John 3:6 yes, flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.

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Yes, flesh (physical) gives birth to the fleshly /physical person.
When God sends forth His spirit (Psalms 104:30) His spirit accomplishes His will / purpose.
A fleshly person can become a spiritual person - Galatians 5:22-23; Philippians 4:8
ALL flesh can see salvation (Luke 3:6) includes both the 'little flock' and the 'other sheep'.
Flesh (like the sheep of Matthew 25:37) receive a fleshly human inheritance on Earth.
Whereas, Jesus' brothers (Matthew 25:40) receive a spirit resurrection of Revelation 20:6.
It is God's choice who will govern with Jesus ( his resurrected spirit brothers ) - Revelation 5:9-10
They do Not govern over themselves, but serve as kings and priests with Christ for a thousand years over Earth.
As kings they will take care of governmental responsibilities for people living on Earth.
As priests they will take care of spiritual duties towards people living on Earth.

URAVIP2ME said:

There is No assumption because the ' sheep' do good to Jesus' brothers of Matthew 25:40
Jesus' brothers aka the ' little flock ' whereas the 'sheep' of Matthew 25:37 being part of the ' other sheep '.
- Luke 12:32; Luke 22:38-30; John 10:16. 'Other sheep' to include King David - Ezekiel 37:24; Acts 2:34

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The assumption is that the sheep of Matt 25 who will inherit the Kingdom are not going to be born again. But to inherit the Kingdom you need to be born again. Everyone who is saved therefore is born again.
The "other sheep" in context are those from the nations who were not Jews. (John 10:16)
The "little flock" (Luke 12:32) is given the Kingdom just as the sheep of Matt:25 is given the Kingdom.
Everyone who is saved is in the Kingdom,,,,,,,,,,,,and so must at some point be born again.
Even if the sheep of Matt 25 have never been born again in this life they must be born again to inherit the Kingdom.

URAVIP2ME said:

The Kingdom of Jordan is both a land area and a kingdom government over that land area.

We ask for God's Kingdom to come.........
Come from where but to come to govern over Earth with Jesus as King of God's Kingdom - 1 Corinthians 15:24-26
Jesus to have earthly subjects or citizens as found at Psalms 72:8; Psalms 72:12-14.
Jesus is already the now governing Head over the Christian congregation.

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Jesus has been Lord of Christians since 2000 years ago.
Jesus has had all power and authority since 2000 years ago.
Jesus has been reigning since 2000 years ago and 1Cor 15:24-26 implies that and He reigns till after the judgement and then the head place is given back to the Father, but Jesus still reigns forever on the throne of David (Luke 1:32,33)
The Kingdom now is back in the hands of God and Jesus is also ruling with His Father and that is because Jesus is Yahweh also,,,,,,,,,,,,,He has the name which is above all names (Phil 2:9) and that name He inherits from His Father (Heb 1:3,4)
Zech 14:8 And on that day living water will flow out from Jerusalem, half of it toward the Eastern Sea and the other half toward the Western Sea, in summer and winter alike. 9 On that day the LORD will become King over all the earth— the LORD alone, and His name alone. 10 All the land from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem will be turned into a plain, but Jerusalem will be raised up and will remain in her place, from the Benjamin Gate to the site of the First Gate to the Corner Gate, and from the Tower of Hananel to the royal winepresses.…
(Notice how Jerusalem is going to be raised up, it is as if the New Jerusalem will be floating above the earth.)

And it is the Son who inherits the nations (Psalm 2) (also see Psalm 82 where it says Yahweh inherits the nations)
Isn't Zech 14:9 showing us that the Lord alone includes the Father and Son, just as Isa 44:24 compared to Heb 1:10 shows us that Jesus is Yahweh and Psalm 96:13 compared to John 5:22,23 shows us that the Son is Yahweh together with the Father.
But yes the Kingdom is a realm over which the King rules.
So who decides when Kingdom means the realm and when it means Government in the Bible and who has decided that the Bible means that only 144000 will be in the Government and that this number is not symbolic like most of Revelation?

URAVIP2ME said:

Yes, flesh (physical) gives birth to the fleshly /physical person.
When God sends forth His spirit (Psalms 104:30) His spirit accomplishes His will / purpose.
A fleshly person can become a spiritual person - Galatians 5:22-23; Philippians 4:8
ALL flesh can see salvation (Luke 3:6) includes both the 'little flock' and the 'other sheep'.
Flesh (like the sheep of Matthew 25:37) receive a fleshly human inheritance on Earth.
Whereas, Jesus' brothers (Matthew 25:40) receive a spirit resurrection of Revelation 20:6.
It is God's choice who will govern with Jesus ( his resurrected spirit brothers ) - Revelation 5:9-10
They do Not govern over themselves, but serve as kings and priests with Christ for a thousand years over Earth.
As kings they will take care of governmental responsibilities for people living on Earth.
As priests they will take care of spiritual duties towards people living on Earth.

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Who has decided that Rev 20:6 does not apply to all Christians? and who has decided that the ones in the first resurrection receive a spirit resurrection? Where does the Bible tell us about 2 types of resurrection for Christians?
Who made Rev 5:9-10 about a special anointed class? Where does it tell us that in the Bible?
Luke 2:28-32 Simeon took him in his arms and praised God, saying: “Sovereign Lord, as you have promised, you may now dismiss your servant in peace. For my eyes have seen your salvation, which you have prepared in the sight of all nations: a light for revelation to the Gentiles, and the glory of your people Israel.”
Doesn't seeing the salvation of the Lord refer to all flesh seeing Jesus. (as in Rev 1:7)

John 3:5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh is born of flesh, but spirit is born of the Spirit.

It is good to see that you think that someone who is born again is born again in this life.
Yet a person born again in this life does not become a spirit in this life.
Isn't it more sensible to see John 3:6 as saying that our spirit is born of the Spirit in this life.
1Cor 6:17 But he who is joined to the Lord becomes one spirit with him.
It is a bit like the Spirit of Christ is guiding us all who are in the body of Christ.
It is a bit like we are all one together with Christ, just as a husband and wife become one flesh.(1Cor 6:16)
The Holy Spirit communes with us through our spirit (Romans 8:16) and we see God as our Father.
Don't tell me you don't see God as your Father.
And don't tell me that our spirit is no more than a life force. Our spirit knows our mind, just as God's Spirit knows His mind. (1Cor 2:11)
At the resurrection our body is redeemed and adopted also and changed into a spiritual body (not a spirit but a spiritual body, (one that is incorruptible and immortal and can be controlled by our spirit.)(Romans 8:23)

SigurdReginson said:

It seems like every religion or spiritual path gives credence to time honored tradition. Within many denominations of Christianity, much emphasis is placed on the early Christians and what they believed. In many branches of paganism, reconstructionists want to try and emulate the practices of historical pagans as much as the evidence left behind sheds light on. In salafism (a sect within Islam), the name derives from advocating a return to the traditions of the "ancestors" (salaf). I could keep going, but I hope you understand what I'm driving at.

Why do we give such credence to people who lived thousands of years before we did? We can only guess at what their lives were like so long ago, but still we try. Is it because they lived in a time that was closer to when these special events happened in our religious beliefs? Is it because their ways were more pure than what we understand now? Did they have some kind of special understanding that we don't have today?

Ultimately, these were people that lived in the distant past... They don't have the advantage of hindsight or accumulated knowledge like we have now. What makes their ways something to be sought after or seem more desirable than what we can take advantage of now?

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I can't speak to why a neo-pagan would wish to recreate a religion that died out. That makes no sense to me.

As a Jew, why do I value the Torah from millenia ago? It's a badly worded question. The truth is that what we have today is far more than the foundational Torah. We also have the Prophets and the Writings. We have the Oral Torah, as written down in the Talmud. We have the writings of the sages. We have Jewish scholars today who add to our understanding. That means what we have is wisdom that has been DISTILLED over time. That's incredibly valuable. Not only does it mean we don't have to reinvent the wheel every generation, but we can build on what came before to go much farther than the wheel.

SigurdReginson said:

In many branches of paganism, reconstructionists want to try and emulate the practices of historical pagans as much as the evidence left behind sheds light on.

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Well, if we don't look to the ancients, what should we do? Just make it up? Some seem fine with that, but others of us want something authentic. I mean, we would literally know nothing about these religions if we don't look to their pre-Christian/pre-Islamic beliefs and practices.